Liberals Vow to Cancel Jet Fighter Project

[shitdisturber]

I believe we opted for the conventional takeoff models. correct me if I'm wrong.

You're not wrong.

[crankedup]

Why does Canada need fighter jets at all? Really, I'm serious here. I'm not just trying to evoke some sort of emotional set of rebukes for my ignorance in the subject. I just have no idea what Canada needs fighter jets for at all. Yes I recall when we had some jets in Qatar during the first Gulf conflict. But that is no reason to spend so much money on something we don't really need.

Can anyone enlighten me?

[modi13]

Why does Canada need fighter jets at all? Really, I'm serious here. I'm not just trying to evoke some sort of emotional set of rebukes for my ignorance in the subject. I just have no idea what Canada needs fighter jets for at all. Yes I recall when we had some jets in Qatar during the first Gulf conflict. But that is no reason to spend so much money on something we don't really need.

Can anyone enlighten me?

Because who's to say that we won't need them in five years? Can you imagine trying to procure Fifth Generation fighters in a matter of weeks because of an impending conflict? Just because we aren't at risk of immediate invasion now doesn't mean we won't be in a decade or two, or that we won't require them for a NATO or UN mission; the F-18s could have easily provided close support to our troops in Afghanistan. The state of our military prior to the First and Second World Wars and the war in Afghanistan demonstrates that we need to be prepared for any eventuality, and if we aren't our soldiers, sailors and airmen will be left with insufficient quantities of outdated and largely useless equipment. I know from first-hand experience just how poor quality the CF's equipment was post-9/11, and how long it took before adequate gear was finally provided (something as simple as desert camouflage took years to procure, so imagine the difficulties of buying jets on short notice).

[crankedup]

You make some good points which I had not considered.

Thanks.

[linecrew]

should we really be following the leader with the arms build up?

We're replacing 80 jets with 65. Sure they're more advanced and reliable aircraft, but that's hardly an arms build up. I'd call it staying up-to-date. Sorta like replacing your Pontiac Fiero with a Saturn Sky.

I think that the advantage is in the fact that the systems onboard will be in line with those of other nations using the same aircraft type or at least same advanced communications capability. I was told that they can "talk" to each other creating a more harmonized effort with our allies in a conflict. The CF-18s are sort of lone wolves out there compared to the F-35s in this context. So less numbers that Canada acquires doesn't necessarily mean less of a deterrent depending on the mission.

[albertdesalvo]

Why does Canada need fighter jets at all? Can anyone enlighten me?

If for no other reason, we need them for our commitment to NATO.

[sigmet77]

I like the F35 and am not a big fan of the liberals, but since there is no deal signed my Mr. Harper should look at the Eurofighter. Why you ask? Because it is kickass cool and that's good enough.

[Tubthumper]

+1!

With the UK going thru massive $$ problems, they'd be happy to sell to us. But, Canada has already sunk a lot of $$ into this program already. Not sure why, we've had no interest in single engine fighters since the F-104, and rightfully so. My vote would be for the F-15 Silent Eagle with the FAST packs/conformal weapons bay! The F-15 has double the range of any F-18, old or Super.


Remember the Liberals will vow to cancel anything. Except the Gun Registry, the census....etc.....

[Mrs.Robinson]

Why does Canada need fighter jets at all? Really, I'm serious here. I'm not just trying to evoke some sort of emotional set of rebukes for my ignorance in the subject. I just have no idea what Canada needs fighter jets for at all. Yes I recall when we had some jets in Qatar during the first Gulf conflict. But that is no reason to spend so much money on something we don't really need.

Can anyone enlighten me?

Because who's to say that we won't need them in five years? Can you imagine trying to procure Fifth Generation fighters in a matter of weeks because of an impending conflict? Just because we aren't at risk of immediate invasion now doesn't mean we won't be in a decade or two, or that we won't require them for a NATO or UN mission; the F-18s could have easily provided close support to our troops in Afghanistan. The state of our military prior to the First and Second World Wars and the war in Afghanistan demonstrates that we need to be prepared for any eventuality, and if we aren't our soldiers, sailors and airmen will be left with insufficient quantities of outdated and largely useless equipment. I know from first-hand experience just how poor quality the CF's equipment was post-9/11, and how long it took before adequate gear was finally provided (something as simple as desert camouflage took years to procure, so imagine the difficulties of buying jets on short notice).

You make some very good points, we need to be ready. We where not ready before WW1 or WW2, we can not let that happen again. Becasue we where not ready Canada could not contribute anything in the 2 worls wars and had to have the USA do the fighting for US.

We should spend 100% of the federal budget on defense in order to be ready. We need to support the USA 100% to make sure we are going to have to use this improved military.

The biggest threat Canada has today is to Maybe shoot down a passenger jet sometime in the next 30 years. The Only aircraft that can do this is the F35, a F18 Super Hornet is incapable of doing this and this is why we need the F35.

Anyone who disagrees with this is a pinko commie, who want to kill Canadian troops.

[alctel]

We absolutely need some kind of fast fighter/bomber jet but I'm not sure getting just 60 of a extremely high-tech stealth single-engine fighter is the way forward.

What are we going to use it for?

For patrolling the arctic (which I actually think is important), I would have thought a twin engined, more rugged, longer range plane would have been a better bet.

For following the Americans into yet another middle-eastern/Asian war and blowing up people in caves/jungles/weddings/schools do we really need a fragile stealthy bomber? How are we going to get them overseas anyway? UAVs are just as effective and more disposable.

If Russia/China/America decides to invade then they would be pretty handy, except we only have 60 of the things.

The world is the most stable and safest it's ever been. Globalisation has caused a lot of evil but one thing it has done is tied together the superpowers economies in such a way that none of them will make a serious invasion anymore, and massive information sharing/international travel around the world has made most people realise that people in other countries are not some kind of crazy death people, so it's a lot harder to get support for an invasive war.

[alctel]

The biggest threat Canada has today is to Maybe shoot down a passenger jet sometime in the next 30 years. The Only aircraft that can do this is the F35, a F18 Super Hornet is incapable of doing this and this is why we need the F35.

Stop trolling, obviously the best way to shoot down a passenger jet is with a guided missile cruiser as demonstrated helpfully by the Americans

[teacher]

The world is the most stable and safest it's ever been.

Actually you are dead wrong. Since the end of the cold war it has been much more unstable as 2 super powers have been replaced by many wannabes and other regional conflicts. Nuclear armagedon no but world wide instability yes. We cannot predict what will happen inthe next few years so it's best to be ready.

[iflyforpie]

The biggest threat Canada has today is to Maybe shoot down a passenger jet sometime in the next 30 years. The Only aircraft that can do this is the F35, a F18 Super Hornet is incapable of doing this and this is why we need the F35.

Stop trolling, obviously the best way to shoot down a passenger jet is with a guided missile cruiser as demonstrated helpfully by the Americans

Are you aware of any current or planned AEGIS equipped guided missile cruisers in the CAF?

Anyways, all you really need is some SU-15s if you want to shoot down airliners...

[Team Firecracker]

Uhh...why don't we just get a few nukes? Isn't that the card you need to keep from being invaded? I'd think 3 nuclear missiles would do the trick....how much would that cost?

or even better....just tell the world we have them....history has shown no one calls your bluff on that one...

[Siddley Hawker]

Uhh...why don't we just get a few nukes?

When you acquire nukes, you become a target.

[Canuck223]

The logic escapes me.

The Liberals make no bones about hating the US and thier militarism, but then wash thier hands of funding our military so we wind up increasingly dependant on the US.

[BTD]

We where not ready before WW1 or WW2, we can not let that happen again. Becasue we where not ready Canada could not contribute anything in the 2 worls wars and had to have the USA do the fighting for US.

Here fishy.

Contribute nothing eh.

[. ._]

Uhh...why don't we just get a few nukes?

When you acquire nukes, you become a target.

I dunno. If Iraq had nukes, would the U.S. have illegally invaded them?

[Heliian]

Ok, to answer the dopes as to why we need fighter a/c: We need to protect our sovereignty and keep the arctic as ours and all the resources that go with it, that is the most important reason. Secondly, peacekeeping like Canada has a great tradition of.

To answer why replace 80 with 65: How many of that 80 are serviceable? 20? 30 maybe.
Some great minds on this thread that understand why the government can't get involved with military purchases. The military needs the hardware. I had a good chuckle at the guy who had government procurement training, you've been told what's best for the gov by the gov, get real.
The f-35 is going to replace all the a/c in the american forces because of the different options that are available. (army, navy, air force)

Joint means developed and used by multiple agencies.

Obviously, they aren't going to tell you the actual ranges and speeds. The ability to go mach without a/b's is a majour step up from the shitty f-18s we have now. I hope the deal goes through but I have no faith in the current majourity of pussified voters and politicians.

[MrWings]

If there was a WWIII, with the CF-18, we'd last 13 minutes.

Now, with the F35, we'll last 21 minutes.

Long live Canada!

[Mrs.Robinson]

We where not ready before WW1 or WW2, we can not let that happen again. Becasue we where not ready Canada could not contribute anything in the 2 worls wars and had to have the USA do the fighting for US.

Here fishy.

Contribute nothing eh.

no one but the Germans where ready for WW2, Saying Canada needs f35's to be ready because we where not ready for WW2 is just stupid. Calling yourself a conservative and support a non bid contract is stupid. Saying conservatives support our troops and them having then fly single engine aircraft is stupid.

When 80% of are defense budget is for 65 aircraft we don't need, I wounder where the cuts will be to pay for these aircraft. 16 billion double that like the helicopters and you get 32 billion.

The front line troops will get the cuts and end up dying for the sake of a few air force officers doing a few weekend airshows for a living. I would rather give this money to the vets who have come back and really support our troops

[MrWings]

The f-35 is going to replace all the a/c in the american forces because of the different options that are available. (army, navy, air force)

Ever hear of the dope that put all his eggs in one basket?

[North Shore]

We need to protect our sovereignty and keep the arctic as ours and all the resources that go with it

Helian, do you honestly think that 60 jets are going to protect us from the most likely poacher of our natural resources? Give your head a shake - the Americans would roll over us in a day...

[Heliian]

Talkin about the Russians and the Danish and The Chinese and whoever else wants to try, We've already been taken over by the americans, duh.

[fish4life]

In reality I think the best aircraft for Canada would be the F-22 they just cost too damn much.

As for the F-35 the only thing that would happen with a bid is a bunch of other a/c types would come out and we'd still pick the F-35 just 10 years from now and millions of dollars of "Studies" later.