Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

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rookiepilot
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by rookiepilot »

Question for the Air Canada cheerleaders, that contrary to evidence, seem to think AC is both the safest and most polite airline in the world.

I just completed a long, multi segment trip as a pax. One business, rest economy, last premium economy with AC. On this last flight they made me take off my cordless Bose, while still parked at the gate. First time on any airline I've ever been asked to do this, including AC.

I politely questioned this, and got a snotty answer (it's safety!). What else would one expect -- it's AC.

Fine, I'm always compliant. But during the taxi, ect, when I always focus on where the emergency exits are and how to get out, perhaps helping others -- not relying on same likely panicked FA's, all of us are subjected to AC's non stop advertising on the screen. Loud. Yeah, that's safety first. Not.

Guy across from me, and others, shoes off. Completely dumb. No policy on that, which is far worse than my Bose which I can hear everything.

Yep, as long as I can hear the advertising non stop blasted at me --my question is, how does full volume advertising, just before takeoff, (which No Other airline that I've flown recently does) -- help safety?

AC is making lots of money cost cutting. Don't tell me that isn't at the expense of safety, too ---
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by True North »

rookiepilot wrote:Question for the Air Canada cheerleaders, that contrary to evidence, seem to think AC is both the safest and most polite airline in the world.

I just completed a long, multi segment trip as a pax. One business, rest economy, last premium economy with AC. On this last flight they made me take off my cordless Bose, while still parked at the gate. First time on any airline I've ever been asked to do this, including AC.

I politely questioned this, and got a snotty answer (it's safety!). What else would one expect -- it's AC.

Fine, I'm always compliant. But during the taxi, ect, when I always focus on where the emergency exits are and how to get out, perhaps helping others -- not relying on same likely panicked FA's, all of us are subjected to AC's non stop advertising on the screen. Loud. Yeah, that's safety first. Not.

Guy across from me, and others, shoes off. Completely dumb. No policy on that, which is far worse than my Bose which I can hear everything.

Yep, as long as I can hear the advertising non stop blasted at me --my question is, how does full volume advertising, just before takeoff, (which No Other airline that I've flown recently does) -- help safety?

AC is making lots of money cost cutting. Don't tell me that isn't at the expense of safety, too ---
I guess it's just good that you are there to take care of everything because of the "likely panicked FAs". :roll:
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by 727driver »

I totally agree with you rookie however this is a directive from TC cabin safety division. All the FA was doing was enforcing a stupid rule. If you paid attention to the cabin safety briefing you would have heard the standard "only earbud devices connected to the aircraft entertainment system is allowed for take off and landing." Pretty standard TC safety stuff.
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by rookiepilot »

True North wrote:
rookiepilot wrote:Question for the Air Canada cheerleaders, that contrary to evidence, seem to think AC is both the safest and most polite airline in the world.

I just completed a long, multi segment trip as a pax. One business, rest economy, last premium economy with AC. On this last flight they made me take off my cordless Bose, while still parked at the gate. First time on any airline I've ever been asked to do this, including AC.

I politely questioned this, and got a snotty answer (it's safety!). What else would one expect -- it's AC.

Fine, I'm always compliant. But during the taxi, ect, when I always focus on where the emergency exits are and how to get out, perhaps helping others -- not relying on same likely panicked FA's, all of us are subjected to AC's non stop advertising on the screen. Loud. Yeah, that's safety first. Not.

Guy across from me, and others, shoes off. Completely dumb. No policy on that, which is far worse than my Bose which I can hear everything.

Yep, as long as I can hear the advertising non stop blasted at me --my question is, how does full volume advertising, just before takeoff, (which No Other airline that I've flown recently does) -- help safety?

AC is making lots of money cost cutting. Don't tell me that isn't at the expense of safety, too ---
I guess it's just good that you are there to take care of everything because of the "likely panicked FAs". :roll:
You're claiming they never do? Plenty of evidence to the contrary. Of course some AC FA's would have trouble getting out the emergency door.

Guys if you're going to cheerlead the hard landing company, at least use some logic....
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by MCB »

rookiepilot wrote:
True North wrote:
rookiepilot wrote:Question for the Air Canada cheerleaders, that contrary to evidence, seem to think AC is both the safest and most polite airline in the world.

I just completed a long, multi segment trip as a pax. One business, rest economy, last premium economy with AC. On this last flight they made me take off my cordless Bose, while still parked at the gate. First time on any airline I've ever been asked to do this, including AC.

I politely questioned this, and got a snotty answer (it's safety!). What else would one expect -- it's AC.

Fine, I'm always compliant. But during the taxi, ect, when I always focus on where the emergency exits are and how to get out, perhaps helping others -- not relying on same likely panicked FA's, all of us are subjected to AC's non stop advertising on the screen. Loud. Yeah, that's safety first. Not.

Guy across from me, and others, shoes off. Completely dumb. No policy on that, which is far worse than my Bose which I can hear everything.

Yep, as long as I can hear the advertising non stop blasted at me --my question is, how does full volume advertising, just before takeoff, (which No Other airline that I've flown recently does) -- help safety?

AC is making lots of money cost cutting. Don't tell me that isn't at the expense of safety, too ---
I guess it's just good that you are there to take care of everything because of the "likely panicked FAs". :roll:
You're claiming they never do? Plenty of evidence to the contrary. Of course some AC FA's would have trouble getting out the emergency door.

Guys if you're going to cheerlead the hard landing company, at least use some logic....
What's wrong with you?
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by rookiepilot »

727driver wrote:I totally agree with you rookie however this is a directive from TC cabin safety division. All the FA was doing was enforcing a stupid rule. If you paid attention to the cabin safety briefing you would have heard the standard "only earbud devices connected to the aircraft entertainment system is allowed for take off and landing." Pretty standard TC safety stuff.
Actually that's the thing. That phrase isn't consistently used, rules and regs are completely inconsistent. Mine was cordless and not even tuned to anything. Whatever.

I find it interesting how loud advertising and no shoes are supposed to enhance safety, but anyway....
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by True North »

rookiepilot wrote:You're claiming they never do? Plenty of evidence to the contrary. Of course some AC FA's would have trouble getting out the emergency door.

Guys if you're going to cheerlead the hard landing company, at least use some logic....
Please do enlighten us.
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by Kejidog »

Maybe the solution would be surveillance cameras running on all flights. It would make pax and Crew behave. It would clear the he said she said. And we all could edit the parts we want to support our point.

Wouldn't that be great?
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by TeePeeCreeper »

rookiepilot wrote: You're claiming they never do? Plenty of evidence to the contrary. Of course some AC FA's would have trouble getting out the emergency door.
Good rant. I was all for it until you admonished someone in regards to their weight. Having read your previous posts over the years, I think what I quoted you to say is beneath you.
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by complexintentions »

I didn't hear him admonish anyone at all, only make a perfectly accurate observation.

Oh right I forgot for a second, daring to mention weight is either "fat-shaming" or "hate speech". I forget which? And of course it isn't like there aren't a few pilots who ain't going out the cockpit window in an evacuation. There, now everyone gets to be a victim.

I'm all for safety but hiding behind it as a catch-all excuse is just lazy and gets done a lot.

I suppose now lazy people will be after me for lazy-shaming them. Fortunately, they probably won't bother to make the effort to protest.
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by Black_Tusk »

rookiepilot wrote:I just completed a long, multi segment trip as a pax. One business, rest economy, last premium economy with AC. On this last flight they made me take off my cordless Bose, while still parked at the gate. First time on any airline I've ever been asked to do this, including AC.
You must not fly AC very much. Headsets are only allowed to be worn in flight, it's been that way for a long time. And bluetooth headphones are not permitted. Only in ear type earbuds connected to the IFE can be worn while taxing and takeoff/landing. It's a safety issue, and you can disagree all you want but those are the rules. Just because the FA's didn't say anything on the first two flights doesn't mean it's OK to keep them on. You're a pilot, yes? Act like one. If you know the rules, follow them. Especially if you are in uniform.
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Last edited by Black_Tusk on Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by Meatservo »

At my airline, we only hire flight attendants who have specifically graduated from the special course of study on how to identify and be intimately familiar with every single make and model of headset, tablet, e-reader, earbud; whatever it is. That way, when some anonymous guy -who is smarter, more aviation-savvy and fit than the flight attendants- happens to be sitting in 13D and gets uppity because his special headset, on account of it happens to be a "Bose 9000" or what-the-@#$!-ever, lets him hear every nuance in the ambient soundscape of the cabin, we don't need to annoy him by asking him to take it off, despite our numerous requests that everyone on the plane should do so.

I think people like "rookie" should get a badge that identifies them as super beings that will, with the aid of their technologically advanced ear-wear, be of more use than the crew in an emergency. That way, they could be strategically placed in the most comfortable seats in the cabin so they can be of the most aid, to the fattest flight attendants, should the need arise.
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by rookiepilot »

Black_Tusk wrote:
rookiepilot wrote:I just completed a long, multi segment trip as a pax. One business, rest economy, last premium economy with AC. On this last flight they made me take off my cordless Bose, while still parked at the gate. First time on any airline I've ever been asked to do this, including AC.
You must not fly AC very much. Headsets are only allowed to be worn in flight, it's been that way for a long time. And bluetooth headphones are not permitted. Only in ear type earbuds connected to the IFE can be worn while taxing and takeoff/landing. It's a safety issue, and you can disagree all you want but those are the rules. Just because the FA's didn't say anything on the first two flights doesn't mean it's OK to keep them on. You're a pilot, yes? Act like one. If you know the rules, follow them. Especially if you are in uniform.
I do follow the rules, and did this time. Didn't realize asking, once, was considered non compliance in the AC world. Questions aren't allowed?

In 2017 I've flown -- I'd estimate -- 25 plus segments as a pax, around the world, with those same earphones, including several AC flights. First time I've ever been asked. No big deal. These are all bus rides. Expectations are pretty low.

My simple question was how does loud advertising, you can't turn off, before takeoff enhance safety?

My other recurrent point is when AC employees here remotely allude to AC as either the safest or most courteous airline in the world, well one has to laugh.

They are the only airline with consistently the rudest quotient of staff I've seen. And I just don't think unprovoked rudeness and attitude is either necessary to get the job done, nor acceptable. Guess I'm a bit quaint these days. Not to be coddled. Just nice to have a simple absence of "attitude". And to be fair, you see it everywhere, specifically in Canada. Even in restaurants. Why is it cool to be so rude?

What's interesting, is I deal with people at a variety of levels. Almost never, do I interact with another business owner or someone in senior management who is overtly rude. They are always in junior, service positions. And almost always in Canada, too. It's become normal.

On the weight? Yes, perhaps that's harsh. But really, getting banged in the shoulder a dozen times on a flight gets old. Otherwise I couldn't care less.

And a ton of people agree. Read some AC reviews one day.

Fly Cathay one day, gentle readers. Or any international carrier.
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by skypirate88 »

The advertisement is not to improve safety. You're trying to create a problem where there isn't one.

The reason only headsets connected to the IFE are allowed is not to force you to listen to the advertisement either. It is so if an emergency command needs to be given, you will hear it. The volume on the IFE will be muted allowing you to hear the announcement. The advertisement playing will be muted/paused so you can hear it as well. If you are wearing your fancy Bose, there is potential you wouldn't hear it.

Does that clear it up a bit?
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by photofly »

On this last flight they made me take off my cordless Bose, while still parked at the gate. First time on any airline I've ever been asked to do this, including AC.
You've been very lucky. I often seen people asked to remove headsets.
But really, getting banged in the shoulder a dozen times on a flight gets old.
You do realize, that's 100% intentional on the part of the cabin crew? You must really annoy them!
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by rookiepilot »

photofly wrote:
On this last flight they made me take off my cordless Bose, while still parked at the gate. First time on any airline I've ever been asked to do this, including AC.
You've been very lucky. I often seen people asked to remove headsets.
But really, getting banged in the shoulder a dozen times on a flight gets old.
You do realize, that's 100% intentional on the part of the cabin crew? You must really annoy them!
Maybe you could apply as an AC FA, PF. See the world!
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by photofly »

I must admit, telling people daily to remove their headsets and banging into them with the trolley (I'm too slim to make it look authentic with my ass) does sound like a lot of fun!
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by rookiepilot »

photofly wrote:I must admit, telling people daily to remove their headsets and banging into them with the trolley (I'm too slim to make it look authentic with my ass) does sound like a lot of fun!

There may be a minimum BMI to apply.

Maybe instead of screeching "safety"! AC shouldn't line up to land on taxiways. Don't think my headphones would have mattered much, reading that thread.
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by photofly »

rookiepilot wrote: Maybe instead of screeching "safety"! AC shouldn't line up to land on taxiways.
Does it have to be one or the other?
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by True North »

rookie, we're still waiting for the "plenty of evidence" of AC flight attendants panicking during an emergency.
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by True North »

True North wrote:rookie, we're still waiting for the "plenty of evidence" of AC flight attendants panicking during an emergency.
Yeah...didn't thinks so.

No credibility at all.
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by rookiepilot »

True North wrote:
True North wrote:rookie, we're still waiting for the "plenty of evidence" of AC flight attendants panicking during an emergency.
Yeah...didn't thinks so.

No credibility at all.
It's called google, True North, and you'll find what you need.

I long ago lost the need to "prove" anything to anyone, nor respond to commands from internet strangers.
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by photofly »

https://www.google.ca/search?q=air+cana ... +emergency

I don't see anything relevant ... help me out?
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by True North »

rookiepilot wrote:
True North wrote:
True North wrote:rookie, we're still waiting for the "plenty of evidence" of AC flight attendants panicking during an emergency.
Yeah...didn't thinks so.

No credibility at all.
It's called google, True North, and you'll find what you need.

I long ago lost the need to "prove" anything to anyone, nor respond to commands from internet strangers.
Utterly unoriginal but good to know.

Classic troll.
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Re: Westjet cabin incident, good thing it wasn't United or AC

Post by rookiepilot »

photofly wrote:https://www.google.ca/search?q=air+cana ... +emergency

I don't see anything relevant ... help me out?
I don't post on command, but this one was entertaining.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/10/nyreg ... ndant.html

Look guys. You want to keep arguing / cheerleading AC is the safest, more courteous airline around, they don't have accidents even but hard landings, I can't help with your misconceptions.

It's not trolling to repeat exactly what AC said. I'm not a fan of "spin" and "PR". Black is black. White is white.

You have an accident. Call it as such, and pay up.

The trolling is happening by those who say the latest "incident" is also nothing, and that AC knows more than the FAA whose investigating.
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