Emirates Information Sessions

[Emirates Pilot]

Come see us at our pilot information sessions in Canada. Natalie, Rowena and I present across the country in June.

We have all the latest information on Pilot Careers with Emirates including the new SkyCargo Contract with increased days off.

YYZ on Thursday 8th and Friday 9th of June: Chelsea Hotel, 33 Gerrard St West
YYC on Saturday 10th and Sunday 11th June: Delta by Marriott Hotel Downtown, 209 4 Ave SE
YVR on Monday 12th and Tuesday 13th June: Fairmont Vancouver, 900 W Georgia St

See all the times and details via our quick link for pilots: www.emirates.com/pilots

The sessions are open to all, no invitation required, and spouses are welcome - bring your questions!

[HansDietrich]

I'll spare you the effort everyone. I've been to one not too long ago.

The good:
- Nice friendly individuals
- They give you a nice rundown of the process, the expectations, the salary and benefits as well as living in Dubai
- They will try their best to answer all your questions
- Again, nice people...
- Global Airline, New Aircraft, exciting destinations
- Opportunity to upgrade after about 7 years (that may have changed since I've been there)

The bad:
- Felt like a "Timeshare" presentation of them trying to sell you Dubai / Emirates
- You could tell that some things they were saying, they didn't even believe

The reality:
- You do make good money, but Dubai is also a place that you can easily spend it, especially if you try to "go with the flow"...
- When asked "What's the ideal candidate?", their answer was "Ryanair F/O". Basically they want a young European, with 3000 hours on the 737, that knows to keep his mouth shut.
- The amount of work that Emirates pilots have to put up with, have many pilots quit. If you are a family man (or woman), 8 days (guaranteed off) a month, AT HOME, does not cut it.
- Emirates does not want to admit that they have a serious issue with staffing and finding pilots
- If you have any issue with management, you have absolutely nobody to turn to. You either keep your moth shut or quit.

A few extra notes (my opinion):
- Who on God's earth would leave a 737 / A320 job in Canada to fly for Emirates?
- Money isn't everything, and that's why most guys that were promised XX days a year off and are not getting them, (although they are getting paid for it), are quitting. Sure you can make 200K a year (including housing allowance), but when your wife divorces you and leaves to come back to Canada because you're never home, life is not exactly great.
- Single? ATPL? Jet MTOW over 20 tones? Sure, go to the Middle East, make money, have fun and come back... Don't expect "Canadian style" treatment though... You will never get it.

My message to Emirates:
- I'm a qualified pilot. I have thousands of hours, flying turbines, jets and airline experience. From the outside, you sound good.... very good, but when you talk to people there, you realize that you are not as good as you think you are. I make significantly less money in Canada than you would offer me, but the working condition and ESPECIALLY TIME OFF, that you offer, would NEVER EVER EVER make me want to come over there.

I would do it for say: 12 guaranteed days off a month (at home) and 200K a year... That's not unreasonable. Remember, no amount of money can replace the values and "standard of decency and respect" Canadian society offers you.

Thanks for taking the time to read this...

Klaus

(PS. Excuse the spelling errors. I did not proof read this)
Edited for spelling... to some extent....

[jpilot77]

If you want to be an expat right now China is a much better deal than the Middle East. Plus you can choose a commuting block as opposed to strictly moving overseas.

[parallel60]

Klaus,

Well said, a lot of great points in your post. I know a few people there and have been myself although never worked for Emirates. Just...do your homework. Could be bad for you but also could be good. Only one way to find out.

[Eric Janson]

Just about everyone I know working at the ME3 Airlines is looking to get out.

These jobs aren't what they used to be.

Personal Opinion:- I don't like anything about Dubai. Can't get out of there fast enough. I've spent time there on and off since 2000 and it's only getting worse imho.

With the deteriorating political and economic situation in the region - the benefits no longer outweigh the risks imho.

Do your research - there's plenty of information out there.

[Panama Jack]

Wanted to share my thoughts, for what it's worth. HansDietrich and Eric Janson are pretty accurate. I am in my mid-40's, a long-term expat in the GCC, and employed by one of the ME3 but I am not at liberty to mention the name of the company.

In my opinion, of the 3 airlines that are generally referred to as the ME3, Emirates is the worst to be at for pilots. Lifestyle and company culture are the reasons-- you may end up on a 777 but they operate those on a fatiguing short-haul work schedule. Company culture as well as the training environment is not very pleasant from what I hear, and so the morale suffers. The mindset seems to be that the airline here can hire from wherever they want, everybody wants to work for them, so if you don't like what is going on- leave. In my opinion, that's unfortunate because grievances that could be resolved are allowed to fester. These days, Qatar Airways seems to be offering some of the best conditions, but, then you are living in Qatar.

The political situation is another uncertainty and we'll have to see how this pans out now with Ramadan having passed, my outlook for the long-term future is not optimistic. Lack of political leadership from the United States is one major source of problems. There are also a new generation of leaders coming on the scene, with uncertainties of political succession in countries such as Oman. The Gulf region has been one of the few areas of calm and stability in an otherwise rough neighborhood-- hopefully this will continue but emotions are on the rise and as the Qatar issue has shown, sudden changes can come very rapidly.

All of the people who I know who have a seniority number with a US airline have left, and most of the European pilots have either gone back home or are actively looking at a return. From over here, going to Easy Jet looks pretty attractive.

As for me, the problem is once you are in this region it is hard to return to Canada. If I were to return to a Canadian airline I am effectively starting my career over again; I often ponder what my career would have worked out numerous years ago had I taken the fork in the road that went to WestJet instead of the Middle East. The other issue is the Red security pass-- there is always the question on whether I would be able to get it because of the security check requirements and the difficulty accessing records. Sure, I have the citizenship and licenses, but being denied a red pass could bar me from working in Canada again. Realistically, best I could hope for is a direct-entry position to a corporate jet.

With our fatiguing work schedule, the way it is, I don't think I would be able to make it here to age 60 or 65. I hope to hang on a few more years, ideally 10, at least 5, and then settle for an early semi-retirement. I certainly don't want to die an early death due to the cumulative effects of fatigue, and I want to make it out of here alive. If I were to die here, Sharia law dictates that my wife would only receive about 1/8th of the house and our belongings, even though we don't have children- which is grossly unfair by my standards. Sharia law is the law of the land here, and the fact that I am an expat and not a muslim doesn't change that. However, after about a decade and a half in the sandbox, I have been able to weather a lot of the challenges that we deal with here and I have been able to make it "work" for me.

So as HansDietrich says, I don't understand why anybody on a 737 or A320 in Canada would leave to come to Emirates unless they are trying to run from a lover or the law.

[Jack Klumpus]

Panama Jack couldn't have said it any better.

Namaste Panama

[GRK2]

What Panama and Hans say is mostly true, with a couple of additions or maybe a different perspective. Yes...Emirates is slowly grinding their pilots to a tired and dusty flour. The 777 is now the killer, they are also looking at some sort of merger of convenience with Fly Dubai which will not be pretty for anyone in a flying seat, in my opinion. With virtually no rules to guide or govern, there will be a blood bath.
I don't work for Emirates but know many who do, and the older pilots are leaving, even with out a job to go to. It's done them in. Tired, and in more than a few cases, starting to show symptoms of long term health issues related to the fatigue they accumulate. Stay away unless you really need that job.

The unmentionable one down the road, has it's own problems, the 320/330 group is mostly unhappy with their rosters as they end up with the same type of flying as mentioned above. The 340's are gone or going, the 777/787 rosters are starting to show a few signs of longer hours and the 90 hour month is showing up more and more. If you do decide to join, it will be on the 777/787 and eventually you will fly both types. Predominantly medium to long haul with some Ultra Long if you want. The CEO is leaving now with his minions or is gone already, the latest round of dismissals of ground staff, middle managers poor performers has taken a toll, and there might be more, but Flight Operations is pretty much intact with a need for DEC's and the hiring is ongoing. Salary and conditions need an increase, there is no fund but the End Of Service which is a rule of law here.
Qatar is Qatar, the pay is higher, but it's Doha...a pretty grim place to live and the boss is unpredictable.
Speaking of Sharia, the information regarding wills has recently been changed for the better. Wills may now be registered to allow for a Western solution. No more Sharia awards. Your spouse will receive the benefits as stated and legally entitled to in your will.
Living in Dubai isn't easy as the traffic is manic and non stop, it's frikkin HOT in the summer and you'll be busy.
Abu Dhabi is much quieter, and the pace is slower.
All in all The information from the other two is accurate, it's not for everyone, you have to do your research, but I hear China is a real treat too!
Best of luck.

[Panama Jack]

Namaste, Jack. _/\_

GRK2- I agree with your comments however, regarding the Sharia Law issue (and this is recent info), the Emiri Decree has not year been implemented yet and there is some question as when and even if it will, and what the end-product will look like. At the end of the day we are just the infidel foreign guests laborers, although we get to wear white shirts and gold bats and enjoy more privileges and considerations than the fellows on the white buses wearing blue coveralls.my experience is that whatever initiative they announce in the region can take 4X longer than expected and be subject to changes.

Agree with your assessment on the QR CEO- watched a video of him recently and I came away with the impression that this is one individual who I would not want to meet in person.

[Kejidog]

My Question is what self respecting person would do anything to support a mysognistic culture system and culture?

I would rather shovel horse shit than contribute to an economy that operates that way. I am Not a professional pilot; just someone who belives that making 50% of your population a possession deserves to wither and die. And the sooner western people stop supporting this way of life the better the world will be.

[Panama Jack]

My Question is what self respecting person would do anything to support a mysognistic culture system and culture?

I would rather shovel horse shit than contribute to an economy that operates that way. I am Not a professional pilot; just someone who belives that making 50% of your population a possession deserves to wither and die. And the sooner western people stop supporting this way of life the better the world will be.

Bless you for having such strong and clear morale compass. Unfortunately, I get confused by this. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engles argued that in capitalism, the industrial working class, or proletariat, engage in class struggle against the owners of the means of production, the bourgeoisie, yet the Communist system practiced in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, Vietnam and Maoist China did not liberate their societies either. Even Canadian CAR 703 companies utterly exploit the energetic, idealistic fresh-souls coming out of flight schools with dreams of Ray Bans, white shirts and gold braid. Unfortunately, hippie communes don't operate airlines, so my options to practice my profession are limited to whatever I judge to be the best option for me personally.

My hat goes off to you though.

[CanadianEh]

My Question is what self respecting person would do anything to support a mysognistic culture system and culture?

I would rather shovel horse shit than contribute to an economy that operates that way. I am Not a professional pilot; just someone who belives that making 50% of your population a possession deserves to wither and die. And the sooner western people stop supporting this way of life the better the world will be.

Bless you for having such strong and clear morale compass. Unfortunately, I get confused by this. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engles argued that in capitalism, the industrial working class, or proletariat, engage in class struggle against the owners of the means of production, the bourgeoisie, yet the Communist system practiced in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, Vietnam and Maoist China did not liberate their societies either. Even Canadian CAR 703 companies utterly exploit the energetic, idealistic fresh-souls coming out of flight schools with dreams of Ray Bans, white shirts and gold braid. Unfortunately, hippie communes don't operate airlines, so my options to practice my profession are limited to whatever I judge to be the best option for me personally.

My hat goes off to you though.

[Kejidog]

Bless you for having such strong and clear morale compass. Unfortunately, I get confused by this. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engles argued that in capitalism, the industrial working class, or proletariat, engage in class struggle against the owners of the means of production, the bourgeoisie, yet the Communist system practiced in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, Vietnam and Maoist China did not liberate their societies either. Even Canadian CAR 703 companies utterly exploit the energetic, idealistic fresh-souls coming out of flight schools with dreams of Ray Bans, white shirts and gold braid. Unfortunately, hippie communes don't operate airlines, so my options to practice my profession are limited to whatever I judge to be the best option for me personally.

My hat goes off to you though.

Thanks for the social studies lesson professor. But I will be keeping my hat on. I guess your wife is happy being 1/8 of a human.

As I see by your statement that you'd have had no problem working to support apartheid because it made you money. Ok I get that. But lets do a mental exercise. Say all the things the sharia crowd say; but replace woman with black, muslim, jew, gay, or any other special intrest group and see if it makes the people around you or yourself uncomfortable.

The culture is reprehensible and i in no way support it or their beliefs.

[Mr. North]

Oh dear, another snowflake has been triggered.

[Kejidog]

Oh dear, another snowflake has been triggered.

Lol. You got that right sweetheart.