PML 2.0

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atphat
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Re: PML 2.0

#51 Post by atphat » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:50 pm

dialdriver wrote:How come I have to ride the brakes whenever I taxi behind Jazz?
This has to be the first time anyone has ever complained Jazz taxis too slow. If your riding the brakes behind a Jazz aircraft you must be scaring the hell out of your passengers.
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mbav8r
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Re: PML 2.0

#52 Post by mbav8r » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:07 pm

Boreas wrote:I'm definetly not part of team-teal, but I love how WestJet is being bashed on a thread about the PML. Haha, 'they lied'. So Jazz!

What was the wind gradient during that descent, mbav8r?
How quickly did you slow to 250?
What was the vertical separation?
How much of TAS difference was there?
Was the controller new by any chance?
I edited my post to reflect that it was my opinion they were lying, to answer your questions, there was no doubt in our minds they didn't speed up but, how quickly we slowed is irrelevant because the gap was closing while we were at 250, same arrival we stepped down basically 2000 feet above them the whole way. We could've overtaken them quite easily, we started out 15 miles back and at 5 miles that's when we were slowed to 230.
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mbav8r
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Re: PML 2.0

#53 Post by mbav8r » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:15 pm

flyinhigh wrote:All AC/Jazz drivers bitch about WestJets descent being so slow. Guess what, it's SOP and saves a shit ton in fuel.

Just because your SOP is .74/290 doesn't mean it's right. I flew the RJ for 5 years and know first hand it's not an effiecient descent profile. The big difference is that Jazz management gets paid when the plane leaves and arrives, they could care less about costs such as fuel.
Your SOP is your SOP, we are flying our SOP and getting delays behind you, however if my assumptions are correct and a couple of your pilots did not increase their speed as per ATCs request, why not say unable and we could have been vectored around them. I could care less what speed you're flying but don't lie about it.
Also, we are all paid for our on time performance and with tight turns a 10 min delay will affect more than just the one flight. It's also not true they could care less about fuel, we fly a cost index which balances fuel cost among other things but yes some big bonuses are handed out for performance.
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Re: PML 2.0

#54 Post by Black_Tusk » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:18 pm

mbav8r wrote:
Boreas wrote:I'm definetly not part of team-teal, but I love how WestJet is being bashed on a thread about the PML. Haha, 'they lied'. So Jazz!

What was the wind gradient during that descent, mbav8r?
How quickly did you slow to 250?
What was the vertical separation?
How much of TAS difference was there?
Was the controller new by any chance?
I edited my post to reflect that it was my opinion they were lying, to answer your questions, there was no doubt in our minds they didn't speed up but, how quickly we slowed is irrelevant because the gap was closing while we were at 250, same arrival we stepped down basically 2000 feet above them the whole way. We could've overtaken them quite easily, we started out 15 miles back and at 5 miles that's when we were slowed to 230.
I can count on numerous hands the amount of times this has happened while I've been flying into YVR. 2000 foot step downs etc, then a vector off, back on etc... and still gaining. Then an eventual slow to 230-250kts. Now a nice planned power off decent becomes a power on descent.
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fish4life
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Re: PML 2.0

#55 Post by fish4life » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:30 pm

atphat wrote:
dialdriver wrote:How come I have to ride the brakes whenever I taxi behind Jazz?
This has to be the first time anyone has ever complained Jazz taxis too slow. If your riding the brakes behind a Jazz aircraft you must be scaring the hell out of your passengers.
I've personally heard a YYZ controller and Jazz pilot get into an argument about how slow he was taxing so some people probably taxi and different speeds.
As for speeds if one is flying idle that doesn't necessarily mean it is efficient, although SOP is SOP if the company wants something done then they probably have a reason for it. Flying faster than the best L/D ratio though is less efficient.
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dialdriver
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Re: PML 2.0

#56 Post by dialdriver » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:27 pm

atphat wrote:
dialdriver wrote:How come I have to ride the brakes whenever I taxi behind Jazz?
This has to be the first time anyone has ever complained Jazz taxis too slow. If your riding the brakes behind a Jazz aircraft you must be scaring the hell out of your passengers.
I said ride the brakes, not stomp on them. It's the only way I can keep from running into the Jazz guy I am stuck following.
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Re: PML 2.0

#57 Post by Black_Tusk » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:56 pm

dialdriver wrote:
atphat wrote:
dialdriver wrote:How come I have to ride the brakes whenever I taxi behind Jazz?
This has to be the first time anyone has ever complained Jazz taxis too slow. If your riding the brakes behind a Jazz aircraft you must be scaring the hell out of your passengers.
I said ride the brakes, not stomp on them. It's the only way I can keep from running into the Jazz guy I am stuck following.
Now you know how it feels to be stuck behind a slow aircraft.
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pilotsmack89
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Re: PML 2.0

#58 Post by pilotsmack89 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:12 pm

Black_Tusk wrote:
dialdriver wrote:
atphat wrote:
This has to be the first time anyone has ever complained Jazz taxis too slow. If your riding the brakes behind a Jazz aircraft you must be scaring the hell out of your passengers.
I said ride the brakes, not stomp on them. It's the only way I can keep from running into the Jazz guy I am stuck following.
Now you know how it feels to be stuck behind a slow aircraft.
Ha!
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goingnowherefast
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Re: PML 2.0

#59 Post by goingnowherefast » Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:55 pm

This has got to be the most tedious thread drift in history.
"Oh, WJ made me slow down"
"Well Jazz made me slow down"
My lord your lives must be boring if you complain about such menial shit.
So how about PML 2.0?
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checkremarks
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Re: PML 2.0

#60 Post by checkremarks » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:30 am

What we know so far is that AC has planned a GS in July, September, October and November. No GS in December. Also, AC is finalising a second GS in October which will lead to 5 by end of year of 20 each. 270 Jazz Pilots on the FPML and they are planning on taking 12 FPML per GS, however, this will be interesting to see as there are around 50 PML Deferrals still to go by January of next year. Also, there are currently 142 vacancies at AC just on the Airbus, just in YYZ. We just need to be patient and enjoy your time at Jazz!
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iamnomaverick
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Re: PML 2.0

#61 Post by iamnomaverick » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:56 am

goingnowherefast wrote:This has got to be the most tedious thread drift in history.
"Oh, WJ made me slow down"
"Well Jazz made me slow down"
My lord your lives must be boring if you complain about such menial shit.
So how about PML 2.0?
Exactly! It is the new kind of airline pilots... Makes me miss the days when pilots had to spend upwards of 8 years up north and have 5000+ hours before they could even dream of the right seat on a 705 machine.
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tallyho
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Re: PML 2.0

#62 Post by tallyho » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:01 am

Hey all, i have an upcoming video interview. Can someone provide we with some info about what to expect? Much appreciated, Tallyho
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Flyguy13
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Re: PML 2.0

#63 Post by Flyguy13 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:56 am

tallyho wrote:Hey all, i have an upcoming video interview. Can someone provide we with some info about what to expect? Much appreciated, Tallyho

There's a thread just below this one called video interview take a look there a lot of information
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tallyho
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Re: PML 2.0

#64 Post by tallyho » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:26 pm

Thanks Flyguy, not sure how i missed that
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Rowdy
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Re: PML 2.0

#65 Post by Rowdy » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:30 pm

So by my count, there are still what, 105ish left from V1.0 here? How many are going to stay? How many are going to move across?

I also looked at the most recent list. 581 here on the new contract. Thats almost half the pilot populace.. and add another 15-20 every 3 weeks....
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Re: PML 2.0

#66 Post by atphat » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:44 pm

iamnomaverick wrote:
goingnowherefast wrote:This has got to be the most tedious thread drift in history.
"Oh, WJ made me slow down"
"Well Jazz made me slow down"
My lord your lives must be boring if you complain about such menial shit.
So how about PML 2.0?
Exactly! It is the new kind of airline pilots... Makes me miss the days when pilots had to spend upwards of 8 years up north and have 5000+ hours before they could even dream of the right seat on a 705 machine.
You miss that? Why?
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goingnowherefast
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Re: PML 2.0

#67 Post by goingnowherefast » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:44 pm

Because then they appreciated what they had. They look back on their hard work and fond memories from their past. When you used to fight with customers over loads, something like the plane in front taxiing a little slow doesn't even raise an eyebrow. You are making 43 grand starting base pay on a dash classic with a green "Jazz" written in funny letters across the side. Dispatch makes the flight plans and decides what goes in the back. No fighting with Joe Public about his suit case anymore. The plane breaks? Well call maintenance, don't have to break into the terminal after hours and argue with the on-call mechanic when he says "oh just fly it home, you'll be fine".

Now, there are 1000hr FOs who just raced through their first 703 company. Quit half way through their upgrade training, screwing their boss and now go on the internet and complain that yesterday a plane taxiied slowly.
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Rupert_Pupkin
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Re: PML 2.0

#68 Post by Rupert_Pupkin » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:59 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:Because then they appreciated what they had. They look back on their hard work and fond memories from their past. When you used to fight with customers over loads, something like the plane in front taxiing a little slow doesn't even raise an eyebrow. You are making 43 grand starting base pay on a dash classic with a green "Jazz" written in funny letters across the side. Dispatch makes the flight plans and decides what goes in the back. No fighting with Joe Public about his suit case anymore. The plane breaks? Well call maintenance, don't have to break into the terminal after hours and argue with the on-call mechanic when he says "oh just fly it home, you'll be fine".

Now, there are 1000hr FOs who just raced through their first 703 company. Quit half way through their upgrade training, screwing their boss and now go on the internet and complain that yesterday a plane taxiied slowly.
I wish I was making 43 thousand!
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Re: PML 2.0

#69 Post by Tail-Chaser » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:55 am

goingnowherefast wrote:Because then they appreciated what they had. They look back on their hard work and fond memories from their past. When you used to fight with customers over loads, something like the plane in front taxiing a little slow doesn't even raise an eyebrow. You are making 43 grand starting base pay on a dash classic with a green "Jazz" written in funny letters across the side. Dispatch makes the flight plans and decides what goes in the back. No fighting with Joe Public about his suit case anymore. The plane breaks? Well call maintenance, don't have to break into the terminal after hours and argue with the on-call mechanic when he says "oh just fly it home, you'll be fine".

Now, there are 1000hr FOs who just raced through their first 703 company. Quit half way through their upgrade training, screwing their boss and now go on the internet and complain that yesterday a plane taxiied slowly.
Maybe because they value being closer to family? Actual benefits? Starting wages that are still better than their 703 pittance? I dunno, basically every aspect of 705? They sure seemed to appreciate 705 life enough to know 703 had little to offer them.
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Re: PML 2.0

#70 Post by infiniteregulus » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:16 am

I don't think a fresh CPL would distinguish the different nuances of 705 vs 703 but rather the total image associated with the company and the one that hires first. You don't have to read AC's CBA to assume it's probably better than what flying a 172 can offer. Not to mention to the big shinny metal! :lol:
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Hudson
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Re: PML 2.0

#71 Post by Hudson » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:04 am

Does anyone here know if Jazz has had to ask AC to slow down the number of people being hired from the PML?
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