Confed College Plane Goes Missing

[Cat Driver]

Any guesses to what Transport Canada's knee jerk reaction will be?

Trying to guess what TC will or will not do is like rolling dice in Vegas and calling the numbers before the dice stop.

For sure there will be some interesting things coming down the pipe from the security " experts ", in both countries.

[Johnny#5]

before landing in Missouri with about 30 minutes' worth of fuel left in the tank.

At least he didn't bust his reserves. A+ for flight planning.

no doubt!

[20DMEYYZ]

I remember an air show years ago where the F-18 was flying around at 100 knots or something... anyone correct me if I'm wrong. But yeah, seemed like a high power setting and very high AOA. I imagine the F-16 could do something similar, but again I could be wrong.

i believe it could too , just deploy max flap & let the wires do the rest . also being ANG , it prob wouldn't be tankering those ER tanks around so it would be clean for a couple slow passes , then some fast passes to intimidate and then just prob just set up some circuits above for the rest of the jounrey .
as for the Hornet , it does those high-alpha passes @ 45degrees but is capable of 60degree A/A according to Valko .
as for this joker in FJH , i wonder if he was even courteous to squak mode C , obviously he wasn't smart enough to monitor gaurd to get the msg !

[GFJH]

there are tactical disadvantages to fly that slow.

Just encase the 172 went on the offensive?

Being serious I thought they would have used a chopper to intercept a 172, when he lands and runs, they can just land and get him.

completly agreed, a f16 in slow flight is still about 3x faster , thats were canada comes into play,(like i said in an earlier post) if it was the other way around, a US C172 comming into canada we would have chased it down the street with a stick... but been just as successful

[GFJH]

Any guesses to what Transport Canada's knee jerk reaction will be?

for punishment to the college, i guess .... even crazier transport rules and regs. for the guy who did it, well to bad he was from turkey and flew to the US , i'll put $$$ on the CIA doing torture interogations on him just because of his race.

[Ludacris]

I'm sure a lot of us have fantasized about doing crazy things with airplanes (Top Gun anyone?). With a new flight simulator the first thing I always do is head downtown, fly as close as I can to buildings, under bridges, etc. Why don’t we do that in real life?

I'm sure once you've made the decision to die, all of the internal and external restraints we have that prevent us from doing that are now gone. The fact that he had enough rational thought while probably suffering hypoxia to bring the plane down safely without hurting himself or anyone else shows he's not a bad person. He's been talking openly to investigators which leads me to believe it was a cry for help. Male suicide rates can be more than five times higher than female rates most likely because of the social stigma of male depression, and this pressure was magnified by his aviation career. He had already gotten professional help before this, but he most likely sugar coated his story to avoid the loss of his medical and flying career. How many of us have wanted to seek medical attention for something and asked ourselves if it is worth it for this month's paycheck or even for our aviation career? Imagine the dilemma he was struggling with and the pressure surrounding it. Now everyone is aware of the severity of his situation and now he'll be able to talk openly and get the help he truly needs.

I can totally sympathize with what he is going through. I've suffered the loss of both parents, loss of an aviation job, gf, and lived in a foreign country with little personal support structure. Let me tell you, the pressure can be extreme at times. Everyone has their own individual breaking point. Don't be too hard on him - a lot of what happens to us is beyond our control, especially with family. We all have different ways of dealing with stress, some more effective than others. Hence the popularity of drugs (alcohol) that relax us and make us feel good. Now he'll be able to forget about the pressure aviation puts on his condition and focus on getting his life back together.

[SuperchargedRS]

I love censorship, it's what makes Canada great!

[2R]

He has busted the myth of our trigger happy neighbours

The theft charges will not stick as he was an enrolled student with a reasonable expectation to fly the schools airplanes.The school may have to modify its dispatch procedures.

As for crossing the border he has proven what a nice bunch of neighbours we have .Neighbours that acted in a calm professional manner .He should get a party for that and sent home to CYQT for medical help.

[Pratt X 3]

In my opinion, he is a douchebag for doing what he did. For me, he joins the Flying Forger as the top two candidates for the Canadian Aviation Dick Move award for 2009.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16Sq2qhX ... PL&index=5

He may be suffering from depression or whatever, but he made some conscious decisions that show forethought and malice. He could have stolen the plane and just crashed it without crossing the border. Hell, he could have just started the plane and walked into the prop if he really wanted to die. But he knew what he was doing. And doing what he did, he has furthered the cause for those who want to restrict aviation by giving them another example to keep the fear and paranoia going so they can feel important and line their pockets with more money. That loud moaning that came from the West Coast just after this story broke was the Vancouver Olympic Security Committee creaming their jeans because now they can justify that silly No-Fly Zone they are using to "protect" their Golden Cash Cow. I really am not looking forward to the new restrictions that will be put into place after this incident. I hope this gentleman someday realizes that he wasn't just trying to kill himself, he was also trying to kill aviation. And that makes him a douchebag in my book.

[Jet2099]

I'm sure a lot of us have fantasized about doing crazy things with airplanes (Top Gun anyone?). With a new flight simulator the first thing I always do is head downtown, fly as close as I can to buildings, under bridges, etc. Why don’t we do that in real life?

I'm sure once you've made the decision to die, all of the internal and external restraints we have that prevent us from doing that are now gone. The fact that he had enough rational thought while probably suffering hypoxia to bring the plane down safely without hurting himself or anyone else shows he's not a bad person. He's been talking openly to investigators which leads me to believe it was a cry for help. Male suicide rates can be more than five times higher than female rates most likely because of the social stigma of male depression, and this pressure was magnified by his aviation career. He had already gotten professional help before this, but he most likely sugar coated his story to avoid the loss of his medical and flying career. How many of us have wanted to seek medical attention for something and asked ourselves if it is worth it for this month's paycheck or even for our aviation career? Imagine the dilemma he was struggling with and the pressure surrounding it. Now everyone is aware of the severity of his situation and now he'll be able to talk openly and get the help he truly needs.

I can totally sympathize with what he is going through. I've suffered the loss of both parents, loss of an aviation job, gf, and lived in a foreign country with little personal support structure. Let me tell you, the pressure can be extreme at times. Everyone has their own individual breaking point. Don't be too hard on him - a lot of what happens to us is beyond our control, especially with family. We all have different ways of dealing with stress, some more effective than others. Hence the popularity of drugs (alcohol) that relax us and make us feel good. Now he'll be able to forget about the pressure aviation puts on his condition and focus on getting his life back together.

Well put, sir.

[MrMerth]

Personally i think its sad, too bad. Seems like hes had a rough go. Hopefully he can get some help and get his life back on track.

[Cat Driver]

Pratt X 3, if this individual was suffering from a mental disease / disorder would that not be a mitigating factor in your opinion to maybe feel some compassion for him?

[Sandy106]

Here's what your friendly neighbors to the south are saying
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hanga ... ouble.html

I agree with the guy that said give him some turbulence, that could work right?

[MrWings]

If this was a test of the air defence system, I'd say it worked pretty well. Two F-16s following a 172?

I don't think it was. Just a seriously mixed up individual.

[LegoMan]

If this was a test of the air defence system, I'd say it worked pretty well. Two F-16s following a 172?

I don't think it was. Just a seriously mixed up individual.

Are you saying the Canadian government put him up to this?

[Finn47]

Alltogether six F-16s from three separate ANG units were, in fact, involved in the chase

http://www.militaryspot.com/news/air-gu ... rcraft/599

[Just another canuck]

but he made some conscious decisions that show forethought and malice.

Sure... I guess. But he also said he flew across the border with the hopes he would be shot down. That tells me he's not in a rational state of mind. Many people who wish to commit suicide can't do it themselves, but do in fact, want to die. Look up Dr. Kevorkian. I believe he helped a few along.

Anyway, I don't think he should be charged with any crimes. He should be checked into a mental institution for some serious evaluation and help. That said, I don't think he can be convicted for these crimes anyway... he's obviously mentally unstable.

It's just too bad his current psychologist/psychiatrist/social worker (whatever he was seeing) and peers didn't pick up on the seriousness of his situation in the first place. It sounds like he cried for help on more than one occasion and if this is true, we've failed him as well and are also at partly at fault.

By no means am I condoning what he did. But the fact is he has a disease. This disease led him down this path... nothing else.

[MrWings]

Are you saying the Canadian government put him up to this?

No. There has been some speculation by others, largely driven by this person's forgein background, that he was put up to this by an untoward organization to see what he could get away with.

Like I said in the previous post, I don't think this was the case.

[MrWings]

Alltogether six F-16s from three separate ANG units were, in fact, involved in the chase

I wish Canada had Provincial ANGs with F-18s. I'd be all over that.

[Pratt X 3]

Pratt X 3, if this individual was suffering from a mental disease / disorder would that not be a mitigating factor in your opinion to maybe feel some compassion for him?

Nope, my opinion stands. He is a douchebag. Plain and simple, again, in my opinion.

But he also said he flew across the border with the hopes he would be shot down. That tells me he's not in a rational state of mind. Many people who wish to commit suicide can't do it themselves, but do in fact, want to die. Look up Dr. Kevorkian. I believe he helped a few along.

Doc Kevorkian helped terminally ill people kill themselves. Pilot Douchebag wasn't terminally ill, unless that will be his next defense. He was 'depressed', which isn't life-threatening directly but can lead to death by suicide. Look up Victim-Precipitated Homicide. I think that's the diagnose you are looking for.

My label of Douchebag sticks, again, in my opinion. Thinking of only himself, he had enough mental capacity to plan the theft. He knew either the keys would be in the plane or, more likely, knew exactly where the keys were kept and swiped them. If he really wanted to be killed by getting shot down, why not fly in such a way that he was a threat to the public. Instead, he flew above 10,000 feet for over 6 hours and before he ran out of fuel, landed safely on a road. When the F-16's didn't shoot him down when they intercepted him, why didn't he crash the plane? To me, it sounds like he was trying to get back at his girlfriend or the school or someone. The mental disease angle is just an excuse. For all the irrational behaviour he exhibited during this, there was just as much rational behaviour displayed. I'm not buying it and that's why I have no compassion for him. The rest of us will have to suffer for what he did.

[SuperchargedRS]

Between all the bleeding hearts for this CRIMINAL and the judgment of Confed, I would say that Canada is circling the drain with if you were to judge it by this.

A suicidal erratically flying student breaches another country's airspace intent on killing himself and you all want to take him home and cuddle with him? I would say that calling a "terrorist threat" is half wrong, he was a "threat" and should be dealt with accordingly

[Cat Driver]

I take it that you know this individual personally Pratt X 3 and have formed your opinion based on facts the rest of us do not know?

[Pratt X 3]

No, I do not know him personally. My opinion is based on what I have learned about him from various media reports and internet sources. Can I not form an opinion based on that or do I have to have a personal relationship with an individual before I can state my opinion of someone?

What if this was a discussion about an accident? Or some training issue? Or a certain government department? Would it be wrong for you to express your opinion about that topic based on what you read even if you didn't have personal involvement?

[MrWings]

he was a "threat" and should be dealt with accordingly

So far he has been.

[mdscientist61]

NORAD decided early on that he "did not have hostile intent" according to this quote.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0904 ... olen_plane

Now he's facing charges of transporting stolen property and illegal entry to the USA.

The "alleged" illegal entry seems quite open-and-shut.

The "alleged" transporting stolen property will hinge upon whether the judge decides that he stole the C172 or if he had some right to access the C172 as a student of the school.

With these judges, you never know what they might decide (sigh).

He's facing 10 years in a US jail before getting deported afterwards if he gets convicted of everything.

Who knows what changes are going to be put in place by the bureaucrats and politicians as a result of all this.