I had to deal with a DAR for a ferry system once. I was OK with most of it but a year later I wanted to move the tank laterally in the cabin. TC wanted a letter stating that moving the tank did not affect the previous DAR calculations. No problem, nothing changed but the DAR would not do the letter, I had to type it up for him and his John Hancock on the bottom cost me 600 bucks!
I am so in the wrong end of this busniness sometimes.
External loads
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Rudder Bug
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
" Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:04 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Man! you guys are dangerous. "
Explain why?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Man! you guys are dangerous. "
Explain why?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
The general attitude here is that pilots have the knowledge and skill to determine what external loads are "safe".
It's one thing to operate on the backs of past risk takers, but its worrisome when I read things like this:
It's one thing to operate on the backs of past risk takers, but its worrisome when I read things like this:
They are not a modification to the aircraft, they are junk on the side? Wow. That scares the crap out of me. Hornblower, tell you what. Strap whatever "junk" to the side of your airplane you want. I'll watch from the shore with a video camera.I don’t agree that proving flights or any other type of approval is appropriate. First of all, as you have already said no two externals are the same, if you fly a mad river on the test, is an old town going to be the same? Are they structurally the same? Are they shaped the same? Do they weigh the same? What about the F’ing Sports-pal? And that’s only the canoes! What about lumber, boats, fridges sticking out the side of the beaver?
There is no way that TC should be involved in approving external loads, ... no way then can approve them either. They are not a modification to the aircraft, they are junk on the side. Only the racks or devices used to hold the external could possibly be approved, and then only because they would be designed to a standard, and built under approved processes. Does Mad River need a PMA (or PDA) and a manufacturing approval to build their canoes? I think not!
-
. ._
- Top Poster
- Posts: 7374
- Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:50 pm
- Location: Cowering in my little room because the Water Cooler is locked.
- Contact:
I think TC only requires the red flags if they're sticking out 6 or more feet. If it's at night, it's gotta be a red light.Doc wrote:Saw a DHC4 flying hydro poles sticking out the rear....is this a bad thing? Guess so, they didn't have red flags attached to them....could have rear-ended the bleeding things with the Racer!
You're welcome.
-istp
External Loads
Gentlemen/Ladies;
As the exemption for external loads is in place, we are hearing that very few if any have applied to operate under it. Presumably operators are going to carry external loads this summer and our fear is that if there are no applications, TC will in the end have just cause to permanently cancel the exemption. We are applying and making the changes to our manuals to stay legal in case of a ramp check. We think our boat rack for the Beech 18 will be ready by the end of the year and after that we won't have a problem.
But what about all of the other operators who do need the exemption to stay alive? Is anybody thinking of applying? Once it is gone, it would be difficult to get it back and the fault would be on our own shoulders, not TC.
carholme
As the exemption for external loads is in place, we are hearing that very few if any have applied to operate under it. Presumably operators are going to carry external loads this summer and our fear is that if there are no applications, TC will in the end have just cause to permanently cancel the exemption. We are applying and making the changes to our manuals to stay legal in case of a ramp check. We think our boat rack for the Beech 18 will be ready by the end of the year and after that we won't have a problem.
But what about all of the other operators who do need the exemption to stay alive? Is anybody thinking of applying? Once it is gone, it would be difficult to get it back and the fault would be on our own shoulders, not TC.
carholme
Some TC guys were by our dock the other day, and told us that the exemption to the CARS regarding external loads has been put back into place. All an operator needs to haul an external load is to have it in the ops manual and do the proving flight. To get around the boat rack issue, it is an external load itself, and call it an external load bumper, not a rack. Pretend you tie the ropes and ratchet straps to the struts, not the rack.
I dont know how long the exemption is in place for, and have yet to see it on paper, but the TC inspectors were spreading this good word.
I dont know how long the exemption is in place for, and have yet to see it on paper, but the TC inspectors were spreading this good word.
WE'RE BACK!!!
Just got CBAAC 0232R2 in the mail today. Exemption re-instated 'till Dec 31, 2008!!
Strap it on, proving flight (1 circuit?) and you're away. Part of this new deal, however, is that bi-annual reports detailing EACH flight are to be forwarded to TC to ensure data collection.
Bring on the mountain bikes!!
Just got CBAAC 0232R2 in the mail today. Exemption re-instated 'till Dec 31, 2008!!
Strap it on, proving flight (1 circuit?) and you're away. Part of this new deal, however, is that bi-annual reports detailing EACH flight are to be forwarded to TC to ensure data collection.
Bring on the mountain bikes!!
Aviation- the hardest way possible to make an easy living!
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
-
cessnafloatflyer
- Rank 4
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Cessnaflyer,
If your Ops manual contained previous information regarding the carriage of external loads, it will most certainly need amending before you can carry external loads on any aircraft without an STC (or proper paperwork for the STC) - and regardless of whether or not passengers are carried - because this exemption is different than those of the past. From some of the comments posted here it would appear that not everyone has read the new exemption through very carefully.
Cheers,
Snoopy
If your Ops manual contained previous information regarding the carriage of external loads, it will most certainly need amending before you can carry external loads on any aircraft without an STC (or proper paperwork for the STC) - and regardless of whether or not passengers are carried - because this exemption is different than those of the past. From some of the comments posted here it would appear that not everyone has read the new exemption through very carefully.
Cheers,
Snoopy
“Never interrupt someone doing something you said couldn’t be done.” Amelia Earhart
Please fill us in on what you see our misunderstandings to be. Perhaps you could give us your interpretation. The way I see it is this: Ops Manual that identifies how external loads shall be carried, and outlining the training conducted in carriage of externals. Proving flight for each 'type' of load carried, and data to be forwarded to TC detailing each external load flight every 6 months. Am I off here?snoopy wrote: From some of the comments posted here it would appear that not everyone has read the new exemption through very carefully.
Cheers,
Snoopy
Aviation- the hardest way possible to make an easy living!
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
Yup, that's the one I got. Have I got it right? This circular simply refers to the requirements as set out in the original exemption, which I'm having some difiiculty tracking down.
Aviation- the hardest way possible to make an easy living!
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
Airtids,
There is a NEW exemption out: No. 051-2006-NCR/RCN RDIMS #1798324, and yes it is very difficult to find - but your inspector should be able to fax or mail you a copy. You can't just use the material in the ops manual from the previous exemptions as this exemption is different. Never mind the CBAAC, you need the exemption itself which clearly lays out the information that must be contained in the your ops manual, and how to properly meet the terms and conditions of the exemption. No interpretation required - just read carefully.
Cheers,
Snoopy
ps regarding CBAAC's: note the disclaimer written on the bottom of each and every CBAAC "Commercial and Business Aviation Advisory Circulars (CBAAC) are intended to provide information and guidance regarding operational matters. A CBAAC may describe an acceptable, but not the only means of demonstrating compliance with the existing regulations. CBAAC's in and of themselves do not change, create any additional, authorize changes in, or permit deviations from regulatory requirements"
There is a NEW exemption out: No. 051-2006-NCR/RCN RDIMS #1798324, and yes it is very difficult to find - but your inspector should be able to fax or mail you a copy. You can't just use the material in the ops manual from the previous exemptions as this exemption is different. Never mind the CBAAC, you need the exemption itself which clearly lays out the information that must be contained in the your ops manual, and how to properly meet the terms and conditions of the exemption. No interpretation required - just read carefully.
Cheers,
Snoopy
ps regarding CBAAC's: note the disclaimer written on the bottom of each and every CBAAC "Commercial and Business Aviation Advisory Circulars (CBAAC) are intended to provide information and guidance regarding operational matters. A CBAAC may describe an acceptable, but not the only means of demonstrating compliance with the existing regulations. CBAAC's in and of themselves do not change, create any additional, authorize changes in, or permit deviations from regulatory requirements"
“Never interrupt someone doing something you said couldn’t be done.” Amelia Earhart
