College of Pilots?

[Cat Driver]

Fair comment yycflyguy, however your apparent bias towards this new organization that few if any here on this anonymous forum know anything about prompts me to wonder if you are privy to information about the college us unwashed commoners out here are wondering about?

[mcrit]

On the issue of licencing, this began when the government introduced legislation {bill C6} that would have permitted the outsourcing of the licencing function of TC. Never clearly defined, this was a cause for great concern. A certain industry trade group along with a well known training provider expressed great interest, and frankly had probably lobbied for the changes behind the scenes in Ottawa. We are of the view, I am sure shared by almost all commercial pilots, that having these types of groups in charge of issuing and defining our professional qualifications is a non-starter.

Guys, the above quote sums it up. The operators are trying to make an end run to take over licensing. That will be very bad for the pilot profession as a whole. You think the 'puppy mills' are turning out too many 200-hr wonders now (leading to low wages and horrid conditions), wait until some non-pilot MBA is making the calls on standards and licensing. If you guys are smart you'll find a way to make this college thing work so it can act as a strong public voice for pilots conditions and flight safety.

[yycflyguy]

Fair comment yycflyguy, however your apparent bias towards this new organization that few if any here on this anonymous forum know anything about prompts me to wonder if you are privy to information about the college us unwashed commoners out here are wondering about?

If I appear to have a bias it is only based on personal experience in the industry that leads me to believe that a College is warranted. I have a bit of experience with how other professional "colleges" function through my wife, but it is not in the aviation industry. From what I see, her "college" does an excellent job of maintaining their licencing standards and controlling issuance of licences which, in turn, keeps salaries high. They also have a reporting system for negligence and review boards.

I certainly am not privy to any more information than the next guy and most of my posts are made with rose coloured glasses that this will improve pilot WAWCON from top to bottom. My opinion has been formulated on personal opinion and what I have read here and on my unions forum. Dust Devil alluded to the idea that the college may be influenced by the big money of big unions/associations. I think that is a valid concern.

[Cat Driver]

Thanks for responding...

[MrWings]

If you want to make the commercial licence more "professional" kick the minimum PIC up to 500 hours. If people actually followed what they were taught when doing their training you would not see these stupid accidents we read about in the papers.

I strongly disagree with your first statement.

I strongly agree with your second statement.

However, the two statements are not in any way tied to each other.

It is easy to look back now when you have a few thousand hours and realize how much better of a pilot you are than when you first started. But the fact is the large majority of new commercial pilots do not get into "stupid" accidents. Accidents happen to pilots of ALL experience levels.

Raising the PIC to 500 hrs will only create a greater hardship for those pilots trying to get into the profession. They are saddled with enough debt as it is. Why increase that?

The current commercial minimum is fine as long as you follow your second statement.

[snoopy]

Interesting how this thread was split in such a way that the critical points were all removed and only the nice fluffy stuff remains. There are many of us that would prefer to have our concerns addressed, rather than having our views censored in such a way that questions remain unanswered. But hey, you can't sticky a thread that doesn't fully support and promote someone's personal agenda now can you?
Cheers,
Kirsten B.

[Cat Driver]

Just leaving the nice fluffy stuff Snoop is well known technique to seduce your intended target into submission.

It is only after the fact the target realizes they were used.

I am not saying this group are intentionally seducing the pilot group but I am getting nervous.

[Widow]

The thread was split from the point of Colin's entry into the fray. It seemed like a logical place to split as prior to his joining there was much speculation and little fact. A link to the original thread remains at the top of the first page of this thread, for those who wish to review what was said. Nothing has been censored.

Whether one agrees with the initiative or not, I think it important that everyone is aware, and that they don't have to wade through all the mud-slinging to find any statements or responses from the College representatives themselves. I doubt Colin intended to go back through the original thread to answer every concern, question or accusation - but he has welcomed them anew with his entry.

Better to start again, fresh, no?

[Dust Devil]

Just leaving the nice fluffy stuff Snoop is well known technique to seduce your intended target into submission.

It is only after the fact the target realizes they were used.

I am not saying this group are intentionally seducing the pilot group but I am getting nervous.

I'm not so sure Avcanada can provide a forum of debate or even an association as you referred to solve problems when it appears it's now being moderated with an agenda. This is pretty sad. Guess I'll just slide back down to the political thread and piss off the hippies. Maybe by the time this College is in place I can sell my aircraft and retire some where warm. I just got done moving planes around for the last couple hours on the ramp and I'm ready to go somewhere warm anyway.

[Dust Devil]

The thread was split from the point of Colin's entry into the fray. It seemed like a logical place to split as prior to his joining there was much speculation and little fact. A link to the original thread remains at the top of the first page of this thread, for those who wish to review what was said. Nothing has been censored.

Whether one agrees with the initiative or not, I think it important that everyone is aware, and that they don't have to wade through all the mud-slinging to find any statements or responses from the College representatives themselves. I doubt Colin intended to go back through the original thread to answer every concern, question or accusation - but he has welcomed them anew with his entry.

Better to start again, fresh, no?

It's Joe's forum and he gave you the power to censor as you see fit.

Cheers

[Doc]

The thread was split from the point of Colin's entry into the fray. It seemed like a logical place to split as prior to his joining there was much speculation and little fact. A link to the original thread remains at the top of the first page of this thread, for those who wish to review what was said. Nothing has been censored.

Whether one agrees with the initiative or not, I think it important that everyone is aware, and that they don't have to wade through all the mud-slinging to find any statements or responses from the College representatives themselves. I doubt Colin intended to go back through the original thread to answer every concern, question or accusation - but he has welcomed them anew with his entry.

Better to start again, fresh, no?

Not at all. The point of the whole bloody exercise was the FACT that Colin had the courage TO step in, in the midst of all the "mud slinging" The "mud slinging" WAS the whole point. At least I never remove the wheat form the chaff when I was moderating. Snoopy is very correct to point this out. Life is NOT necessarily a "warm and "fuzzy" place. Sometimes it's not your place to "adjust" things to suit you.

[Widow]

I thought I explained my reasoning for splitting the thread. I didn't think I was adjusting anything to suit myself. Does everyone who cares (positively or negatively) about the initiative want to read ten pages of speculation before getting to the point where the College introduces itself?

I haven't censored anything. Not sure how splitting the thread is following some "agenda" - others seem to think adding a sticky would indicate an agenda, yet DD suggested it himself. So does he have an agenda?

I'll put the threads back together if you all object so much ... maybe with a note at the top of the first page directing to Colin's first post? Would that be preferable?

[Dust Devil]

I thought I explained my reasoning for splitting the thread. I didn't think I was adjusting anything to suit myself. Does everyone who cares (positively or negatively) about the initiative want to read ten pages of speculation before getting to the point where the College introduces itself?

I haven't censored anything. Not sure how splitting the thread is following some "agenda" - others seem to think adding a sticky would indicate an agenda, yet DD suggested it himself. So does he have an agenda?

I'll put the threads back together if you all object so much ... maybe with a note at the top of the first page directing to Colin's first post? Would that be preferable?

Don't really care anymore on this issue or the gear issue to tell you the truth. Nothing will change.

[snoopy]

I'll go with no.

It took 11 pages of discussion (and some minor hijacking/mudslinging) to get Colin to respond in the first place. Obviously somebody either made him aware of the discussion on these forums, or he finally came out of hiding to "speak", but not really answer. Interestingly all the dissenting views have now been buried - out of sight, out of mind so to speak. It definitely reinforces the idea that no information, or dis-information is the modus operandi of this organization, and apparently, one moderator, who took matters into his/her? own hands because it suited their viewpoints.

The fact that the topic grew into 11 pages indicates there was sufficient interest from forum users to read, and respond to the topic. And it shouldn't be up to anyone except the reader whether or not they wish to wade through "x" number of pages.

Any organization is sincere, transparent and true in its goals and mission statement will become apparent in good time and should stand up to scrutiny on its own merit, and without interference.

IMHO a moderator's job is to keep discussions within forum etiquette, guidelines and terms of agreement signed by the forums users. If the users' posts fall within established etiquette, guidelines and forum topics, their posts should not be tampered with - particularly when the moderator's personal views differ from opinions expressed therein.

Thank you Doc.

Cheers,
Kirsten B.

[Widow]

Many views have been expressed; mine were not the only ones to be positive toward the initiative.

No posts have been "tampered with". The thread split did not result in any dis or misinformation, as the original thread was linked at the top of the new one. Nothing was removed from the new thread; it still included criticism and concern posted since Colin's entry.

Nonetheless, I will glue the threads back together.

[Doc]

What Snoopy said. Plus, and I don't mean this to sound disrespectful in any way towards you Widow, but frankly you will very likely be the least impacted poster on the forum with regards to what the "college" may, or may not attempt to do.
Placing a "note" on the first page "directing" to Colin's first post, is once again fulfilling your agenda. If there are no "personal attacks", "legal implications" and the like, let the conversations develop on their own merit.
I know I was one of the major detractors from the "college" as were many others. We do deserve to have our posts remain, as we have very relevant concerns regarding the arrival, on the scene, through what seemed to be the "back door" at the time. All those concerns have been "flushed" in the name of "warm and fuzzy"?

[snoopy]

Thank you for the glue job! Interestingly there are 6817 views to the topic (at this moment) - proof, that there is interest in the many sides of the debate.

Kirsten B.

[Cat Driver]

Man am I ever happy I no longer depend on aviation for my living and even happier I was fortunate enough to work outside Canada for the last decade or so of my career.

Of all the countries I worked in I never saw one where so many pilots were willing to do anything just to fly for a meager wage generally.

I guess being self employed shielded me from the reality of the industry but reading Avcanada for the past decade sure has enlightened me.

I fear that aviation will become just another Walmart job.

[mattedfred]

knowledge is power

ignorance breeds fear

fear is also extremely powerful

i had longed for the debates i used to have in highschool until i registered on avcanada

[Cat Driver]

So what keeps you here?

The knowledgeable posters?

The ignorant posters?

The fearful posters?

Or all of the above?

You may find some of us could be knowledgeable and maybe you could learn something in these debates.

[Pratt X 3]

At least I never remove the wheat form the chaff when I was moderating.

Hope I don't start a sh*tstorm but may I ask what happened to your moderating position? Did you step down or were you asked to resign? Or is it none of anyone's business?

[Doc]

At least I never remove the wheat form the chaff when I was moderating.

Hope I don't start a sh*tstorm but may I ask what happened to your moderating position? Did you step down or were you asked to resign? Or is it none of anyone's business?

I didn't like the hours, or the pay.

[Pratt X 3]

Roger!

[Doc]

Sure glad this thread has become a sticky. Wouldn't want to miss any of the factual information. Like Nil. Questions asked. No answers yet. We wait with bated breath.

[Dust Devil]

Sure glad this thread has become a sticky. Wouldn't want to miss any of the factual information. Like Nil. Questions asked. No answers yet. We wait with bated breath.

There are questions that have been asked. They just haven't been answered.