AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Topics related to accidents, incidents & over due aircraft should be placed in this forum.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore

Post Reply
User avatar
confusedalot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 959
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: location, location, is what matters

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by confusedalot »

This is not scary if it is a rehearsed airshow. This is not an airshow. Was it a rehearsed airshow. No. This is an error.

Could it be a non event, yes, it is a non event. Could it be a potential disaster, yes, a few more seconds and..............
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.

veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.

:?
Rockie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 8433
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:10 am

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by Rockie »

confusedalot wrote:This is not scary if it is a rehearsed airshow. This is not an airshow. Was it a rehearsed airshow. No. This is an error.

Could it be a non event, yes, it is a non event. Could it be a potential disaster, yes, a few more seconds and..............
Was it an error? Obviously.
Could it have been a disaster? Yes.
Was it a disaster? No.
Is it worth investigating? Obviously.
Are they investigating? Yes.

Is finding out why this error occurred more important than villifying the crew before knowing all the facts? Depends who you ask apparently....
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Old fella
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2394
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:04 am
Location: I'm retired. I don't want to'I don't have to and you can't make me.

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by Old fella »

Rockie wrote:
confusedalot wrote:This is not scary if it is a rehearsed airshow. This is not an airshow. Was it a rehearsed airshow. No. This is an error.

Could it be a non event, yes, it is a non event. Could it be a potential disaster, yes, a few more seconds and..............
Was it an error? Obviously.
Could it have been a disaster? Yes.
Was it a disaster? No.
Is it worth investigating? Obviously.
Are they investigating? Yes.

Is finding out why this error occurred more important than villifying the crew before knowing all the facts? Depends who you ask apparently....
Rockie, please accept this as constructive criticism with no intent to slight you and any way, shape form. I believe you succumb to what I call " the anonymous Twitter Troll syndrome " in that you respond to every time to the same " could have been, may have and probably did" commentary from those who basically, is all they can add. I am not a pilot for Air Canada, I know nothing about the A320 and I have never flown into SFO in my life as a pilot but I understand the facts: an AirCanada A320 on a SFO night approach lined up on a taxiway that had aircraft on it, thinking they were on final for the active runway. The error was recognized with input from flight crew, the other aircraft and ATC, a go around resulted and the aircraft landed uneventful on second approach. There was no damage to any aircraft and no injuries to any passengers or ground people and no fatalities. It was a serious incident and is under active investigation by NTSB and final report hasn't been released.

I believe I got it right.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rockie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 8433
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:10 am

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by Rockie »

No slight percieved Old Fella. This is just a discussion, one which I've stayed away from for a few days. While I am not defending this crew as I've stated before, I do believe there needs to be an adult, reasonable voice in any conversation of this type to offset the alarmists and speculators. I have nothing personal or professional at stake here, it's just a discussion.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Old fella
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2394
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:04 am
Location: I'm retired. I don't want to'I don't have to and you can't make me.

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by Old fella »

Rockie wrote:No slight percieved Old Fella. This is just a discussion, one which I've stayed away from for a few days. While I am not defending this crew as I've stated before, I do believe there needs to be an adult, reasonable voice in any conversation of this type to offset the alarmists and speculators. I have nothing personal or professional at stake here, it's just a discussion.
Well....... as the name implies, I am an older example 67 yrs to be exact. Been around enough to understand motives and alarmists/speculators usually have an axe to grind for some reason....... failed candidates or individuals AC would never have in the front offices of any of their aircraft. No doubt that has crossed your mind but your resolve/politeness is stronger than this cranky old guy to say such.

Cheers
:drinkers:
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rockie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 8433
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:10 am

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by Rockie »

Old fella wrote:Been around enough to understand motives and alarmists/speculators usually have an axe to grind for some reason....... failed candidates or individuals AC would never have in the front offices of any of their aircraft. No doubt that has crossed your mind but your resolve/politeness is stronger than this cranky old guy to say such.

Cheers
:drinkers:
Well, actually I've never thought that of anybody I've gotten into spirited discussions with. At AC we all know many great people who couldn't get a job here for some reason that no one can fathom. As far as the majority of us are concerned not being hired here is not an indictment against someone's skills or character. If someone doesn't solve the rubic's cube of requirements I would understand a little bitterness though and wouldn't hold it against them. Very few people haven't been in that position at one time or another.

I do prefer sensible arguments though which makes me unpopular at times with my colleagues in and out of Air Canada.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Old fella
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2394
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:04 am
Location: I'm retired. I don't want to'I don't have to and you can't make me.

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by Old fella »

Guess you wouldn't be a boring person over a beer on a layover in dare I say SFO. Loved my visit there other year as a BD gift from my better half of 38 years. Flew there on Air Canada from YYZ on a 320, maybe you were driving, who knows.

I indulge in spirited discussions as well......... don't get me going on Naturopathy/Homeopathy!!!!

By your leave.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
confusedalot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 959
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: location, location, is what matters

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by confusedalot »

Waaay off topic here but here goes.

Does anyone out there subscribe to the notion that a job at big red equates to winning a lottery? After all, they can't hire everyone since the seats are limited.

Full disclosure, and as part of the majority, have been turned down, 3 times. At one point, it was just not even worth applying anymore since my livelihood was taking shape elsewhere. Even had a couple of internal references.

On one hand I understand the lottery/best fit/persona thing. On the other, just cannot figure out the mystery.

I too, have been bowled over when some had announced they were turned down. Great people that in my mind would have zero problems.

And, for the record, still saying fatigue is the best way to get these two guys out of the weeds........
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.

veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.

:?
Jimmy2
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:50 am

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by Jimmy2 »

No almost everyone I know there are quite unhappy. One of them is even considering giving up flying all together to go work his parent's farm.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
BTD
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1502
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:53 pm

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by BTD »

Jimmy2 wrote:No almost everyone I know there are quite unhappy. One of them is even considering giving up flying all together to go work his parent's farm.
I never did trust anecdotal evidence.

I am happy here. And have been for 6 yrs. It isn't perfect, but then what is.
---------- ADS -----------
 
hamstandard
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:33 am

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by hamstandard »

Old fella wrote:
Well....... as the name implies, I am an older example 67 yrs to be exact. Been around enough to understand motives and alarmists/speculators usually have an axe to grind for some reason....... failed candidates or individuals AC would never have in the front offices of any of their aircraft. No doubt that has crossed your mind but your resolve/politeness is stronger than this cranky old guy to say such.

Look at what you just posted. A person that speculates on this incident(which happens with most incidents) after saying is was a close call has a motive and is a failed candidate or someone who shouldn't be flying for Air Canada.

Sounds to me like you didn't learn much in your 67 years.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Old fella
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2394
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:04 am
Location: I'm retired. I don't want to'I don't have to and you can't make me.

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by Old fella »

hamstandard wrote:
Old fella wrote:
Well....... as the name implies, I am an older example 67 yrs to be exact. Been around enough to understand motives and alarmists/speculators usually have an axe to grind for some reason....... failed candidates or individuals AC would never have in the front offices of any of their aircraft. No doubt that has crossed your mind but your resolve/politeness is stronger than this cranky old guy to say such.

Look at what you just posted. A person that speculates on this incident(which happens with most incidents) after saying is was a close call has a motive and is a failed candidate or someone who shouldn't be flying for Air Canada.

Sounds to me like you didn't learn much in your 67 years.
I learned a lot believe me. Take rampant speculation with a grain of salt
---------- ADS -----------
 
CpnCrunch
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4011
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by CpnCrunch »

hamstandard wrote:
Look at what you just posted. A person that speculates on this incident(which happens with most incidents) after saying is was a close call has a motive and is a failed candidate or someone who shouldn't be flying for Air Canada.

Sounds to me like you didn't learn much in your 67 years.
I'm going to hazard a guess that personality figures quite highly in AC's requirements, in which case Old Fella probably had more of a chance of getting a job there than some other people in this thread.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
confusedalot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 959
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: location, location, is what matters

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by confusedalot »

CpnCrunch wrote:
hamstandard wrote:
Look at what you just posted. A person that speculates on this incident(which happens with most incidents) after saying is was a close call has a motive and is a failed candidate or someone who shouldn't be flying for Air Canada.

Sounds to me like you didn't learn much in your 67 years.
I'm going to hazard a guess that personality figures quite highly in AC's requirements, in which case Old Fella probably had more of a chance of getting a job there than some other people in this thread.
I'll second that.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.

veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.

:?
sampsonmcd
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:59 am

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by sampsonmcd »

---------- ADS -----------
 
hamstandard
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:33 am

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by hamstandard »

Old fella wrote:
hamstandard wrote:
Old fella wrote:
Well....... as the name implies, I am an older example 67 yrs to be exact. Been around enough to understand motives and alarmists/speculators usually have an axe to grind for some reason....... failed candidates or individuals AC would never have in the front offices of any of their aircraft. No doubt that has crossed your mind but your resolve/politeness is stronger than this cranky old guy to say such.

Look at what you just posted. A person that speculates on this incident(which happens with most incidents) after saying is was a close call has a motive and is a failed candidate or someone who shouldn't be flying for Air Canada.

Sounds to me like you didn't learn much in your 67 years.
I learned a lot believe me. Take rampant speculation with a grain of salt
I suppose you are right when I think about it.

Without any details known, there has been rampant speculation about fatigue as a factor among other things. I agree that speculation on anything about this incident without any other information to back it up really does make those posters unfit to work for the Air Canada.

Thanks for setting me straight.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
confusedalot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 959
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: location, location, is what matters

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by confusedalot »

The speculation, or comments, or ideas have been somewhat innocuous. Suspect that it is not permissible to make any inputs when big red is involved, under pain of being labeled unfit to do a job? It's just talk.

So, cross out fatigue, what are the options? The airplane is no good? Sarcastically, the devil made them do it?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.

veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.

:?
AuxBatOn
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3283
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:13 pm
Location: North America, sometimes

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by AuxBatOn »

confusedalot wrote:The speculation, or comments, or ideas have been somewhat innocuous. Suspect that it is not permissible to make any inputs when big red is involved, under pain of being labeled unfit to do a job? It's just talk.

So, cross out fatigue, what are the options? The airplane is no good? Sarcastically, the devil made them do it?
People make mistakes due to perception even without fatigue. Illusions, bias, etc are all human factors that may have had a role in thr incident.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Going for the deck at corner
hamstandard
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:33 am

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by hamstandard »

confusedalot wrote:The speculation, or comments, or ideas have been somewhat innocuous. Suspect that it is not permissible to make any inputs when big red is involved, under pain of being labeled unfit to do a job? It's just talk.
People just come up with stupid statements and then claim that their age or something else makes them correct. Think about it for a second. You may or may not like Rockie but analyze the statements not the person. Who here knows what they are talkinng about in the posts below and who is just making a stupid statement. The statements reflect a persons thought process.Think about it for a second. There are over 30 pages of on this incident on PPRUNE, most by persons living in other countries flying for foreign airlines. Are they really all failed AC candidates. 67 years is a long time.
Rockie wrote:
Old fella wrote:Been around enough to understand motives and alarmists/speculators usually have an axe to grind for some reason....... failed candidates or individuals AC would never have in the front offices of any of their aircraft. No doubt that has crossed your mind but your resolve/politeness is stronger than this cranky old guy to say such.

Cheers
:drinkers:
Well, actually I've never thought that of anybody I've gotten into spirited discussions with. At AC we all know many great people who couldn't get a job here for some reason that no one can fathom. As far as the majority of us are concerned not being hired here is not an indictment against someone's skills or character. If someone doesn't solve the rubic's cube of requirements I would understand a little bitterness though and wouldn't hold it against them. Very few people haven't been in that position at one time or another.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Old fella
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2394
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:04 am
Location: I'm retired. I don't want to'I don't have to and you can't make me.

Re: AC Lining Up with a Taxiway SFO...?

Post by Old fella »

hamstandard wrote:
confusedalot wrote:The speculation, or comments, or ideas have been somewhat innocuous. Suspect that it is not permissible to make any inputs when big red is involved, under pain of being labeled unfit to do a job? It's just talk.
People just come up with stupid statements and then claim that their age or something else makes them correct. Think about it for a second. You may or may not like Rockie but analyze the statements not the person. Who here knows what they are talkinng about in the posts below and who is just making a stupid statement. The statements reflect a persons thought process.Think about it for a second. There are over 30 pages of on this incident on PPRUNE, most by persons living in other countries flying for foreign airlines. Are they really all failed AC candidates. 67 years is a long time.
Rockie wrote:
Old fella wrote:Been around enough to understand motives and alarmists/speculators usually have an axe to grind for some reason....... failed candidates or individuals AC would never have in the front offices of any of their aircraft. No doubt that has crossed your mind but your resolve/politeness is stronger than this cranky old guy to say such.

Cheers
:drinkers:
Well, actually I've never thought that of anybody I've gotten into spirited discussions with. At AC we all know many great people who couldn't get a job here for some reason that no one can fathom. As far as the majority of us are concerned not being hired here is not an indictment against someone's skills or character. If someone doesn't solve the rubic's cube of requirements I would understand a little bitterness though and wouldn't hold it against them. Very few people haven't been in that position at one time or another.
PPRune site..... 30 pages on an aircraft that did a go around at SFO. Somebody mention one time that place is a Speculators wet dream site, more drivel posted there that was thought humanly possible Same individual also indicated he saw posts from pilots in who spent most of their careers in the warm climate Southern Hemisphere speculating on Canadian North of 60 incidents, might have been that First Air '37 I don't know and care even less, especially on PPrune speculation. Enough said!!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Accidents, Incidents & Overdue Aircraft”