LifeGuard 3 King Air B200 off runway Maple Creek SK

[Cat Driver]

Oh, Oh, what has been a sane thread may now become a bitter dispute between different belief systems.

I hope this thread makes it through the weekend at least.

[J31]

Interesting that TWO medics are required in the back of the airplane but only one pilot to fly

[ArcticKat]

@J31 Actually, it's a medic and a flight nurse...or a specialized team such as pediatric transport or neonatal transport which include respiratory therapists, nurses with that specialty, and sometimes a doc. SAA has never flown with 2 medics to my knowledge.

[BadgerGirl]

On the Friday CTV news Regina yesterday, the government has decided to go forward with two pilot crews.
The Badger received some press too, which is nice and the NDP accidentally gave CTV a heads-up on the story, but Wayne at CTV agreed to hold it out of respect for the reporting process was good to work with. I am not sure who else has picked up the story, but I did receive contact from the Globe and Mail on Friday as well.

The broadcast is online at http://regina.ctv.ca/ and you can choose Friday 6 p.m. news in the blue block on the right, the story starts at seven minutes in.

So, hopefully, a small victory for the aviation industry, but I think we'll need to make sure some of the other issues in the two reports are also addressed. I imagine morale within the SAA right now is not the best as superiors are going to wonder about leaks and any tension that was there previously is going to be increased now. Anyway, I think the department will have to be monitored closely to ensure the two pilot thing isn't just a bandaid solution, because certainly, that was not the only issue. It was however, the easiest for the public to be engaged by and thus, the surest way to draw attention to a department that needs assistance and leadership.

Overall, it seems like aviation is an under-reported on sector of our society, likely because it is complex. All the more reason why it needs a watchdog. I'd sure be interested in learning more about the pay structure for pilots (and other aviation professionals) to see that works, adjusted for inflation and compared going back five decades or so. Anyway, I strongly believe in the press acting as an advocate, for everyone that has been disenfranchised or has experienced injustice and certainly, everyone who keeps us safe while the public is in the air are included.

Thanks for everybody's help and for your patience – you were very tolerant of my complete ignorance and many of you sent me messages privately to nurser my very fledgling understanding along.
And I hope you don't mind if I continue to hang out here once in a while. Someone has even offered to give me a couple of flying lessons, which I am seriously contemplating accepting!

[shitdisturber]

On the Friday CTV news Regina yesterday, the government has decided to go forward with two pilot crews.
The Badger received some press too, which is nice and the NDP accidentally gave CTV a heads-up on the story, but Wayne at CTV agreed to hold it out of respect for the reporting process was good to work with. I am not sure who else has picked up the story, but I did receive contact from the Globe and Mail on Friday as well.

The broadcast is online at http://regina.ctv.ca/ and you can choose Friday 6 p.m. news in the blue block on the right, the story starts at seven minutes in.

So, hopefully, a small victory for the aviation industry, but I think we'll need to make sure some of the other issues in the two reports are also addressed. I imagine morale within the SAA right now is not the best as superiors are going to wonder about leaks and any tension that was there previously is going to be increased now. Anyway, I think the department will have to be monitored closely to ensure the two pilot thing isn't just a bandaid solution, because certainly, that was not the only issue. It was however, the easiest for the public to be engaged by and thus, the surest way to draw attention to a department that needs assistance and leadership.

Overall, it seems like aviation is an under-reported on sector of our society, likely because it is complex. All the more reason why it needs a watchdog. I'd sure be interested in learning more about the pay structure for pilots (and other aviation professionals) to see that works, adjusted for inflation and compared going back five decades or so. Anyway, I strongly believe in the press acting as an advocate, for everyone that has been disenfranchised or has experienced injustice and certainly, everyone who keeps us safe while the public is in the air are included.

Thanks for everybody's help and for your patience – you were very tolerant of my complete ignorance and many of you sent me messages privately to nurser my very fledgling understanding along.
And I hope you don't mind if I continue to hang out here once in a while. Someone has even offered to give me a couple of flying lessons, which I am seriously contemplating accepting!

By all means, stick around. You've been a refreshing change from most of the press coverage we see that tends to make us somewhat cynical. From my perspective you ran with a story that needed to be told and most importantly you didn't try to BS anybody. What you didn't know you weren't afraid to ask and your reporting has been one of the more accurate involving aviation that I've seen. Congrats on a job well done.

[Cat Driver]

Overall, it seems like aviation is an under-reported on sector of our society, likely because it is complex.

And complexity is in direct per-portion to the expansion of the bureaucracy.

CAR's is a world class example of the above.

[ArcticKat]

Overall, it seems like aviation is an under-reported on sector of our society, likely because it is complex.

And complexity is in direct per-portion to the expansion of the bureaucracy.

CAR's is a world class example of the above.

Remember, she's not a pilot....yet. CARs = Canadian Aviation Regulations although I'm sure Lightning McQueen was not easy to draw either.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... s/menu.htm

[J31]

@J31 Actually, it's a medic and a flight nurse...or a specialized team such as pediatric transport or neonatal transport which include respiratory therapists, nurses with that specialty, and sometimes a doc. SAA has never flown with 2 medics to my knowledge.

I understand what you are saying. However I meant the term “medics” to mean medical personal like a paramedic, EMT, nurse, flight nurse, or doctor. I apologize, am not up on the latest medical personnel terms for air ambulance.

Back in the day when I started flying air ambulance we dispatched with a nurse off the floor of the hospital or nursing station. Usually only one medical personnel was on board unless the doctor felt they need to travel with the patient also. The system has evolved to have at least two medical personnel (paramedic, EMT, flight nurse) on air ambulance flights. It has been a great improvement as the workload can be very high with some more critical patients.

My point being is that Saskatchewan has the Canadian standard for medical staff on air ambulance, but they are way behind in the flight crew department.

I am not suggesting that this crash could have been avoided with a second pilot. On the contrary, Saskatchewan has competent, experienced, and well trained pilots but they have been stuck on the single pilot mentality for some time.

They are still flying single pilot in pressurized turbine powered aircraft like they did in the Navajo in years gone by. The rest of Canada has been operating air ambulance with two pilots for years.

In light of these recent crashes I hope the spotlight is on poorly maintained runways. I would hope that this puts more pressure on small airport operators to do a much better job of maintaining their airports. Although I am not holding my breath, hopefully Transport Canada will revamp their recommended guidelines to improve the situation.

[ArcticKat]

Thanks for the clarification J31...my misunderstanding. I can't disagree with anything you've stated here. I believe that the Government held on to the single pilot mentality as a holdover from the Navajo and Cheyenne days too and that they spec'ed the replacements as a single pilot flight deck, which Beech claims the King Airs to be, although somewhat more complex.

I did find it disturbing though that the Government required two on the flight deck for privately owned air ambulances though, but not for their own. Although the Government was indeed moving forward with the two pilot system, we owe it to BadgerGirl for accelerating the process.

[Sidebar]

Overall, it seems like aviation is an under-reported on sector of our society, likely because it is complex.

Medicine is complex, so is banking, manufacturing, and government. That does not prevent reporting, although it requires experienced and inquisitive journalists.

I think the under-reporting is a result of a fairly safe aviation system in Canada. It seems the only time aviation in Canada hits the news is when something goes wrong, like a Beech 200 off the runway in Maple Creek. The more injuries and fatalities, the greater the coverage.

When was the last time anyone saw a headline like "Thousands of flights arrive without incident!"

[BadgerGirl]

Thanks ArticKat

Sidebar,
I understand what you are saying. However, much like aviation, the medical industry is the same – it's mostly surface reporting that revolves around press releases, "Researchers now say green leafy vegetables may increase cancer risk" and critical incident reporting such as: "Official Opposition says wait times for heart surgery have doubled since government took power."

So, that is primarily the kind of reporting we have today, in all industries. On the surface, it looks like journalism as it always has been. But keep in mind that media spokespeople, public relations people and communications people far, far outnumber journalists. As a result, instead of being searched for, news is handed over on a silver platter. At corporate outifts, news rooms have been vastly reduced in size, and to the media managers, there still seems to be no shortage of stories, so staff keeps getting cut. Add to that fear of losing advertisers, lack of resources or will for investigative journalism... the people's watchdog has become more of a stuffed animal.

I recognize our aviation system in Canada has a very good record and that's great – but what I am hearing with regard to pay system, working conditions and the widespread fear of speaking out I am seeing, to me, these are warning signs that there are issues that need addressing and these problems may have nothing to do with the number of incidents we have – at least not now.

Or, I could be totally off here and my instincts are entirely wrong, lol.
Anyway, I just hope that everyone knows they can contact me if they have a concern they wish for someone to look into.

Medicine is complex, so is banking, manufacturing, and government. That does not prevent reporting, although it requires experienced and inquisitive journalists.

I think the under-reporting is a result of a fairly safe aviation system in Canada. It seems the only time aviation in Canada hits the news is when something goes wrong, like a Beech 200 off the runway in Maple Creek. The more injuries and fatalities, the greater the coverage.

When was the last time anyone saw a headline like "Thousands of flights arrive without incident!"

[Prairie Chicken]

Hey BadgerGirl--good work! I listened to the CTV article & it was nice to see they gave the Badger the credits. A small victory is still a victory but I think this is a fairly significant victory. I also think all those on here who pass thru Maple Creek should buy you a beer for this one! And perhaps the new hires at SAA should spring for lunch or a 12-pack.

Also, what you're saying about today's journalism is so sadely true! All of us here know that Transport Canada's response to an aviation incident comes straight from their Media Relations officer & bears little relation to the facts of the matter.

To those who are concerned about the snow clearing at Maple Creek, I'd remind you that this is a registered aerodrome--not an airport--and that is a signficiant difference. Still, if Maple Creek & other rural a/d operators are a little more consciencious after this incident that is a good thing.

Now it's time for some of you to get those resumes into the SK gov't!

[BadgerGirl]

I'm sort of a vodka girl. I also like flowers.
(Hey, a gal can try, right?!)

[Visual Sensations]

Not that it matters, but not all SAA pilots have over 10,000 hours as quoted earlier in the thread.

[ArcticKat]

Not that it matters, but not all SAA pilots have over 10,000 hours as quoted earlier in the thread.

Then they need to update their website.

http://www.health.gov.sk.ca/flight-crew-qualifications

Edit:
Actually, they REALLY need to update their website. I'm pretty sure they haven't had a Cheyenne in the fleet since it did a gear up landing almost 10 years ago.

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/c ... 0&narr=SLG

Edit:
I've been informed via PM that I am mistaken and that my references are inaccurate, further research on my part has revealed that the Cheyenne was indeed repaired and returned to service. I don't know when the Cheyennes were removed from the fleet and had made an assumption that a gear up landing would have been a death knell for the plane in this particular fleet because SAA was in a period of transitioning to the B200s. Admittedly I am no expert on the subject of SAA and I am not an "insider" who possesses information that others may not be aware of. Please, do not take the information I provide as anything but the ramblings of an inexperienced pilot with no knowledge of the topic he is commenting on.

[lowlevel]

Five people escaped serious injury when a medevac flight from Slave Lake skidded off the runway while trying to land at City Centre Airport at about 9:30 p.m. Sunday.

One person on board the plane suffered minor injuries while the other four were not injured.

All five were taken to the Royal Alexandra Hospital as a precaution, said Robert D’Aoust, a district fire chief for the airport.

“This could have been a lot worse. Luckily there were no serious injuries,” said D’Aoust.

Although there was no major structural damage to the plane, a Beech 200 two-engine aircraft, D’Aoust did say one flap was bent.

Snow was falling and there was a light northerly wind at the time the plane skidded off the runway.

Edmonton Airports spokeswoman Sarah Meffen said the airport was closed immediately after the incident and was reopened an hour later.

No further details about the nature of the medevac flight were available at press time.

Slave Lake is about 251 km northwest of Edmonton.





Hey Badgergirl, maybe you can take this one and run with it, you never know what's behind door #2 in aviation. Maybe you can be the hero and get the city of Edmonton to change thier minds and keep city centre open. Moving up to the big leagues girlfriend, just around the corner is the Globe and Mail.

[BadgerGirl]

No thanks. Sadly, the big league is often shallow at the intellectual stimulation end of the pool, though it should be the opposite.
I moved here from Winnipeg, deliberately leaving the city behind.
I have done radio, television, web and print and by far, print allows for the best combination of credibility and room for detail.
Plus, I own The Badger – I can do investigative pieces because I allow myself too. I haven't been granted the same opportunity to pursue journalism in larger outfits in the it should be done.
My paper is fairly risque – I'm not sure Edmonton is ready for me yet.

Hey Badgergirl, maybe you can take this one and run with it, you never know what's behind door #2 in aviation. Maybe you can be the hero and get the city of Edmonton to change thier minds and keep city centre open. Moving up to the big leagues girlfriend, just around the corner is the Globe and Mail.

[Cat Driver]

From reading your posts on this thread lowlevel it would appear you are not impressed with the way BadgerGirl is reporting on this issue.

I'm a bit curious about your question regarding the runway lights as it is my understanding the accident happened during daylight hours.

Then again I may missing something in this whole subject.

[BadgerGirl]

Hi Cat,
I had not considered that. Certainly, if there is something I have missed, or messed up on, I certainly hope people are comfortable enough to share their opinion in an open and transparent way.
It's very hard to learn and to improve without meaningful feedback and the honest exchange of information.
I will go check out the runway again tomorrow and take photos, if people would find that helpful.

From reading your posts on this thread lowlevel it would appear you are not impressed with the way BadgerGirl is reporting on this issue.

I'm a bit curious about your question regarding the runway lights as it is my understanding the accident happened during daylight hours.

Then again I may missing something in this whole subject.

[Cat Driver]

Hi Cat,
I had not considered that. Certainly, if there is something I have missed, or messed up on, I certainly hope people are comfortable enough to share their opinion in an open and transparent way.
It's very hard to learn and to improve without meaningful feedback and the honest exchange of information.
I will go check out the runway again tomorrow and take photos, if people would find that helpful.

My post was aimed at lowlevel BadgerGirl and in support of the quality of your reporting and research of an industry unfamiliar to you.

With regard to the runway lights and windrows the main concern would be if the windrows restricted the width of the runway significantly enough to make it difficult to stay on the runway......as I believe the accident happened during daylight hours.

[ahramin]

Looks like one good thing came out of this accident:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=74509

[turbo-prop]

Had nothing to dowith the accident!!!

[ArcticKat]

Yeah, the govt. was already planning to hire first officers prior to this.

[ahramin]

My mistake. I had not heard of any plans to move to 2 crew prior to this.

When did they make the decision?

[BadgerGirl]

There were two separate consultant reports that called for the move to two pilots. But the process stalled and it wasn't until after the accident that the government committed publicly to a two pilot system.