Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna

[Flybabe]

Same here - 8 hrs flight, 14 hrs duty.

[NWONT]

When the OMNR put their Twin Otters on Whipline amphib water-bombing floats it was a bit of a learning curve for everyone. I wasn't all that long before one of the boys landed on the runway gearup. The aircraft slid to a halt and was picked up with a crane and the gear was lowered. No harm done, just a little aluminum and paint wear. One of the other pilots remarked " that pilot should be fired on the spot, there is no excuse for this". Well about ten days later guess who lands gear up, you guessed it, only this time Mr Superpilot pours the power to it trying to get back in the air. Didn't get airborn again but much more damage. Be careful what you say Doc, you may have to eat your words one day.

[mag check]

When the OMNR put their Twin Otters on Whipline amphib water-bombing floats it was a bit of a learning curve for everyone. I wasn't all that long before one of the boys landed on the runway gearup. The aircraft slid to a halt and was picked up with a crane and the gear was lowered. No harm done, just a little aluminum and paint wear. One of the other pilots remarked " that pilot should be fired on the spot, there is no excuse for this". Well about ten days later guess who lands gear up, you guessed it, only this time Mr Superpilot pours the power to it trying to get back in the air. Didn't get airborn again but much more damage. Be careful what you say Doc, you may have to eat your words one day.

You mention those two, but don't mention the one they put in the lake with the gear down?

[CLguy]

One....... better check your addition!!!

[NWONT]

Sorry, CL-guy, he's right, its two.

[NWONT]

Damn, I'm wrong again and my addition is getting as bad as my memory.

[Driving Rain]

You mention those two, but don't mention the one they put in the lake with the gear down?

They put a Maule and Turbo Beaver in with the gear down. The Twin Otter opened it's bomb doors while on the water and flipped. Mitigating factor was an unguarded bomb button located next to the probe retract button. The mistake here being the pilot left the bomb system armed.

[CLguy]

You mention those two, but don't mention the one they put in the lake with the gear down?

This is the comment I was responding to!!!!!!!! Lets not forget Pembroke!!!

[Rowdy]

I can see calling a king air driver who lands with the wheels up without any mechanical issues a moron, but a guy driving amphibs, thats a complete different story.. Shit can go wrong fast...

Saw some firebosses in dubrovnik 2 days ago...

[firedog]

yes, he was terminated on friday

[Driving Rain]

yes, he was terminated on friday

Hate to hear that. I thought ConAir had a great SMS in place. One things for sure he'd never ever do it again but I guess rope is cheaper.

[Flying Nutcracker]

yes, he was terminated on friday

Hate to hear that. I thought ConAir had a great SMS in place. One things for sure he'd never ever do it again but I guess rope is cheaper.

I think SMS has spoken... cause and risk potential removed.

Rowdy... I don't see it!

[Cat Driver]

I think SMS has spoken... cause and risk potential removed.

Therefore we are to understand from this that said pilot had a history of high risk potential, and or other accidents that were avoidable?

[Driving Rain]

I think SMS has spoken... cause and risk potential removed.

Not really. They're still exposed because they have to replace him.

[MichaelP]

. I think you might see where I'm coming from when it's the choice between amphibs and straight floats, complicated and uncomplicated.

You need to highly aware, and awake, when you fly amphibious aircraft. There's no forgiveness.

[Cat Driver]

You need to highly aware, and awake, when you fly amphibious aircraft. There's no forgiveness.

They don't fly any different than any other sea plane.

It is when you land them you have to be wide awake.

[Flying Nutcracker]

I think SMS has spoken... cause and risk potential removed.

Therefore we are to understand from this that said pilot had a history of high risk potential, and or other accidents that were avoidable?

A bit of tongue in cheek there, Cat! It seems these kind of things have a one-strike clause... No matter how simplex or complex of an operation you are involved in there seems to be certain things you simply cannot excuse. Be it a King Air or an amphibious, one flight a day or 8 hours on a fire, as pilots we are still responsible for the safe operation of the equipment we are flying. I have no experience with the waterbombing way of life, but it seems from all the comments made there is a certain expectation of performance that outweights personal limitation. Just an observational observation... This does not excuse anyone.

As I said before, I have the utmost respect for the fire suppression industry and I am awed by their work, but safety and safe operation of the aircraft is still the number one priority! Even when it comes to the pure basic operation of said aircraft.

I think SMS has spoken... cause and risk potential removed.

Not really. They're still exposed because they have to replace him.

And with this I fully agree!

[Cat Driver]

A bit of tongue in cheek there, Cat! It seems these kind of things have a one-strike clause...

If there is a one strike clause in these wrong gear position selections how many of the gear up accidents with land planes result in the crew being fired?

[Flying Nutcracker]

I honestly don't know. I was just referring to what has been discussed in the one King Air and this waterbomber accident. So for all I know I can be wrong in my statements as I really and truly don't have all the facts... It's just my Sunday entertainment!

[Cat Driver]

[Widow]

Doesn't having an accident affect the pilot's insurability/cost of insurance? viewtopic.php?f=54&t=56659

[flyinthebug]

A bit of tongue in cheek there, Cat! It seems these kind of things have a one-strike clause...

If there is a one strike clause in these wrong gear position selections how many of the gear up accidents with land planes result in the crew being fired?

The two gear ups ive been even remotely associated to, both resulted in the pilots termination. That has been my exposure to land plane gear ups.
FYI.. I strongly disagreed with 1 of the 2 terminations.

Fly safe all.

[privateer]

Just on a different note, where are the Mars Water Bombers in all of this?

[SeptRepair]

One is floating in a lake in California under contract to the USFS and the other is sitting on shore out of annual, one engine removed, all props removed for inspection, and the airframe needing some structural work. I would love to say more.

[Just One]

It's very unfortunate, but shows it could happen to anyone. The big difference between comparing a landplane landing mistake and an amphib is that the landplane ALWAYS lands gear DOWN, where the amphib sometimes lands gear down (land) and sometimes gear up (water). Considering pilot workload including single-pilot, off airport, fire ops etc., it is a very busy time and mistakes happen. Firing the pilot is a poor decision, IMO. I seems shortsighted of a company to turn its back and lose an experienced pilot due to a mistake. If there was a pattern of mistakes, that's a different story.

I have several years in amphibs, and religiously call 'up for water' or 'down for runway' on approach, as well as calling the gear position via radio to Company. In most gear errors, it's usually a minor distraction (or several) that takes the concentration away from normal ops, and without a reminder prior to touchdown, a little mistake is a big problem. I was always thankful when a pilot transitioning to amphibs would forget the gear during training, (and many did no matter how many times they swore they wouldn't) as it proved the lesson under supervision. I was more at ease seeing and correcting their mistake (and reminding them endlessly ), than leaving them with the thought that they were immune to the possibility.