TSC- Training Department backed up

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TheSocialChameleon
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TSC- Training Department backed up

#1 Post by TheSocialChameleon » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:18 am

I know starting a new job has a lot of unknowns. One of the biggest for me was spending time away from family during training. This is to give anyone starting at Jazz a realistic time frame of when you can expect to be done training and return to your base.

From the time you finish groundshool (CRM etc..) to your last sim PPC there is a delay of about 2 months. This applies more specifically to the CRJ training. Which brings the total training to 4 months.

I got PPC'd two months ago and the time frame is getting longer. There are 2 main reasons behind this. One is due to the severe shortage of instructors. Second due to the CAE sim constantly breaking down.
The situation compounds itself when you finally are assigned to an available instructor and the sim just breaks down several times during your sessions.

During this time of waiting it's important not to get frustrated and to stay sharp by studying. That's all I'm going to give out. Just the facts and no opinion of mine as to what the training department should/shouldn't be doing.

The facts are they have several times more new hire classes than ever planned for before. They also have great quality instructors. The fact is CAE's CRJ sim was built in 1994 and runs non stop until it gives out. If you want to be done training asap choose the classic dash. Either way you're in a great company and will get paid during training. Hope this helps set out a clear expectation. Cheers!
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Last edited by TheSocialChameleon on Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

marakii
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Re: Training Department backed up

#2 Post by marakii » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:27 am

TheSocialChameleon wrote:I know starting a new job has a lot of unknowns. One of the biggest for me was spending time away from family during training. This is to give anyone starting at Jazz a realistic time frame of when you can expect to be done training and return to your base.

From the time you finish groundshool (CRM etc..) to your last sim PPC there is a delay of about 2 months. This applies more specifically to the CRJ training. Which brings the total training to 4 months.

I got PPC'd two months ago and the time frame is getting longer. There are 2 main reasons behind this. One is due to the severe shortage of instructors. Second due to the CAE sim constantly breaking down.
The situation compounds itself when you finally are assigned to an available instructor and the sim just breaks down several times during your sessions.

During this time of waiting it's important not to get frustrated and to stay sharp by studying. That's all I'm going to give out. Just the facts and no opinion of mine as to what the training department should/shouldn't be doing.

The facts are they have several times more new hire classes than ever planned for before. They also have great quality instructors. The fact is CAE's CRJ sim was built in 1994 and runs non stop until it gives out. If you want to be done training asap choose the classic dash. Either way you're in a great company and will get paid during training. Hope this helps set out a clear expectation. Cheers!
How long is the shortage of pilots going to last ?
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Re: Training Department backed up

#3 Post by FL-280 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:44 am

3 years, 4 months, 6 day, 8 hours and 14 minutes.
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Re: Training Department backed up

#4 Post by marakii » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:00 am

FL-280 wrote:3 years, 4 months, 6 day, 8 hours and 14 minutes.
Comedian on the rise!
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Re: Training Department backed up

#5 Post by FL-280 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:33 am

marakii wrote:
FL-280 wrote:3 years, 4 months, 6 day, 8 hours and 14 minutes.
Comedian on the rise!
Impossible questions to answer get stupid responses.... who knows right?
My real guess is 5 years. But take it for what it's worth.
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Re: Training Department backed up

#6 Post by marakii » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:02 pm

FL-280 wrote:
marakii wrote:
FL-280 wrote:3 years, 4 months, 6 day, 8 hours and 14 minutes.
Comedian on the rise!
Impossible questions to answer get stupid responses.... who knows right?
My real guess is 5 years. But take it for what it's worth.

You're right who knows , nobody really till it stops.
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Re: Training Department backed up

#7 Post by North Shore » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:17 pm

marakii wrote:
FL-280 wrote:
marakii wrote:
Comedian on the rise!
Impossible questions to answer get stupid responses.... who knows right?
My real guess is 5 years. But take it for what it's worth.

You're right who knows , nobody really till it stops.
Given that the news was reporting today that house prices in TO have dropped ~20% since April, and the number of sales is down ?40% YoY since last year; anecdotally, Victoria is going the same way - I'm sure that Vanc will be similar; and that some skeptics have said that Canada's economy is somewhat hollowly bassed on house prices and sales, one might wonder if the wheels are coming off as we write.
Time, as always, will reveal.
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Re: Training Department backed up

#8 Post by Black_Tusk » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:59 am

TheSocialChameleon wrote:If you want to be done training asap choose the classic dash.

If that's your decision factor... I don't know what to say. Pretty short sighted. You may see your family more while training, but you will work more days than the CRJ by a longshot.

It's funny because when I was in training the -8 guys were the ones taking forever and the CRJ was quick. Things are always changing.

You get paid while you're waiting for sim. Also you have the opportunity to work elsewhere during that time if you choose. I know people that contracted themselves out to their old jobs while waiting for sim.

Take it for what it is. The training department is hammered right now, and on top of the new hires there are recurrents happening all the time. There is more to the picture than what you can see from your perspective. The bigger factor over the sim is the lack of instructors.
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Last edited by Black_Tusk on Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Training Department backed up

#9 Post by TheSocialChameleon » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:40 pm

@Black_Tusk...You seem like a sensitive and hot tempered pilot. I did mention you get paid while training and they have a shortage of instructors.
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Re: Training Department backed up

#10 Post by goingnowherefast » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:57 pm

:lol:
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Re: Training Department backed up

#11 Post by Blueshift » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:52 pm

Thanks for sharing, TheSocialChameleon. There are a number of reasons why one might choose a specific aircraft due to the length of training, which I wouldn't necessarily classify as being short-sighted.

With that in mind, does anyone have any updates with the DH8 and Q training?
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Re: Training Department backed up

#12 Post by Rupert_Pupkin » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:58 am

In my 2 year experience at Jazz I have to say CRJ in YYC or YVR would be the best choice for lifestyle. I have been both and this month I have 18 days off. The main reason is because the CRJ does domestic flying (YVR-DFW) and out east they do short flights(Transborder headache flights). The bad news is going over to the left seat on a dash product will make the job seem harder. Even though all we really do is sit there...
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Re: Training Department backed up

#13 Post by short bus » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:15 am

Since when is yvr-dfw considered domestic??
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Re: Training Department backed up

#14 Post by Black_Tusk » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:17 pm

I'm assuming he meant it as "not regional?"

YYC and YVR RJ routes include flights to SAN, SJC, DEN, DFW, PHX, YWG, YXY and more being added. It's not exactly regional flying anymore like it is in the 200 out east. It's Canadian domestic and transborder "domestic" flying if you want to call it that. Some of the flights are close to the max range of the CRJ900.

The benefit of this, as a pilot on that type, is you almost never have a min credit day. I've had 3 days pairings over 20 hours credit with decent layover lengths and 4 day pairings over 25 credit. When a large majority of the flights are over 2 hours in length, your credit adds up quickly and as a result you work less days. I have been averaging 15-17 days off per month, and it will only get better as I gain seniority to hold the high credit multi day pairings regularly.

If you're on the RJ out west you will work the least days possible at Jazz. Another benefit is with all those extra days off you have loads of opportunity to work WDO's. If you want them.
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Re: Training Department backed up

#15 Post by Kaykay » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:27 am

I get 14 off a month consistently right now on the Dash out east. Dash life isn't so bad you know, it's actually quite relaxing ;)
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Re: Training Department backed up

#16 Post by Black_Tusk » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:16 pm

Kaykay wrote:I get 14 off a month consistently right now on the Dash out east. Dash life isn't so bad you know, it's actually quite relaxing ;)
That's quite good. Better than what I've heard from friends. How Sr. are you?
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Re: Training Department backed up

#17 Post by KenoraPilot » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:46 pm

Dash life is awesome! RSV Dash is 18 days (sucks), but once u hold a block it's 14-16 days off a month :)
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Re: Training Department backed up

#18 Post by Kaykay » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:19 pm

Black_Tusk wrote:
Kaykay wrote:I get 14 off a month consistently right now on the Dash out east. Dash life isn't so bad you know, it's actually quite relaxing ;)
That's quite good. Better than what I've heard from friends. How Sr. are you?

I'm actually not very senior at all. No intention to change anything right now :)
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Re: Training Department backed up

#19 Post by HansDietrich » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:36 pm

KenoraPilot wrote:Dash life is awesome! RSV Dash is 18 days (sucks), but once u hold a block it's 14-16 days off a month :)
Sorry mate, I don't agree with you here one bit. I think the DH8 is the worst possible plane and lifestyle you can get at Jazz. You work a lot and worst of all, you have horrible layovers. Let's put it this way, if I don't get off this aircraft in the next 12 months, I'm leaving Jazz. My standing bid contains every possible base and aircraft that's not a Dash 8... (CRJ/Q400).

I tried to be a sport about it, but it just isn't happening to me. It feels like I'm back in the 703 world, flying to all the hot spots in Northern Ontario / Quebec.
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Re: Training Department backed up

#20 Post by KenoraPilot » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:03 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
KenoraPilot wrote:Dash life is awesome! RSV Dash is 18 days (sucks), but once u hold a block it's 14-16 days off a month :)
Sorry mate, I don't agree with you here one bit. I think the DH8 is the worst possible plane and lifestyle you can get at Jazz. You work a lot and worst of all, you have horrible layovers. Let's put it this way, if I don't get off this aircraft in the next 12 months, I'm leaving Jazz. My standing bid contains every possible base and aircraft that's not a Dash 8... (CRJ/Q400).

I tried to be a sport about it, but it just isn't happening to me. It feels like I'm back in the 703 world, flying to all the hot spots in Northern Ontario / Quebec.

Hans that's fair enough. To each their own. After years of corporate and over seas flying I think the DH8 is the correct level of chill I am looking for. For me its not about overnights, where it goes or the machine itself. Its all about the people I work with and where I do training, lack of bridging and quick turns. I love going to the small out stations where things happen quickly and I can avoid DCA, Boston etc. Everyone is going to have their opinion of what they want out of a career, for me the 8 is pretty great. I love the laid back chill as close to 704 as possible lol. I've flown jets for 8+ years and its cool, but its all about life style for me.

Good luck and I wish you luck getting off the 8 as soon as possible. If it makes you that unhappy I hope this up coming bid changes things for you for the better & if not, hopefully a company out there will pick you up. (Seems most companies are finally paying some decent coin to attract guys).

I also make all my posts with the disclaimer "This is all my opinion" (which is more often than not different than most peoples) :p

Cheers KP
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Re: Training Department backed up

#21 Post by HansDietrich » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:47 pm

KenoraPilot wrote:
HansDietrich wrote:
KenoraPilot wrote:Dash life is awesome! RSV Dash is 18 days (sucks), but once u hold a block it's 14-16 days off a month :)
Sorry mate, I don't agree with you here one bit. I think the DH8 is the worst possible plane and lifestyle you can get at Jazz. You work a lot and worst of all, you have horrible layovers. Let's put it this way, if I don't get off this aircraft in the next 12 months, I'm leaving Jazz. My standing bid contains every possible base and aircraft that's not a Dash 8... (CRJ/Q400).

I tried to be a sport about it, but it just isn't happening to me. It feels like I'm back in the 703 world, flying to all the hot spots in Northern Ontario / Quebec.

Hans that's fair enough. To each their own. After years of corporate and over seas flying I think the DH8 is the correct level of chill I am looking for. For me its not about overnights, where it goes or the machine itself. Its all about the people I work with and where I do training, lack of bridging and quick turns. I love going to the small out stations where things happen quickly and I can avoid DCA, Boston etc. Everyone is going to have their opinion of what they want out of a career, for me the 8 is pretty great. I love the laid back chill as close to 704 as possible lol. I've flown jets for 8+ years and its cool, but its all about life style for me.

Good luck and I wish you luck getting off the 8 as soon as possible. If it makes you that unhappy I hope this up coming bid changes things for you for the better & if not, hopefully a company out there will pick you up. (Seems most companies are finally paying some decent coin to attract guys).

I also make all my posts with the disclaimer "This is all my opinion" (which is more often than not different than most peoples) :p

Cheers KP

Yup. I guess that should be everyone's disclaimer. The truth is that people want different things out of life. What may seem like a great thing to me, may not seem like a good idea to you, and vice versa. "Different strokes for different folks" is the moral of this story. I have to admit that I've always been the guy to "chase" planes around. I've flown quite a few types, because I wanted something different, including jets. While the aircraft itself is not a big deal, it's the destinations and layovers that make or break my happiness. Sure, if I flew to Sudbury every day, but only worked 10 days a month, I'm sure I could put up with it. Working 16 - 18 days a month, mostly weekends, flying 6 legs a day, spending nights in Sept Ille, Wabush, North Bay, Sudbury, etc is not "the dream" I sacrificed so much for.

Would a CRJ, flying to Boston, Houston, SF, etc be it? I'm not sure. I'll have to see when I get there. The only thing that's sure is that whatever "ideal dream" and preconceptions I've had about the airline industry has been (sadly) proven wrong. It's nothing like I have envisioned it and so far, the sacrifices seem to outweigh the benefits.

Perhaps this industry is not for me. Perhaps it's time I hang my wings and look elsewhere, for my sake and the sake of those around me. I'm extremely unhappy and I don't know if there is a job or airline out there that would offer me what I want. And what is it?

1. A decent schedule
2. A decent pay
3. Decent destinations
4. Decent Aircraft
5. Decent travel benefits.

I'm not expecting a 777 captain job working 5 days a month, flying to Munich to eat bratwurst and have beer on my layovers, but I want something more exciting than 6 legs a day and overnights in Sudbury.
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Re: Training Department backed up

#22 Post by infiniteregulus » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:24 pm

How long you been flying Hans?
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Re: Training Department backed up

#23 Post by HansDietrich » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:39 pm

infiniteregulus wrote:How long you been flying Hans?
About 8 years in total. Mostly 703/704. I've been with Jazz less than a year.
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Re: Training Department backed up

#24 Post by infiniteregulus » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:37 pm

That's fair
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Re: Training Department backed up

#25 Post by KenoraPilot » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:50 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
KenoraPilot wrote:
HansDietrich wrote:
Sorry mate, I don't agree with you here one bit. I think the DH8 is the worst possible plane and lifestyle you can get at Jazz. You work a lot and worst of all, you have horrible layovers. Let's put it this way, if I don't get off this aircraft in the next 12 months, I'm leaving Jazz. My standing bid contains every possible base and aircraft that's not a Dash 8... (CRJ/Q400).

I tried to be a sport about it, but it just isn't happening to me. It feels like I'm back in the 703 world, flying to all the hot spots in Northern Ontario / Quebec.

Hans that's fair enough. To each their own. After years of corporate and over seas flying I think the DH8 is the correct level of chill I am looking for. For me its not about overnights, where it goes or the machine itself. Its all about the people I work with and where I do training, lack of bridging and quick turns. I love going to the small out stations where things happen quickly and I can avoid DCA, Boston etc. Everyone is going to have their opinion of what they want out of a career, for me the 8 is pretty great. I love the laid back chill as close to 704 as possible lol. I've flown jets for 8+ years and its cool, but its all about life style for me.

Good luck and I wish you luck getting off the 8 as soon as possible. If it makes you that unhappy I hope this up coming bid changes things for you for the better & if not, hopefully a company out there will pick you up. (Seems most companies are finally paying some decent coin to attract guys).

I also make all my posts with the disclaimer "This is all my opinion" (which is more often than not different than most peoples) :p

Cheers KP

Yup. I guess that should be everyone's disclaimer. The truth is that people want different things out of life. What may seem like a great thing to me, may not seem like a good idea to you, and vice versa. "Different strokes for different folks" is the moral of this story. I have to admit that I've always been the guy to "chase" planes around. I've flown quite a few types, because I wanted something different, including jets. While the aircraft itself is not a big deal, it's the destinations and layovers that make or break my happiness. Sure, if I flew to Sudbury every day, but only worked 10 days a month, I'm sure I could put up with it. Working 16 - 18 days a month, mostly weekends, flying 6 legs a day, spending nights in Sept Ille, Wabush, North Bay, Sudbury, etc is not "the dream" I sacrificed so much for.

Would a CRJ, flying to Boston, Houston, SF, etc be it? I'm not sure. I'll have to see when I get there. The only thing that's sure is that whatever "ideal dream" and preconceptions I've had about the airline industry has been (sadly) proven wrong. It's nothing like I have envisioned it and so far, the sacrifices seem to outweigh the benefits.

Perhaps this industry is not for me. Perhaps it's time I hang my wings and look elsewhere, for my sake and the sake of those around me. I'm extremely unhappy and I don't know if there is a job or airline out there that would offer me what I want. And what is it?

1. A decent schedule
2. A decent pay
3. Decent destinations
4. Decent Aircraft
5. Decent travel benefits.

I'm not expecting a 777 captain job working 5 days a month, flying to Munich to eat bratwurst and have beer on my layovers, but I want something more exciting than 6 legs a day and overnights in Sudbury.


I totally get it Hans, this industry is a killer and never gets better. I had my dream job prior to Jazz and was laid off when the department shut down completely. I was very very unhappy coming to Jazz, but honestly I've just had to make the most of it and enjoy the parts I can. I realized that I chose this industry and at 32 years old and 15 years of professionally (well maybe the bush wasn't professional) but I can't back out now. That being said I was super unhappy when I started at Jazz I considered joining the Edmonton Police Force as Policing was something I was always interested in. But I'm making due with what I have and have decided that I won't FPML and gonna stick it out at Jazz. I'll take what I can from it and make the best of it. But you are for sure not the first person I know who has considered hanging up the wings.

I wish you the best and hope you find what you're looking for! Jazz sure wasn't my dream, but I am just making the best of it. :)
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