WJ Pilot Training Video?

[Black_Tusk]

This site is so hypocritical. On one end people post and talk endlessly about raising the bar for pilots in the industry. Increasing WAWCON etc.

But here we have posters defending a multi billion dollar company who won't pay to have groomers and requires their employees, either on duty or not, to do the job. What do you get out of it? A few extra hundred bucks over the year? A thousand? Do you think all the money saved from not having groomers goes into profit share?

[aerobod]

It's not cheesy and cool.

It's embarrassing.

Some people are easily embarrassed, I suppose. You won't find many people at WestJet that embarrass easily.

Really? I know a few WJ folk. They despise the practice. Only do it because they have to. Part of the job... blah blah. Don't get me wrong, if I worked there I would of course do it because I would have to but please, don't pretend like you talk for all "owners".

The estimated amount of money saved by employee grooming is equivalent to approximately 25% of the profit share payout in an average year, that is equivalent to about 3% of salary. I don't personally know of any WestJetters who would give up 3% of their salary for not grooming, once they understand the impact.

['97 Tercel]

Fun stats but doesn't change the fact that the video is ridiculous.

[aerobod]

Fun stats but doesn't change the fact that the video is ridiculous.

Of course it is meant to be ridiculous, but if it wasn't, nobody would be talking about it, so the grooming message would be less impactful.

[fish4life]

From what I understand WJ and WJE crews can commute for free so I'm sure 5 mins of grooming is worth the free commute.

[Buckfifty]

Some people are easily embarrassed, I suppose. You won't find many people at WestJet that embarrass easily.

Really? I know a few WJ folk. They despise the practice. Only do it because they have to. Part of the job... blah blah. Don't get me wrong, if I worked there I would of course do it because I would have to but please, don't pretend like you talk for all "owners".

The estimated amount of money saved by employee grooming is equivalent to approximately 25% of the profit share payout in an average year, that is equivalent to about 3% of salary. I don't personally know of any WestJetters who would give up 3% of their salary for not grooming, once they understand the impact.

I fully understand the impact.

First time poster here and I couldn't help myself but to chime in after seeing this thread. Grooming, especially by uniformed pilots, is an utter embarrassment to our profession. This is not the matter of "it's below me", it's a matter of professional conduct by someone who is (supposed to be) regarded as a highly skilled professional in the public eye. This whole "we take our jobs seriously but not ourselves" nonesense is complete crap if you ask me. You are in command of a multi million dollar aircraft along with hundreds of lives. Act professional. Being bent over at row 15 with rubber gloves on picking up garbage is the last thing an airline pilot should do.

Wake up people. Have some respect for the profession.

[PostmasterGeneral]

So should change their recruitment slogan to read "Westjet: where pilots groom the planes, and sometimes even get to fly them!"

While I have no skin in the game, I have a lot of peers who work there and every one of them I've surveyed would gladly give up a couple bucks a year to not have to groom.

[groundpilot]

My profit sharing cheque, as a lowly year one FO at AC was over $8300 after taxes.

We hire professional groomers who do a great job. I'm much happier with this arrangement...

[anonymity]

Sorry, couldn't resist this

[aerobod]

Sorry, couldn't resist this

Excellent! The sort of well-adjusted human being that WestJer needs, who doesn't look down on anyone or any task!

[Jean-Pierre]

My God man you have overdose on the 'culture'. I hope you are still so ready to defend the company after the ULCC come.

[moe]

Grooming sucks, but I do it. One thing I won't do though is groom while there are still passengers on the plane. That is the ultimate in bad optics.

[aerobod]

My God man you have overdose on the 'culture'. I hope you are still so ready to defend the company after the ULCC come.

I don't take myself seriously, but do take my job seriously - the only key tenet of the "culture". I like my job and have fun at work, the culture is just a reflection of the group sentiment at any point in time, so there isn't anything to "overdose" on.

The ULCC will be what it needs to be to meet market demand, an interesting development none the less. It will have a different culture, HQ and employees (with a few for start-up who are seconded from mainline for a set period to get things going) with no brand or operational link to WestJet, the relationship between ULCC and Mainline will not be like the relationship between Air Canada and Rouge.

[Blue42]

My profit sharing cheque, as a lowly year one FO at AC was over $8300 after taxes.

We hire professional groomers who do a great job. I'm much happier with this arrangement...

Professional groomers? Only groomers are at 3 stations, everywhere else are ramp crews....

[mbav8r]

My God man you have overdose on the 'culture'. I hope you are still so ready to defend the company after the ULCC come.

I don't take myself seriously, but do take my job seriously - the only key tenet of the "culture". I like my job and have fun at work, the culture is just a reflection of the group sentiment at any point in time, so there isn't anything to "overdose" on.

The ULCC will be what it needs to be to meet market demand, an interesting development none the less. It will have a different culture, HQ and employees (with a few for start-up who are seconded from mainline for a set period to get things going) with no brand or operational link to WestJet, the relationship between ULCC and Mainline will not be like the relationship between Air Canada and Rouge.

Your post seems to imply the you support the start up of a ULCC by your parent company?
Do you also support lower wages for the pilots to enable a successful launch of said airline?
Are you one of the original WJ pilots who undercut the rest of the narrow body pilots in NA, quite possibly anywhere?

[True North]

Are you one of the original WJ pilots who undercut the rest of the narrow body pilots in NA, quite possibly anywhere?

You mean the original pilots who are all multi-millionaires now?

[aerobod]

My God man you have overdose on the 'culture'. I hope you are still so ready to defend the company after the ULCC come.

I don't take myself seriously, but do take my job seriously - the only key tenet of the "culture". I like my job and have fun at work, the culture is just a reflection of the group sentiment at any point in time, so there isn't anything to "overdose" on.

The ULCC will be what it needs to be to meet market demand, an interesting development none the less. It will have a different culture, HQ and employees (with a few for start-up who are seconded from mainline for a set period to get things going) with no brand or operational link to WestJet, the relationship between ULCC and Mainline will not be like the relationship between Air Canada and Rouge.

Your post seems to imply the you support the start up of a ULCC by your parent company?
Do you also support lower wages for the pilots to enable a successful launch of said airline?
Are you one of the original WJ pilots who undercut the rest of the narrow body pilots in NA, quite possibly anywhere?

If we don't start a ULCC, someone else will take the business - it is just a different product, that is why there will be no association between Mainline and ULCC from a marketing, sales, operations and branding perspective. If we do it, we can then coordinate with mainline on the routes and bases. Indigo Partners will dominate the ULCC market in Canada (as they have in other countries) if a defensive move isn't made now.

Wages will be appropriate to the market conditions (as with any free labour market) supply and demand will dictate them. I would look to US ULCCs to determine the dynamics of wages in North America. I don't think the overall compensation at any ULCC will be significantly different than at other airlines, but the mix of base and company performance related wages could be quite different. If the pilot availability is constrained, wages will increase. If wages increase and cause fares to increase (not just pilot wages, but across the board), then the market could stagnate, layoffs will happen and wages will shrink again until a balance is achieved (as has happened in the past).

I'm not a pilot, but I know a lot of the early pilots who are financially very well off, they have done very well from the free enterprise approach that Clive instilled in the company, as have many other WestJetters. It isn't all about "what's in it for me now", but how can we all do very well in the long term if we make this company successful.

[mbav8r]

Are you one of the original WJ pilots who undercut the rest of the narrow body pilots in NA, quite possibly anywhere?

You mean the original pilots who are all multi-millionaires now?

Yes, the ones who stepped on the heads of every other pilot to become those millionaires. It's funny how people can justify just about anything, carry on

[NewCommercialPilot]

Are you one of the original WJ pilots who undercut the rest of the narrow body pilots in NA, quite possibly anywhere?

You mean the original pilots who are all multi-millionaires now?

Yes, the ones who stepped on the heads of every other pilot to become those millionaires. It's funny how people can justify just about anything, carry on

Put down the bottle and back away from the keyboard.

['97 Tercel]

Haha, are you the pot or the kettle?

[.80@410]

I'm not a pilot, ....

That explains why you think it's ok for our profession to continue to race for the bottom.

Bet you wouldn't like it so much if we were talking your "profession"

Luckily, or hopefully , ALPA will have the resources both legal and financial to fight any attempt to have the ULCC do the same same flying for less wages.

My heels couldn't get dug in any deeper, and neither can most of the peers I've spoken to. And rightly so.

[complexintentions]

Some people are easily embarrassed, I suppose. You won't find many people at WestJet that embarrass easily.

Perhaps they should be. Lack of shame isn't something to be proud of.

No wonder the comments on the videos are disabled. I cannot see any member of the traveling public being impressed by such bizarre crap, especially since as you say, it's only to help the "owners" put a whopping few hundred bucks/year in their pockets.

[aerobod]

That explains why you think it's ok for our profession to continue to race for the bottom.

Bet you wouldn't like it so much if we were talking your "profession"

Luckily, or hopefully , ALPA will have the resources both legal and financial to fight any attempt to have the ULCC do the same same flying for less wages.

My heels couldn't get dug in any deeper, and neither can most of the peers I've spoken to. And rightly so.

My salary is set by market forces, in my career sometimes I have taken a wage cut, sometimes I've made a gain. If you price yourself out of the market, you don't have a job. Unless the price of airline tickets become government regulated, market forces will determine the price and consequently cost, no single company or organization can change that unless free enterprise is stopped from prevailing through regulation. Less pilots than demand requires will increase pilot wages.

If WestJet abandons the ULCC, other ULCCs will step in, the one most likely to be successful is EnerJet with board control from Bill Franke. The market forces are creating demand for ULCCs, the public will determine whether they will succeed and consequently what cost model will work.

[aerobod]

Some people are easily embarrassed, I suppose. You won't find many people at WestJet that embarrass easily.

Perhaps they should be. Lack of shame isn't something to be proud of.

No wonder the comments on the videos are disabled. I cannot see any member of the traveling public being impressed by such bizarre crap, especially since as you say, it's only to help the "owners" put a whopping few hundred bucks/year in their pockets.

Few percent of salary per year for grooming (determined by grooming crew cost and turn process cost changes due to simplification) worth about $3000 on a $100K base salary. Unless you work at WestJet, it is difficult to understand why this and many other differences are important to profit consistency and why it is only one of 3 airlines in the world with investment grade status.

[.80@410]

Look guys ( Non WJ employees ) we get it. It's embarrassing to groom in front of guests, it makes a mockery of our profession and it looks terrible when those pilots who either don't care or don't realize that being bent over with ur ass in the air, garbage bag in hand, and saying goodbye to the guests while ur nose is deep in a seat cushion. Those guys that don't see that are (IMO) also the most likely to run through the airport , not polish their shoes, or not iron a shirt because no all honesty they just don't care what the travelling public thinks of them.

However , when hired, we knew the deal going in. So to say now "no I won't help" shows one to be either a liar in the interview or worse... So ..

In uniform , I try to mitigate the embarrassment. I don't groom in front of guests, because that gives me time to do proper duties like review paperwork which is a legitimate and acceptable reason to not be involved at that particular moment. Not letting guests see u wearing gloves or holding a trash bag also helps maintain some level of professionalism for my industry I believe.

That said, once paperwork is complete, and guests are off, I would groom all day long, because that is what was asked of me initially and I agreed to it.