Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

Discuss topics relating to Jazz Aviation LP.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, Sulako, North Shore

Message
Author
daniele.fix
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:15 pm

Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#1 Post by daniele.fix » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:43 pm

As you all know avcanada is full of bashing jazz for pay. Say you're a first year F/O:
Some people say its horrible, some are saying its better than encore, yet I'm still seeing people posting about making like 50K without overtime. It seems all over the place to me.

What are you guys actually going home with for money? Trying to compare this to an encore post I made. Feel free to PM!
---------- ADS -----------

iflyroads
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:50 am

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#2 Post by iflyroads » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:48 am

daniele.fix wrote: .... I'm still seeing people posting about making like 50K without overtime.

There is no way that's possible. With overtime for sure I can see them make the 50k, but without OT I doubt they come near it. If I'm wrong, i will gladly print this thread off and eat it.
---------- ADS -----------

flyer 1492
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:55 pm

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#3 Post by flyer 1492 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:47 am

Are they including their per diems? Per diems will be around the 1000-1200 per month.

Flyer
---------- ADS -----------

FL-280
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:45 pm

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#4 Post by FL-280 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:14 am

First year for me... 47K Gross working 1-2 well negotiated WDO's per month.
Per diems looking like 1300-1500 per month, I spend half of that. That is an extra 8k ish of in my pocket money.

Salary for the first year isn't as bad as they say, but it's pretty crappy when you work 16-18 days per month.
** And yes, I'm in my twenties living in my parent's basement.
---------- ADS -----------

Pt6-42
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 am

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#5 Post by Pt6-42 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:21 pm

FL-280 wrote:First year for me... 47K Gross working 1-2 well negotiated WDO's per month.
Per diems looking like 1300-1500 per month, I spend half of that. That is an extra 8k ish of in my pocket money.

Salary for the first year isn't as bad as they say, but it's pretty crappy when you work 16-18 days per month.
** And yes, I'm in my twenties living in my parent's basement.
So your saying with out over time its $1100 plus $700 perdiums every 2 weeks?
---------- ADS -----------

FL-280
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:45 pm

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#6 Post by FL-280 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:19 pm

That's not how we get paid. You get a pay advance on the 25th then a pay on the 10th to complete your last month. Depends what you do with your time bank etc....

Plus my statement included 1 - 2 overtimes per month. I have no idea how you read no overtime.
---------- ADS -----------

Canuck1988
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:49 pm

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#7 Post by Canuck1988 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:23 pm

Phew... we dodged another "you shouldn't count per diems as part of your income vs yeah you should!" Argument. :rolleyes:
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
KenoraPilot
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 500
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:34 pm
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#8 Post by KenoraPilot » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:31 pm

Mid 40's for first year with Per Diems and Salary. If you pay into the ESP its a little lower but make more money when they pay out the 60% annually. Again a little less if you have a spouse on your health benefits (costs a decent chunk to have them on your plan as well). But over all its mid 40's first year and goes up slightly slightly for the next 4 years. Best to just upgrade ASAP.
---------- ADS -----------

skypirate88
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:46 am

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#9 Post by skypirate88 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:39 pm

You are looking at approximately 1000 a month depending on provincial taxes. As a block holder, your perdiem should be over 1000 a month. It will be less if you are taking advantage of the ESOP.

There is plenty of overtime available for those who want it. Even if you just fly your block, it is likely you end up doing OT.

The pay is no where near what it should be, but looking long term, Jazz is certainly not a bad place to be. Most bases are seeing captain upgrades around 1.5 years seniority.
---------- ADS -----------
A mile of road will take you a mile, but a mile of runway can take you anywhere

User avatar
Rowdy
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4800
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:26 pm
Location: On Borrowed Wings

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#10 Post by Rowdy » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:12 pm

Without being an overtime whore.. my T4 as a first year FO was 43k. There was an additional 16.5k in tax free per diems.

Easily on track to be touching 90k year one as a Capt. making just a touch less in per diems as I bid reserve to get days off that I want.

While this is not perfect or even great, it's not as terrible as some people have tried to showcase it as.
---------- ADS -----------

Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#11 Post by Black_Tusk » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:24 pm

Year 1 pay.

January to the end of June I have grossed $24,500. This based on a mid 80's blocking window and approx 2-3 WDOs a month (usually a quick turn @ total credit of 6.75).

That is not including per diems, which for the same date range is $7800.

So you can do the math..

I have on average 15-16 days off a month depending on how much OT I want to work.
---------- ADS -----------
Last edited by Black_Tusk on Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pt6-42
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 am

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#12 Post by Pt6-42 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:42 pm

Black_Tusk wrote:Year 1 pay.

January to the end of July I have grossed $24,500. This based on a mid 80's blocking window and approx 2-3 WDOs a month (usually a quick turn @ total credit of 6.75).

That is not including per diems, which for the same date range is $7800.

So you can do the math..

I have on average 15-16 days off a month depending on how much OT I want to work.
So your getting $2700 after tax per month? Confirm?
---------- ADS -----------

Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#13 Post by Black_Tusk » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:15 pm

Pt6-42 wrote:
Black_Tusk wrote:Year 1 pay.

January to the end of July I have grossed $24,500. This based on a mid 80's blocking window and approx 2-3 WDOs a month (usually a quick turn @ total credit of 6.75).

That is not including per diems, which for the same date range is $7800.

So you can do the math..

I have on average 15-16 days off a month depending on how much OT I want to work.
So your getting $2700 after tax per month? Confirm?
Give or take $100-$200. Some months I work more some I work less but I take home around that, yes. Plus per diems. And I know it's not considered income, but I do not spend even close to my per diems per month especially having the lounge card. So a lot of that money makes it's way into my fridge at home... So take that consideration too you want. I do ok, and no I don't live in my parents basement and have a fairly expensive rent payment. I don't feel that I'm paycheck to paycheck.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
Cat Driver
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 18817
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#14 Post by Cat Driver » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:22 pm

Any of your per diem money you do not spend during the month is money you earned as long as you do not give it back to the company......
---------- ADS -----------
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.

Flaps2
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 12:30 pm

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#15 Post by Flaps2 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:41 pm

Black_Tusk wrote:
Pt6-42 wrote:
Black_Tusk wrote:Year 1 pay.

January to the end of July I have grossed $24,500. This based on a mid 80's blocking window and approx 2-3 WDOs a month (usually a quick turn @ total credit of 6.75).

That is not including per diems, which for the same date range is $7800.

So you can do the math..

I have on average 15-16 days off a month depending on how much OT I want to work.
So your getting $2700 after tax per month? Confirm?
Give or take $100-$200. Some months I work more some I work less but I take home around that, yes. Plus per diems. And I know it's not considered income, but I do not spend even close to my per diems per month especially having the lounge card. So a lot of that money makes it's way into my fridge at home... So take that consideration too you want. I do ok, and no I don't live in my parents basement and have a fairly expensive rent payment. I don't feel that I'm paycheck to paycheck.
You must be getting some overtime. Right? I have few sources saying it's closer to 2100 month plus $800 perdium.
---------- ADS -----------

Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#16 Post by Black_Tusk » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:48 pm

Flaps2 wrote:
Black_Tusk wrote:
Pt6-42 wrote:
So your getting $2700 after tax per month? Confirm?
Give or take $100-$200. Some months I work more some I work less but I take home around that, yes. Plus per diems. And I know it's not considered income, but I do not spend even close to my per diems per month especially having the lounge card. So a lot of that money makes it's way into my fridge at home... So take that consideration too you want. I do ok, and no I don't live in my parents basement and have a fairly expensive rent payment. I don't feel that I'm paycheck to paycheck.
You must be getting some overtime. Right? I have few sources saying it's closer to 2100 month plus $800 perdium.
I'm not going to post screenshots of my payslips so you can believe me or not. WDO = overtime... and like I said in the previous posts I do 2-3 a month, however this month I did none.

I worked 15 days in July and had 16 days off. Next month I have 17 scheduled days off, all my weekends off and blocked at 84 hours.

A month were I do overtime I usually end up between 100-110 credit hours, and 14ish days off.

You can make as little or as much as you want, I think the highest month I had was 122 credits. This was when I was based in YUL and had nothing else to do so I did a lot of O/T.

edit; I also made a mistake in the numbers before. The $24,500 is actually only from January to the end of June.
---------- ADS -----------
Last edited by Black_Tusk on Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:04 am, edited 7 times in total.

Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#17 Post by Black_Tusk » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:50 pm

Keep in mind your mileage may vary slightly based on what type you fly and what base you're at. I fly the RJ out west which has the highest credit pairings in the system and some of the best overnights for per diems. A -8 guy in say, YUL or YYZ may make less.
Cat Driver wrote:Any of your per diem money you do not spend during the month is money you earned as long as you do not give it back to the company......
Agreed.
---------- ADS -----------

AA123455
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:45 pm

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#18 Post by AA123455 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:22 am

I usually work 100 credits/month +- about 10 hours. I havn't worked less than 90 credits in almost a year. I usually work 20 or 22 days a month. 18 scheduled days with 2 or 4 WDO days.
---------- ADS -----------

AA123455
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:45 pm

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#19 Post by AA123455 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:25 am

I usually work 100 credits/month +- about 10 hours. I havn't worked less than 90 credits in almost a year. I usually work 20 or 22 days a month. 18 scheduled days with 2 or 4 WDO days.
---------- ADS -----------

Harley2014
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:23 pm

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#20 Post by Harley2014 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:35 pm

$1010 every two weeks take home on a block with no overtime paying higher taxes in Quebec. 1000-1200 a month in per diems. If you are commuting you will spend the majority of if unless you live in a cheap crash pad
---------- ADS -----------

All DAY EVERY DAY
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:21 am

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#21 Post by All DAY EVERY DAY » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:05 am

A few WDOs a month and you can do 50K. Do 3-4 dayers and make loads of per diems.
---------- ADS -----------

Pt6-42
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 am

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#22 Post by Pt6-42 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:56 am

All DAY EVERY DAY wrote:A few WDOs a month and you can do 50K. Do 3-4 dayers and make loads of per diems.
What is this overtime thing you speak of? I still am in 703 world and I work 24 days in 31...
---------- ADS -----------

Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#23 Post by Black_Tusk » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:07 am

Pt6-42 wrote:
All DAY EVERY DAY wrote:A few WDOs a month and you can do 50K. Do 3-4 dayers and make loads of per diems.
What is this overtime thing you speak of? I still am in 703 world and I work 24 days in 31...
If you the same amount of days at Jazz as you do in 703 right now you'd make a killing. Or you can just work the 15-18 days and have a life. I prefer the latter. Money is not the end all.
---------- ADS -----------

glass1/2full
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:57 pm

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#24 Post by glass1/2full » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:09 pm

no BS this is what the pay is and you figure out if it works for you or not..
everyone's needs are different but these numbers are as accurate as of this month

18 months fo

payed on the 25th and 10th of every month. no over time straight pay
25th $ 1047
10th $ 1155.

based on the blocking average

now if you want to add per diems or calculate it
block holders average 3 or 4 day pairings with 12 to 14 days off a month around 1200 a month
reserve where you are flying less than a block holder around 700 a month.

If you want over time, its there, if you happen to have min days off a month (ie 12 days) and you are ok working into your min days off its available, some do and others do not do any overtime.
you can easily do 2 4 or even 6 days overtime if you want if you don't exceed fatigue units and or days off for cars. crew sched wont give you overtime if you will end up breaking any of the above.

upgrades in yyz are around the 16 months mark but as some have mentioned some of the senior FO's will slide across at some point, when that happens the upgrades are going to be a little longer than 16 months. it also depends on how many are going to AC and when.

Jazz will work for some, and will not work for others, get accurate numbers and compare the whole package, then make your decisions based on that.


be safe and stay classy.
---------- ADS -----------

Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: Is pay not as bad as people make it seem?

#25 Post by Black_Tusk » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:51 pm

glass1/2full wrote:no BS this is what the pay is and you figure out if it works for you or not..
everyone's needs are different but these numbers are as accurate as of this month

18 months fo

payed on the 25th and 10th of every month. no over time straight pay
25th $ 1047
10th $ 1155.

based on the blocking average

now if you want to add per diems or calculate it
block holders average 3 or 4 day pairings with 12 to 14 days off a month around 1200 a month
reserve where you are flying less than a block holder around 700 a month.

If you want over time, its there, if you happen to have min days off a month (ie 12 days) and you are ok working into your min days off its available, some do and others do not do any overtime.
you can easily do 2 4 or even 6 days overtime if you want if you don't exceed fatigue units and or days off for cars. crew sched wont give you overtime if you will end up breaking any of the above.

upgrades in yyz are around the 16 months mark but as some have mentioned some of the senior FO's will slide across at some point, when that happens the upgrades are going to be a little longer than 16 months. it also depends on how many are going to AC and when.

Jazz will work for some, and will not work for others, get accurate numbers and compare the whole package, then make your decisions based on that.


be safe and stay classy.
So it's a fair comparison make sure to mention what base and type you fly. As it makes a significant difference on how many days off you might get which in turn does effect your ability to work WDO's and the per diems.
---------- ADS -----------

Post Reply

Return to “Jazz Aviation LP - Air Canada Express”