New rfp for all alberta medevac

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Rightseatdriver
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#101 Post by Rightseatdriver » Fri May 19, 2017 10:05 pm

Mr.t wrote:All pilots at canwest and Aca will be sized for helmets just like stars pilots. New Abh standard.
I can also confirm this, and no this is not a joke.
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#102 Post by ahramin » Sat May 20, 2017 2:05 pm

Rightseatdriver wrote:
Mr.t wrote:All pilots at canwest and Aca will be sized for helmets just like stars pilots. New Abh standard.
I can also confirm this, and no this is not a joke.
Interesting. How many injuries have there been in Medevac King Air aircraft in the last 20 years that would have been prevented by a helmet?
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#103 Post by Cessna driver » Sat May 20, 2017 3:00 pm

Rightseatdriver wrote:
Mr.t wrote:All pilots at canwest and Aca will be sized for helmets just like stars pilots. New Abh standard.
I can also confirm this, and no this is not a joke.
I want to be just like STARS...said no one ever
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#104 Post by Cobra64 » Sat May 20, 2017 7:43 pm

ahramin wrote:
Rightseatdriver wrote:
Mr.t wrote:All pilots at canwest and Aca will be sized for helmets just like stars pilots. New Abh standard.
I can also confirm this, and no this is not a joke.
Interesting. How many injuries have there been in Medevac King Air aircraft in the last 20 years that would have been prevented by a helmet?
I've had the sun visor come lose and bonk my head during take off...
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#105 Post by Joepilot1304 » Sun May 21, 2017 11:34 am

Just curious if anyone knows this but I heard someone once say that norther air charters aircraft aren't even owned by northern air. They are owned by some consortium out of the USA. Can anyone clarify?
If that is the case why would the government want to pay a American company over a Canadian?
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#106 Post by ditar » Sun May 21, 2017 6:11 pm

Lots of operators lease their aircraft. That is irrelevant.
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#107 Post by Flaps2 » Mon May 22, 2017 12:36 pm

Rightseatdriver wrote:
Mr.t wrote:All pilots at canwest and Aca will be sized for helmets just like stars pilots. New Abh standard.
I can also confirm this, and no this is not a joke.
prototypes will look like these. Rumour that only pilot flying will have to wear it. King air pilots will have to share.

Image
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#108 Post by Pt6-42 » Mon May 22, 2017 12:52 pm

I was hopefull for a raise but with the way things are sounding in negoiations.... i dont think so anymore.
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#109 Post by Joepilot1304 » Mon May 22, 2017 7:19 pm

Did integra and NAC bid new 250's in the RFP, like Canwest did? If they didn't I could see this being a major deciding factor.
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#110 Post by Lvnedo » Tue May 23, 2017 3:43 pm

The latest article from the Medicine Hat News paper:

http://medicinehatnews.com/news/local-n ... h-canwest/
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#111 Post by Joepilot1304 » Tue May 23, 2017 4:31 pm

So obviously land seems to be the issue here. But my question is why wouldn't either town try to help AHS provide a better service to that city? (Medicine Hat or peace river)

If CanWest is offering state of the art king air 250s with brand new equipment, capable of transporting patients farther, much faster, and being able to carry a larger payload. Why are people trying to stop this. As a resident in one of these towns I welcome having the best equipment.

If the rumours that I hear are true and integra and NAC only offered their old clapped out machines, this decision makes perfect sense.

If there is land available at the airport and the towns are making it difficult for a new operator to come in, the towns are the problem. Why are the towns making it difficult? Are they in bed with the air operators here? I honestly can't see what the problem is here. All the town needs to do is ok a land purchase or lease, it shouldn't matter who that company is.

I get it these companies have been in place for a while, but if they can't provide the best service to that community with the best equipment available, why would you want them to be providing the service?

As for the scheduled service in peace river, like the press release says from Canwest, they are excited To provide a scheduled service. So even if NAC can't continue to provide a sched there would be one available. I also haven't seen anywhere that NAC is planning to stop their sched service. Guess what that means? Potentially Better prices for sched flights because of this new competition.

Not to mention the 2million dollar government grant would stay in place. That is if having a scheduled service is the only requirement for that grant.
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#112 Post by sfostersa » Tue May 23, 2017 10:06 pm

Joepilot1304 That was very well put. I am not going to make any assumptions here and for those who read this time will tell if there is anything to it. I worked for a charter company in a small town several years ago. The owner of the company knew the mayor of this town quite well. Not because he was the mayor, but because they both lived there for many years and were friends. In small towns everybody knows everybody in some capacity especially if you've lived there all your life. There's often a you scratch my back I'll scratch yours unwritten philosophy among your neighbors. As I said I'm not assuming anything here but it was true in the town I worked in. When I read the media quotes anyone who stands up for these towns seems very short and defensive. Can West is an outsider so the people in these towns don't like it anymore than the average canadian would want to be part of the 51st state. Anyhow I see their point of view, Joepilot1304 you said it pretty good. Positive change is good for everybody. For those affected negatively it does suck. But look 2 years back when the economy went in the tank. Most of us are still here and figure out a way to make it work. Change here if it happens would be no different and would affect the majority in a positive way. King Air 250's with state of the art equipment and services is hard to say no to.
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#113 Post by Cessna driver » Wed May 24, 2017 2:04 am

sfostersa wrote:. King Air 250's with state of the art equipment and services is hard to say no to.
How about severely underpaid pilots to fly these? CW new captain rate is a joke, and a slap in the face to all their staff. Good luck keeping captains around, let alone F/Os
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#114 Post by co-joe » Wed May 24, 2017 2:18 am

Joepilot1304 wrote: If CanWest is offering state of the art king air 250s with brand new equipment, capable of transporting patients farther, much faster, and being able to carry a larger payload. Why are people trying to stop this. As a resident in one of these towns I welcome having the best equipment.

If the rumours that I hear are true and integra and NAC only offered their old clapped out machines, this decision makes perfect sense.

...
Every company that bid, had to do do so for the 250 and late model 200's. For some reason, AB Health seems determined to put all their eggs in one Canwest basket and seems convinced that the 250 is the right machine for the job.

The suggestion that the 250 is the right aircraft, to me means they have no idea what its limitations are. It has considerably less useful load than a 200, same landing weight, only heavier takeoff weight if you pay for a paper STC which effectively means you're cutting safety margins thinner on short runways, (heavier airframe, engines, seats...).

It's marginally faster, however with the stage lengths the fleet is doing it's questionable if any time savings will be achieved, (Late 200 270 KTAS, BE250 315 KTAS )

So it's only 45 Ktas faster which on a 250 nm leg, (the average leg to YEG) is 8 minutes savings but you have to climb to 350 to save it). It has more range if you leave the medics and the patient behind to make room for fuel, but aside from the YEG and YYC machines doing baby teams nobody needs more range. YMM, YOJ, YLB, YZH, YPE, and YQU to YEG is still the same number of miles away as they were yesterday.


Some slick salesman at Beechcraft, convinced a bunch of non pilot paramedics, nurses, and doctors that the 250 is the be all and end all and I think they're making a huge mistake.
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#115 Post by goingnowherefast » Wed May 24, 2017 5:51 am

Cessna driver wrote:How about severely underpaid pilots to fly these? CW new captain rate is a joke, and a slap in the face to all their staff. Good luck keeping captains around, let alone F/Os
What is the new pay scale like, captains and FOs? I assume the requirements are unchanged?
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#116 Post by Rotorwash » Wed May 24, 2017 7:27 am

Everyone Ive heard offered King air 250s (why i have no idea) and co-Joe is 100% right there not the shinny penny that they appear to be, yes there new but they cost 8 million Canadian or so...and whose going to foot the bill..you and i Alberta taxpayers.
Aircraft age has never been a problem if there maintained properly.
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#117 Post by Cessna driver » Wed May 24, 2017 10:12 am

goingnowherefast wrote:
Cessna driver wrote:How about severely underpaid pilots to fly these? CW new captain rate is a joke, and a slap in the face to all their staff. Good luck keeping captains around, let alone F/Os
What is the new pay scale like, captains and FOs? I assume the requirements are unchanged?[/quote]

I won't post yet, but its sickening, Second year Encore F/Os are making more than captains.
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#118 Post by Rightseatdriver » Wed May 24, 2017 12:02 pm

Cessna driver wrote:
goingnowherefast wrote:
Cessna driver wrote:How about severely underpaid pilots to fly these? CW new captain rate is a joke, and a slap in the face to all their staff. Good luck keeping captains around, let alone F/Os
What is the new pay scale like, captains and FOs? I assume the requirements are unchanged?
I won't post yet, but its sickening, Second year Encore F/Os are making more than captains.[/quote]

You should probably put the pay scale up. That's gross. I was hearing rumours that there will be a pay increase ? Not true then?

Also the year and a half long bond for the king air is a joke too.
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#119 Post by Lvnedo » Thu May 25, 2017 9:50 am

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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#120 Post by Joepilot1304 » Thu May 25, 2017 7:04 pm

...[/quote]

Every company that bid, had to do do so for the 250 and late model 200's. For some reason, AB Health seems determined to put all their eggs in one Canwest basket and seems convinced that the 250 is the right machine for the job.

The suggestion that the 250 is the right aircraft, to me means they have no idea what its limitations are. It has considerably less useful load than a 200, same landing weight, only heavier takeoff weight if you pay for a paper STC which effectively means you're cutting safety margins thinner on short runways, (heavier airframe, engines, seats...).

It's marginally faster, however with the stage lengths the fleet is doing it's questionable if any time savings will be achieved, (Late 200 270 KTAS, BE250 315 KTAS )

So it's only 45 Ktas faster which on a 250 nm leg, (the average leg to YEG) is 8 minutes savings but you have to climb to 350 to save it). It has more range if you leave the medics and the patient behind to make room for fuel, but aside from the YEG and YYC machines doing baby teams nobody needs more range. YMM, YOJ, YLB, YZH, YPE, and YQU to YEG is still the same number of miles away as they were yesterday.

.[/quote]

Have you even read the AFM on the Limitations with the halo kit installed? The halo kit does require more equiptment to be installed. http://www.centex.aero/halo-250 This is a link to the STC.

Here is the required safety equiptment to be installed:
Takeoff Trim Warning,
Over-Speed Warning,
Engine Fire Extinguisher System,
Stall Warning Ice Mode.
Emergency Cabin Lighting.
Escape Path Markings.

So less safe? mmmmm dont think so.

Its true you will need more runway when you are operating in the 13,420lbs range but lets be honest, the only time this is going to happen is when extra fuel is required to go farther, as your max landing weight is still 12,500. When the large distances are being covered its going to be a 5000+ foot runway on either end most likely.

45 KTAS is huge! If you do 100 250nm flights that aprox 13.5 hours saved. You also do not need to climb to FL350 to see these numbers. This plane has huge range with the Halo kit. If you are flying from 5000' strip to 5000' strip you would have no problem fueling right up and going a stupid distance.(obviously there would be restrictions on smaller runways)

BEW of BE20s flying in Alberta is aprox 8100lbs - 8600lbs this means a useful load of 4400 - 3900 lbs.
The BEW of Kingair 250s are aprox 8800 (bigger engines my guess). at a 13,420 lbs Gross weight thats at least 4,620 useful load. Now keep in mind the basic empty weights that they have out there include all the furnishings and big leather seats. I would suspect a medivac configured aircraft would weigh less. So lets say 8500lbs thats would make a usful load 4920lbs. sooooo definetly better so long as you burn at least 900lbs of fuel in your flight. and still better if you only burn a normal 650-700lbs per flight.

My 2 cents.
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#121 Post by Joepilot1304 » Thu May 25, 2017 7:11 pm

Rotorwash wrote:Everyone Ive heard offered King air 250s (why i have no idea) and co-Joe is 100% right there not the shinny penny that they appear to be, yes there new but they cost 8 million Canadian or so...and whose going to foot the bill..you and i Alberta taxpayers.
Aircraft age has never been a problem if there maintained properly.
I agree aircraft which are maintained well do preform. but lets be honest the future for aviation is automation and technology. the Proline fusion suit that comes with the 250's has everything from TCAS2, Synthetic Vision, touch screens, Flight path Vectors, WAAS, FMS, ADS-B capabilities, and a proper Auto pilot.
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#122 Post by goingnowherefast » Fri May 26, 2017 7:48 am

A 1990s vintage B200 with the Halo kit and a modern glass cockpit will be substantially cheaper and have a lower empty weight than a new 250. This means even more in the cabin and just as much fuel in the wings.

There's so many mods for the King Air 200 series, you can basically take an old clapped out early model 200 and turn it into a brand new 250. ZFW increase, gross weight increase, PT6a-42, -52 or -61 engines are all available. Then, only your imagination limits the avionics you can get.
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#123 Post by co-joe » Fri May 26, 2017 7:02 pm

Joepilot1304 wrote: Have you even read the AFM on the Limitations with the halo kit installed? The halo kit does require more equiptment to be installed. http://www.centex.aero/halo-250 This is a link to the STC.

Here is the required safety equiptment to be installed:
Takeoff Trim Warning,
Over-Speed Warning,
Engine Fire Extinguisher System,
Stall Warning Ice Mode.
Emergency Cabin Lighting.
Escape Path Markings.

So less safe? mmmmm dont think so.

Its true you will need more runway when you are operating in the 13,420lbs range but lets be honest, the only time this is going to happen is when extra fuel is required to go farther, as your max landing weight is still 12,500. When the large distances are being covered its going to be a 5000+ foot runway on either end most likely.

45 KTAS is huge! If you do 100 250nm flights that aprox 13.5 hours saved. You also do not need to climb to FL350 to see these numbers. This plane has huge range with the Halo kit. If you are flying from 5000' strip to 5000' strip you would have no problem fueling right up and going a stupid distance.(obviously there would be restrictions on smaller runways)...

My 2 cents.
Gross weight is higher, landing weight is the same. That means you have to burn off the difference. In other words, if you take off at 13 420, you need to burn 920 pounds before you can land! Ha Ha Ha how can you not see that's impossible? The YMM, YLB, YZH, YQU, YOJ, and YPE planes won't be able to land in Edmonton any-more and they certainly won't be able to land anywhere in between and take on patients. :lol:

AB Health machines don't fly from 5000' strip to 5000' strip. Where do you get that idea? They fly into lots of 3000' strips and then need the fuel to get to YEG with YYC as the alternate.
BEW of BE20s flying in Alberta is aprox 8100lbs - 8600lbs this means a useful load of 4400 - 3900 lbs.
The BEW of Kingair 250s are aprox 8800 (bigger engines my guess). at a 13,420 lbs Gross weight thats at least 4,620 useful load. Now keep in mind the basic empty weights that they have out there include all the furnishings and big leather seats. I would suspect a medivac configured aircraft would weigh less. So lets say 8500lbs thats would make a usful load 4920lbs. sooooo definetly better so long as you burn at least 900lbs of fuel in your flight. and still better if you only burn a normal 650-700lbs per flight.
The 250 is 8800 Lbs in executive configuration. Now add a 2000 psi O2 tank, 2 life port stretchers, 300 Lbs of medic gear, a clip deck and slide, 2 male medics, 2 male pilots.

Now your useful loads are way off because you need to be able to make a 20 minute flight , land at a 3000x75' strip, take on a 300 Lb patient, not die taking off at 25 degrees celcius, and then fly to YEG with YYC as the alternate.

The issue with the 20 minute flight is that it doesn't burn 900 Lbs worth of gas. More like 200 Lbs. The 250 is nearly useless here, and the Halo kit doesn't help it meet the mission in Alberta. BC great. SK, MB great. The legs in AB are too short. Range has never been a issue. Bariatric people and useful load are.
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#124 Post by Rightseatdriver » Sat May 27, 2017 10:24 am

Flaps2 wrote:
Rightseatdriver wrote:
Mr.t wrote:All pilots at canwest and Aca will be sized for helmets just like stars pilots. New Abh standard.
I can also confirm this, and no this is not a joke.
prototypes will look like these. Rumour that only pilot flying will have to wear it. King air pilots will have to share.

Image
"Oh so you do Medevac flying, do you like work for Stars?"
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Re: New rfp for all alberta medevac

#125 Post by Go Guns » Mon May 29, 2017 11:33 am

Putting all your eggs in one basket is stupid. I would tell Alberta to ask BC, but apparently, BC has forgotten.

The above article where they interview Les Little, I agree with everything he says except this

"If you went out on the street today and said we need 11 airplanes to cover the air ambulance program, it would not happen overnight,” said Little. “It would probably be at least 30 days.”

You could have 11 airplanes all over Alberta in a matter of hours, if you're willing to pay for it. So it's a risk, but more of an organization/financial risk than anything.
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