Confed College Plane Goes Missing

[North Shore]

The "alleged" illegal entry seems quite open-and-shut.

He's facing 10 years in a US jail before getting deported afterwards if he gets convicted of everything

Funny, if he gets off on the theft, then it's just illegal entry... there's probably a good precedent from the Mexican border of deportation and being barred from re-entry. Might get off scott-free from the Americans. I wonder what TC enforcement can get him for - failure to file a flight plan? Disregarding ATC instructions?

[MrWings]

Not sure how he can get off on the theft charge. Didn't the flight school report it stolen?

But wouldn't that be a Canadian matter anyway? Wouldn't he have to face that charge in a Canadian court?

With his state of mind in question, the Amercians would best to bar him from their country and send him back to Canada to face the music (or lack thereof) here.

[LegoMan]

He will probably get illegal entry in the U.S. max jail-time 6 months and then back to canada. since our justice system is a joke i estimate he'll be out in less than 3 years. He will however never be allowed to enter the U.S. for the rest of his life.

[Pratt X 3]

My favourite article so far:
http://www.geocities.com/oddwatch/YQTPilot.htm

Marilyn Simmons, owner of the convenience store, worried about terrorism when a relative called to tell her about the plane.
"My husband went and got his guns and gave me one," Simmons said.
She then called the store and told workers to watch out. Sure enough, Leon showed up after a young man who stopped to offer help gave him a ride.

So now I have to worry about flying into some rural US airport late at night and some local rednecks will start shooting at me thinking I'm one of those Canadian terrorists!! And you question why I have a problem with this guy?

[GFJH]

He will however never be allowed to enter the U.S. for the rest of his life.

unless he gets his hands on another plane

[LegoMan]

yea he definetly made a poor choice as to where he put it down. If he would of put it down in STL he would of at least been on t.v. nothing ever happens in St.Louis. He's lucky they didnt make a window curtain with his brains at the convinience store.

[VikVaughan]

My favourite article so far:
http://www.geocities.com/oddwatch/YQTPilot.htm

Marilyn Simmons, owner of the convenience store, worried about terrorism when a relative called to tell her about the plane.
"My husband went and got his guns and gave me one," Simmons said.
She then called the store and told workers to watch out. Sure enough, Leon showed up after a young man who stopped to offer help gave him a ride.

So now I have to worry about flying into some rural US airport late at night and some local rednecks will start shooting at me thinking I'm one of those Canadian terrorists!! And you question why I have a problem with this guy?

Finally, an excuse to try out that new John Deere standard issue tractor mounted anti-aircraft artillery.

[highlander]

Does anyone know the registration on the 172. I saw it on the news but it didn't show the registration. I flew one in similar colors in YWG as C-GPGG? Anyone know...just curious.

[GFJH]

ironically highlander it was GFJH

[Bushav8er]

I can't say for sure, but I don't think the keys were left in the planes when I was there at the old hangar.

The president (vice-prez?) herself was on TV stating that they leave the keys in the aircraft - dumb move.

[MrWings]

So now I have to worry about flying into some rural US airport late at night and some local rednecks will start shooting at me thinking I'm one of those Canadian terrorists!! And you question why I have a problem with this guy?

Holy rhetoric, Batman!

This incident changes nothing. A redneck would have shot you down before this happened anyway.

[StudentPilot]

I can't say for sure, but I don't think the keys were left in the planes when I was there at the old hangar.

The president (vice-prez?) herself was on TV stating that they leave the keys in the aircraft - dumb move.

Out of curiousity, why does everyone think the keys should be constantly removed from the planes? Typically one student finishes a flight, gets out, and as they're walking into the hangar another student is on the way out to pre-flight the plane for their flight. Sure, sometimes a plane doesn't fly right away, but I'm pretty sure there is a barbed wire fence around the airport (including the apron) and keycard type things to get into the dispatch area (and access the apron through the hangar). Maybe it should be mandatory for every single airstrip in Canada to have electric fences too? I've been to a lot of airfields where stealing a plane (including much larger planes) would be a whole lot simpler.

What if Confederation's fleet consisted of Citabrias or another type that didn't have keys, simply a couple switches for the mags and a button to start? Should FTUs with similar aircraft lock the doors after every single flight?

[Cat Driver]

What if this was a discussion about an accident? Or some training issue? Or a certain government department? Would it be wrong for you to express your opinion about that topic based on what you read even if you didn't have personal involvement?

No of course not, I was just asking if you knew him.

I actually don't know what to think about this event because it is so strange.

I do however think we are in for a lot of grief from those who have made an industry out of security.

For sure this guy just gave them lots of fuel to drive their machine.

[Bushav8er]

I can't say for sure, but I don't think the keys were left in the planes when I was there at the old hangar.

The president (vice-prez?) herself was on TV stating that they leave the keys in the aircraft - dumb move.

Out of curiousity, why does everyone think the keys should be constantly removed from the planes? Typically one student finishes a flight, gets out, and as they're walking into the hangar another student is on the way out to pre-flight the plane for their flight. Sure, sometimes a plane doesn't fly right away, but I'm pretty sure there is a barbed wire fence around the airport (including the apron) and keycard type things to get into the dispatch area (and access the apron through the hangar). Maybe it should be mandatory for every single airstrip in Canada to have electric fences too? I've been to a lot of airfields where stealing a plane (including much larger planes) would be a whole lot simpler.

What if Confederation's fleet consisted of Citabrias or another type that didn't have keys, simply a couple switches for the mags and a button to start? Should FTUs with similar aircraft lock the doors after every single flight?

Why? Because it maintains some control over their use. Those that have keys should be removed. Those that don't need keys should be locked - its not that hard to turn a key. I agree that there are a lot of aircraft that are very easy to 'steal' but it comes down to doing what you can to reduce the risk. Most places I've been have a sign-out system that includes the aircraft 'board' and keys. Even if its to be flown again away right the keys should be returned and signed out by the next person. What do you suppose an insurance company would say if you answered "but it was supposed to be going out again"? Sorry, you didn't do all you could to prevent its thief.

This from the AOPA on the incident -

...College officials have told the media that it was a common practice for keys to be left in their unlocked training aircraft. Flight schools in the United States follow strict security guidelines that would have prevented such an incident from occurring here.

“This incident highlights the need for U.S. schools to follow the flight school security guidelines and for pilots to participate in the joint TSA-AOPA Airport Watch Program,” said Craig Spence, AOPA vice president of regulatory affairs. “Airport Watch reminds pilots to lock their aircraft and look for and report suspicious activity at their airports.”

Airport Watch has a toll-free hotline (866/GA-SECUR[E]) for pilots to report suspicious activity or people. The program has been hailed by Congress and has proven effective in the U.S.

“This situation could easily have been prevented by following Airport Watch guidelines,” Spence reiterated, “and it should prompt every GA pilot, airport, and flight school to review their security procedures and make sure they are voluntarily doing their part to keep our airports and aircraft secure.”

[GForce]

In this particular case, it is important to remember that this was a student from Confed. Not someone over the fence that didn't belong anywhere near the place. If the keys were on a 'sign-out' system, all this fella had to do was wait a few more hours (or days) until he was heading out for some solo flight time. After his clearance for departure, he just scoots right on past the practice area and heads off in the same manner that he did. This is a very difficult scenario to prevent because anyone, and I mean virtually anyone in Canada who is a flight student and is heading out in their trainer aircraft could do the exact same thing after they 'sign-out' their plane. Keys on the wall with a locked door on the aircraft will just be a 'bandaid' fix. It will certainly slow down the guy on the outside of the fence but it won't stop some suicidal or deranged individual with a student pilot permit or private, etc.

[Slappy the Squirrel]

I have a couple points. First off, I've either taught or attended 5 different flight schools, every single one left the keys in the airplane inbetween flights, and kept them inside their dispatch at night. So sure, maybe they could have done more to prevent the theft of the aircraft, but really you could always do more no matter what precautions you take.
Secondly, any student could take an airplane for a joyride down to the states if they felt so inclined. Just because an instructor only gives the keys to the student after they were signed out to go do some solo circuits, once they're in the air you can't stop them from doing anything. So although he jumped the fence and grabbed the keys in the airplane, if the keys were kept inside he would have just had to wait until the next time he went solo.

There is no completely fool proof way of protecting against this. If a person really wants to get an airplane to do something stupid with, they will one way or another. I think so anyway. I think it's actually surprising this sort of thing doesn't happen more often.

[Pratt X 3]

So now I have to worry about flying into some rural US airport late at night and some local rednecks will start shooting at me thinking I'm one of those Canadian terrorists!! And you question why I have a problem with this guy?

Holy rhetoric, Batman!
This incident changes nothing. A redneck would have shot you down before this happened anyway.

No, I'm not Batman. And this just gives the rednecks an excuse now.

I do however think we are in for a lot of grief from those who have made an industry out of security.
For sure this guy just gave them lots of fuel to drive their machine.

Exactly my point. Aviation has taken a sh*tkicking in the past 10 years or so and the only people benefiting from it are those people who profit off the so-called security. I formed my opinion based on his actions and not his claim of mental illness.

[sky_flyer]

can't wait for the ties between his birthplace of Turkey and Obama being in Turkey being seen as a direct terrorist threat lol

And Obama had an assassination attempt on him... see the misc. forum. I posted the link.

obviously a 31 year old canadian citizen flying a 172 down the mid-u.s. lol

I JUST WONDER WHAT FUN HOOPS PILOTS R GOING TO HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH BECAUSE OF THIS IM SURE THE GOVERNMENT WILL THINK OF SOMETHING INTERESTING

[LegoMan]

keys should be with the aircraft documents that should be both returned by the student when the flight is done and given to the next student when the aircraft is dispatched.

[StudentPilot]

I was mostly wondering if locking planes is common, because I've found the same as Slappy so far. I've rented/trained at four FTUs and worked for a couple 703/704 companies, and Confederation would probably be the most difficult to steal a plane from. Some places lock the hangar/plane and put the keys in an office at night. One place had the keys and documents removed after every flight, but no one was normally in the office and any renters could enter it whenever they wanted and take the keys. Another place always leaves one (if not all) doors unlocked with the keys in the plane 24/7. I guess we'll soon find a new CAR requiring all planes to be locked whenever not directly supervised by the PIC...

[Just another canuck]

A few others, as well as myself, already pointed out the most important fact. If you really want to steal the plane, as a PPL, CPL, whatever and do something like this, there is nothing and I mean NOTHING that can stop you.

Locking the plane or storing the keys may have stopped the incident today, but what about tomorrow. I'm actually surprised he stole it the way he did. Why not just wait until you're scheduled for your next solo? Or he could go rent a plane and do it.

By handing out licenses or permits we are trusting these people with our aircraft and that's all we really can do.

The only extra step that could be fit in now is a psychological examination prior to obtaining your license/medical, but that doesn't mean you won't snap down the road. You can't give a persona psych test every time they go flying.

Like I said, no real efforts can be made to stop this from happening. We can only hope it doesn't happen again.

[Cat Driver]

I am flying a new Husky and it came from the factory with no door locks so how can I lock it?

If we put a locking mechanism in the door and a mechanism to lock the sliding windows it would need an STC or LSTC to do so.

[Finn47]

That´s a 23 mm Russian made "Sergey" ack-ack gun on the tractor, by the way. Seen them in action, shooting tracers into the night sky. Great fun.

[pilotman15]

Heard a story of a guy who put some nice extras into his plane that was tied-down at uncontrolled airport. To ensure safety of his plane, he locked the doors of course. Wandered in the next morning to find the window broken and the extras gone. Rather than having to replace just the extras, he also needed a new window . One could suggest that locking the plane does nothing, as once you have the keys, locks are useless.

Also, let's say you flew the plane last and the keys "accidently" went missing during the time you finished flying while walking back to the hangar. Any FTU still looking to make a profit would bust out the spare keys immediately, and worst case scenario for the one who "lost the keys" would be to pay for a new set. The key "loser" could then take the "lost keys" and grab the plane and go. At a place like government subsidized place like confed, i would doubt that any charge would be laid to the key "loser." However, I can only assume.

Funny, if he gets off on the theft, then it's just illegal entry... there's probably a good precedent from the Mexican border of deportation and being barred from re-entry. Might get off scott-free from the Americans. I wonder what TC enforcement can get him for - failure to file a flight plan? Disregarding ATC instructions?

Student pilot permit in the US airspace (assuming CNN's statements of only a few hours of training)
oxygen requirements
unauthorized entry into certain classes of airspace,
endangering human life (minimum distances etc.)
endangering property (minimum distances again)
minimum fuel requirements (landed at night, needed more reserve then 30 min)
not 100% sure of flight path, but crossing water without proper floatation devices

just to name a few more.

[niss]

http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/ps ... kChain.php