Confed College Plane Goes Missing

[Just another canuck]

One of our own is having a very very bad day....quick, cue the jokes, sarcasm, and self-centered whining......

http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_deve ... /karma.htm

You feel bad for this guy? Really?

Maybe you should have gone along with him, bet he could have used some company on that long flight

And yet again, cue the sarcasm.

Here's my point: if it turns out that this kid was on a joyride just for the hell of it, then I don't feel bad for him. If it turns out that he was suicidal, then I do.

That's all.

I'll side with you on this one alpha... it sounds like he was suicidal and although what he did was irresponsible and totally inexcusable, depression is a disease. He should have sought help, but same goes for many others out there. Shitty thing is that if he was depressed and suicidal before, the future does not look too bright.

[GFJH]

I feel as bad for this guy as I did for the guy that forged his licence.

how do you relate the 2?

[Just another canuck]

I feel as bad for this guy as I did for the guy that forged his licence.

how do you relate the 2?

Exactly... Labour Board, explain, please... the WJ guy was a mentally stable man who willingly and wrongfully forged documents. This guy was obviously suffering from severe depression. He had no family and probably few, if any, close friends. The two situations don't even closely compare to one another.

I knew this thread would turn into this next.

[GFJH]

and canuck we can accidently forget a wallet, license or to lock to door, you dont forget to steal a plane! lol

[Labour Board]

Labour Board wrote:
I feel as bad for this guy as I did for the guy that forged his licence.




how do you relate the 2?

More about the bleeding heart comments on here than the actual relation of the two individuals.

[VikVaughan]

This guy was obviously suffering from severe depression. He had no family and probably few, if any, close friends. The two situations don't even closely compare to one another.

Forgive me if I haven't been keeping an eye on the news, but how do you know this?

This is very far from an action of a typical depressed person. Depression tends to cause passive action, not outward and willing destructive criminal action such as theft and violation of federal law. If anything, he is a nut job. But depressed? Where is this info coming from?

[GFJH]

Labour Board wrote:
I feel as bad for this guy as I did for the guy that forged his licence.




how do you relate the 2?

More about the bleeding heart comments on here than the actual relation of the two individuals.

you never forgot a thing in your life labour board? everyone does, its human nature.... but u dont forget to steal a plane .hows that make us bleeding heart?

[Strega]

Labour Board wrote:
I feel as bad for this guy as I did for the guy that forged his licence.

your a moron,



This guy is ill, and our system failed to help him. There are people here telling us
that they knew he was "down" but did nothing to help. It is tragic what he has done,
and Im certain that we will all suffer the consequences, but rember, we are all our brothers
keepers.

[Just another canuck]

This guy was obviously suffering from severe depression. He had no family and probably few, if any, close friends. The two situations don't even closely compare to one another.

Forgive me if I haven't been keeping an eye on the news, but how do you know this?

This is very far from an action of a typical depressed person. Depression tends to cause passive action, not outward and willing destructive criminal action such as theft and violation of federal law. If anything, he is a nut job. But depressed? Where is this info coming from?

Some of his classmates had mentioned he had become depressed in the last while and even talked about hurting/killing himself. He has lost both his parents and his only sibling is nowhere near him. This is unconfirmed information, but the actions do make sense if this is true. My initial thought was maybe he flunked out and was seeking revenge on the education system, but this makes a lot more sense.

[rigpiggy]

Stolen Canadian plane lands in Missouri

Updated Mon. Apr. 6 2009 11:30 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

A single-engine plane was stolen from a Thunder Bay, Ont., aviation school Monday afternoon, sparking a bizarre chase through U.S. airspace that ended in a small Missouri town.

The Cessna 172 was taken around 2:55 p.m. ET and soon crossed into the United States, passing over Wisconsin and Illinois as it was tracked by two F-16 fighter jets.

Nearly eight hours later, the pilot landed on a dirt road in the southern Missouri town of Ellsinore and fled on foot.

Police then arrested a suspect, identified by the FBI as 31-year-old Yavuz Burke, a native of Turkey who became a Canadian citizen last year. He was formerly known as Adam Leon.

Lt.-Cmdr. Gary Ross, a spokesperson for the North American Aerospace Defense Command, said the pilot did not respond to radio calls from the jets or the FAA during the entire pursuit.

He also said the pilot refused to acknowledge the nonverbal communications from the F-16 jets to follow them. It appears the plane only landed as it came close to running out of fuel.

At about 5 p.m., the state capital building in Madison, Wis., was evacuated before the plane passed near the region. Police cars cordoned off the streets around the building and officers told people to move away from the area.

The small plane belongs to Confederation College's aviation program and was taken off from the Thunder Bay International Airport.

According to local radio, someone jumped the fence and took off on an unauthorized flight.

City police are at the scene at the college's hangar. Police spokesperson Chris Adams says officers have little to go on at the time.

According to Cessna's website, the Cessna 172 Skyhawk is world's most flown airplane. It has a maximum cruise speed of 233 kilometres an hour and a range of 1,130 km.

[Just another canuck]

There are people here telling us
that they knew he was "down" but did nothing to help

And there lies the problem... depression affects more people than most of us realize. Maybe it's that there are so many signs of depressed people all around us that most just choose to ignore it. If someone tells you they're depressed, they're reaching out... that's their way of asking for help. A responsible person will do something about it... unfortunately, it seems he only reached out to college kids, who are literally drowning in people full of anxiety and depression. How many times a week do you think the average college kid hears someone say... "Ugh, I wanna just die."

[GFJH]

i know people that went to college with this guy before he failed ,a few years ago and they say he was different. but very nice and the last guy to swat a mosquitoe in the northern spring... just shows you never really know someone.

[Doc]

ZERO sympathy here. I don't pity the fool!!!

[MrWings]

your a moron

Oh the ironing.

[GFJH]

ZERO sympathy here. I don't pity the fool!!!

agreed doc , if an F16 wasn't to fast to shoot a C172, i say take it down .if your crazy enough to steal a plane, who says you won't crash it into civilians

[Just another canuck]

I don't feel sorry for him!! or any other theives con-artists & frauds

Let's say he was/is severely depressed... you can not compare him to a common criminal. His actions were not based on criminal intent, they were based on something else. He was probably at the end of his rope and was very seriously contemplating suicide. We would all feel sorry for him if he had just blown his brains out wouldn't we... right now, he needs to be brought home and checked into a mental hospital. Unfortunately this will not happen and his mental issues are will only grow from here on in. It's sad really.

[VikVaughan]

I wonder how long it will take until "Adam Leon" is autocensored on Avcanada

[Labour Board]

WTF OVER!! Nobody named names!!!

[GFJH]

I don't feel sorry for him!! or any other theives con-artists & frauds

Let's say he was/is severely depressed... you can not compare him to a common criminal. His actions were not based on criminal intent, they were based on something else. He was probably at the end of his rope and was very seriously contemplating suicide. We would all feel sorry for him if he had just blown his brains out wouldn't we... right now, he needs to be brought home and checked into a mental hospital. Unfortunately this will not happen and his mental issues are will only grow from here on in. It's sad really.

i hate to go against you here canuck, even though they will probably sensore this. its the same thing with pediphiles or murderers and many other " crazy thing" science has proved there brain is more or less F***** so where do you draw the line?

[GFJH]

FJH , how many times have you posted useless information about this thread?

the guy failed outta my class a few years ago (This was stated by FJH)

IMO, a stupid, f***ed up remark, If you are indeed a current student , I would keep your fingers crossed the big bosses don’t read your garbage,

If you knew this individual well, you would know he's a guy who loves and lives for aviation, period. He in my opinion was one of the nicest guys you could talk to on an early morning. Yes we all have our problems, in no way was this acceptable behavior. Nobody is perfect, and EVERYONE has their rough edges, But if you want to talk about determination, passion, and flight skills, then yes, this guy was on the road to success. The Flight Management Program at Confederation College is one of the leading Aviation programs in this country, and it is beyond unfortunate, that many others will have to suffer any denominations at the expense of someone else’s choices.

I find it amazing how CNN brands the story into him being "Turkish" , regardless of being born in another country (Not Turkey) , rather Turkish just exists in his blood line. However traditional disgusting American media, would rather the Pilot, be known as Yavuz Berke, captured after landing plane, fleeing.

I was watching for 2 minutes, Mr. Cooper on CNN, there, and he immediately linked "Turkey" to terrorism intentions. Unbelievable / disgusting. I also doubt the CIA has a bright light in his face , or for the matter rubbing salt in his beaten up flesh ,as so many here love to dramatize. The FAA / USAF probably knew the core of the situation prior to even arriving. He will most likely be escorted back to Canada where he will face the consequences.

looks like your going to miss your friend... its unfortunite, but when did i ever say anything bad about him, i said he was one of those guys nobody would have guessed would have done it, which makes no excuse for what he has done.

[20DMEYYZ]

i hope it wasn't FJH , that was one of confed's best next to the Hawk-XP ... anyone know the reg of the missing CC acft ?

i once talked to a Hornet driver who told me he could have his 18 rolling almost as fast as getting a 172 on the roll so almost any plane is vulnerable if you got the knowledge .

[Just another canuck]

i hate to go against you here canuck, even though they will probably sensore this. its the same thing with pediphiles or murderers and many other " crazy thing" science has proved there brain is more or less F***** so where do you draw the line?

You can start with pedophiles and murderers... You can't compare those to this. In most cases, depression can be cured with something as simple as a medication. I'm pretty sure you even maintain a Cat 1 as long as the Doctor deems you no threat to safety. His depression probably stemmed from his lost parents and possibly loneliness in a new country. He was probably scared to approach the situation because he is a pilot and was worried about losing his medical/dream of flying for a living.

And not all murderers have something wrong with them. Most murders are committed in a temporary fit of rage, which everyone experiences from time to time. Most just know how to control it. Pedophilia is something different all together and there's really no need to get into that.

[swervin]

We were coming back from St. Louis tonight and I heard the F-16 on guard demanding the Canadian Cessna to land immediately... Was wondering what was going on...

[pilotman15]

Is this a psychology/depression thread?

[mattedfred]

The Use of Anti-Depressant Drugs in Aviators
(the majority of this text was taken from a presentation by Dr. Adams to the Airline Pilots’
Association International Pilot Assistance Forum, Denver, 2007)
The issue of psychiatric disease, and pilots, has always been a controversial one.
Attitudes concerning this range from one extreme to the other. Some believe that no pilot
who suffers from psychiatric disease which is not completely in remission should be
permitted to fly, others feel that it is entirely appropriate that individuals whose symptoms
are adequately controlled on non-impairing medication can, and should, be permitted to
fly. This paper concerns the single most common psychiatric problem facing civil
aviation medicine today, and that is mood disorders and antidepressant medication. The
reason this issue has come to the fore of late is the fact that we now have an entirely
new family of psychiatric drugs to treat mood disorders, selective serotonin reuptake
inhibitors (and various permutations of same). Prior to the discovery of the first SSRI -
Prozac, in 1986, the standard of treatment was tricyclic antidepressant drugs. Tricyclics
were (and remain) fairly good antidepressants. The problem was their side effect profile.
Firstly they cause sedation in the majority of people who take them, as well as a whole
series of other side effects characterized by physicians as "anticholinergic". In plain
English this means dry mouth, feeling faint when you stand up quickly, some difficulties
with urinary retention or digestion, and sexual side effects. They also interacted with
other medications, and were hideously dangerous in overdose, causing serious heart
rhythm disturbances, which often proved to be resistant to treatment and ultimately fatal.
Any one of these problems was sufficient to preclude their use in aviation personnel, and
so there was no issue around relicensure.
With the dawning of modern drug treatment for mood disorders, we were suddenly faced
with a group of people who felt entirely normal, whose psychiatric symptoms were
substantially improved or nonexistent, and were maintained on a drug without significant
side effects deleterious to alertness and safety critical job performance. The problem
has never been what to do with the pilot who is treated for a mood disorder by whatever
means, recovers, and presents with six months or more of symptom-free history.
Generally, with appropriate monitoring, these people were deemed fit to return to
aviation duties. With more and more individuals being treated with these new selective
serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) the standard of care for certain mood disorders
changed. It became increasingly apparent that, although initially successful in treatment,
many individuals relapsed with a return of their symptoms. Initially it was recommended
to treat these individuals for six months, then twelve months became the norm, and
currently many psychiatrists are advocating periods longer than this, from two years to
indefinitely. What to do, then, with the aviator who is maintained successfully on longterm
antidepressant medication, side effect free, but who is told they cannot return to
their chosen occupation because of the nature of the treatment?
In order to examine this question in more detail, we have to go back to basics. Firstly,
what do we mean by mood disorders? Here, we run into one of the great dilemmas of
the late 20th century, and that is "the pathologization of everyday life". Let’s look at
mood disorders in greater detail. Mood disorders exist along a spectrum from mania,
wherein one's thought processes become chaotic, and one's mood is excessively "high"
- evidenced by irritability or frantic purposeless activities. This is called a manic episode,
and typically is linked to episodes of sadness or depression, in a disease called bipolar
disorder. Bipolar disorder, type 2, consists of less dramatic swings of mood.
Cyclothymia is less dramatic again, and dysthymia refers to individuals who are
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chronically low or sad, but not severely so. Major depression or a major depressive
episode, is described as a collection of symptoms being present for at least two weeks,
characterized by a depressed or sad mood, loss of interest or pleasure in formerly
pleasurable activities as well as disturbances in energy, sleep, appetite, concentration
and excessive guilt. A problem arises when individuals who lack sufficient psychiatric
expertise do not apply the appropriate diagnostic criteria to someone who is currently
upset or sad. Some physicians, psychologists and counselors are too quick to apply the
label "major depression" to someone who is going through a period of life in which they
are experiencing difficulties or sorrow. Sorrow is, unfortunately, a normal component of
the human condition, and does not need to be treated as a disease in most cases. As
we find more and more individuals who have been misdiagnosed, and consequently
mistreated with antidepressants, the entire area of mood disorders becomes muddied. It
behooves us, therefore, to be exceedingly careful about diagnostic labels, and treatment
plans, ensuring that a depressed individual indeed has met the appropriate DSMIV
criteria for that diagnosis.
What is DSM-IV? This stands for the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, version 4, of the
American Psychiatric Association. In it, the specific diagnostic criteria for all psychiatric
disorders are described in great detail. As I've stated, too often, these are either not
applied at all, or misapplied by individuals who lack the training. Space does not permit
me to go into the details concerning the diagnosis of major depression, but this can be
easily obtained by the interested reader by Google searching DSM-IV and depression.
However, some important background information on depression which might be of use
to the reader are as follows:
Depression affects ~10% North American males, ~20% North American females over
their lifetimes
Depression is the most prevalent cause of suicide
Suicide is the 4th leading cause of death in ages 25-44, 7th overall in North America
Depression is present in 70% of all adult suicides
Antidepressant medication is the most commonly prescribed medication class in
America – 227.3 million scripts in 2006, third in dollars of all drugs in America ($13.5
billion in 2006)
Rising 10% per year
Recurrence rates of depression are 30% < 2 yr after single episode, 50-75% after two,
effectively 100% after three.
Symptom Frequency
Depressed mood 100%
Reduced energy 97%
Impaired concentration 84%
Anorexia 80%
Insomnia 77%
Loss of Interest 77%
Agitation 67%
Indecision 67%
Suicidal Ideas 63%
3
So, looking at the data above, one can immediately see why most psychiatrists advise
treating for six or twelve months following symptom resolution for the first episode of
depression, two or three years for the second, and indefinitely for the third. This is a
disease that tends to come back. Each time it does come back, it is typically more
difficult to get people well again. This is why we are now seeing pilots who have been
advised to stay on the medication for several years, or the rest of their lives. This raises
the next question, and that is just how safe is this medication? What kind of side effects
are we seeing?
It is a bit of a myth that SSRI agents, and related compounds, do not have much in the
way of side effects. In point of fact, some of them have very significant side effects
which can impact on their use in the aviation environment. Some, such as fluvoxamine
(Luvox) have significant sedation concerns. Others such as paroxetine (Paxil) are
proving to have a troublesome discontinuation syndrome, which occurs when people
stop the drug, or miss several doses. For this reason, Transport Canada researchers
led by psychiatrist Dr. Marvin Lange, studied many different antidepressants and
selected three for further investigation. These are fluoxetine (Prozac), bupropion
(Wellbutrin) and sertraline (Zoloft). Further studies have just been done on citalopram
(Celexa) and escitalopram (Cipralex) and look promising. The first three drugs were
selected for a research project involving the careful relicensure of pilots on these agents.
The second concern, of great practical significance, is despite the fact that individuals
often feel substantially improved on these drugs, they are not, in fact, back to their
normal selves. Careful investigation has to be done to determine whether any residual
mood disorder exists, particularly in light of the fact that suicide is a significant concern
with major depression. Secondly, cognitive testing must be done to ensure that the
pilot’s alertness, and ability to multitask and use advanced skills such as working
memory are not impaired. Lastly, a significant amount of information has to be gathered
about how this disease first arose, whether outstanding psychological concerns exist,
and how compliant the pilot is with ongoing therapeutic measures as well as other forms
of treatment. Provided that the pilot passes all of the substantial requirements for entry
into the study, Transport Canada is currently relicensing certain individuals maintained
on one of the three antidepressants already mentioned. Currently, this is only being
done for category one (commercial or airline transport) pilots in a multi-crew environment
("as or with first officer"). If the outcome data look promising, it is entirely conceivable
that this will be extended to category three (private) pilots.
To give the reader an idea of how restrictive these criteria are, we currently only have six
airline transport rated pilots flying on antidepressant medication in Canada. In a parallel
study, typically 35 Department of Transport military pilots in the multi-crew environment
apply for relicensure on antidepressants each year, but less than half a dozen are
accepted. It would be a grave disservice to imply that Transport Canada was relicensing
pilots on antidepressants on a routine basis, because they are not.
Elsewhere in the world, Australia has pretty much an "open door" approach to
antidepressant use and is relicensing pilots on a routine basis using this medication.
Most other jurisdictions are starting to examine the issue, and there is some indication
that the FAA in the United States will consider a special waiver along the lines of the
Canadian criteria in the future. So, in summary – if a pilot is suffering from major
depression – there is hope. Provided that they response to the medication, should one
4
be deemed necessary, gone are the days when they must come to terms with never
being able to fly again. This paper focuses only on depression. There are many
disorders currently being treated with SSRIs and SSRI cousins. Things like obsessivecompulsive
disorder, social phobia, anxiety etc. In the future, I believe each of these will
be studied in turn, and relicensure will become the rule rather than the exception.
This is a massive topic, and much has been written about it. The following references
are supplied for those readers who wish to delve into the topic in more depth. ASEM =
Aviation, Space and Environmental Medicine, link: http://www.asma.org
1. SSRIs in Pilot Fatalities of Civil Aviation Accidents, 1990-2001; Akin et al; ASEM
74:11, Nov. 2003 1169-76
2. Aeromedical Regulation of Aviators Using SSRIs for Depressive Disorders;
Jones and Ireland, ASEM v75;5, May 2004, 461-470:
“AsMA urges all certificatory and regulatory authorities to consider
immediately instituting a policy of using study groups to manage depressed
aviators who require SSRI antidepressants. Protocols…may enable the
safe use of SSRIs in formerly depressed aviators who suffer no
aeromedically significant side effects. In these closely managed cases,
special issuances or waivers for SSRI use are justified”
3. Pharmacologic Considerations for Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor Use by Aviators; Ireland,
ASEM 2002;73:5, 421-9
4. Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors and the depressed pilot; Lange et al; ASEM 2000;71:290
(abstract)
5. Maintenance SSRI use in professional pilots: the Canadian Experience; Lange; ASEM
2002;73:24
6. Maintenance SSRI use in Professional Pilots (Panel) ASM Meeting, May 9, 2002
7. The Impact of Sertraline on Psychomotor Performance; Paul et al, ASEM 2002; 73:10,
964-70
8. SSRI in Civil Aviation, O’Neill et al, ASEM March 2006, 77:3, 247-8 (abstract)
9. Antidepressant Use for Military Aviators, Lange, ASEM 77:3, 297