How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

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outflying8
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How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#1 Post by outflying8 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:54 am

I've lost all hope of getting an offer, i streamed IFR, went through 4 eligible offering periods (2 VFR, 2 IFR) and nothing.... and since then they have done 3 rounds of interviews with another round scheduled before the next round of offerings.....pretty crushing when this is the only career option that really excites you and you have put your life on hold for it.....

So what I am wondering is: How long after you were streamed (whatever stream you had) did you get an offer? and what stream were you listed under? And what application attempt was this? (was it your first ever application or second?)

Thanks!
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sflyte
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#2 Post by sflyte » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:30 pm

Hey outflying,
I empathise with you. I feel the same way. This is the only career that excites me. I haven't even reached the assessment session phase. Hopefully, others will be able to answer your questions. I wish you all the best and really hope it works out for you.
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outflying8
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#3 Post by outflying8 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:45 pm

sflyte wrote:Hey outflying,
I empathise with you. I feel the same way. This is the only career that excites me. I haven't even reached the assessment session phase. Hopefully, others will be able to answer your questions. I wish you all the best and really hope it works out for you.
Hey man, im sorry to hear that :( best of luck to you in your application, I appreciate the well wishes :)
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#4 Post by chobs » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:00 am

First application. I was streamed IFR. Got a course offer (VFR) probably about a month or two after I was streamed. I got very lucky with the timing of my application process.

What FIR are you? And have you followed up with them to see what the status of your application is? Just to continue to show interest/be sure you didn't somehow get lost in the shuffle?
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#5 Post by outflying8 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:16 pm

chobs wrote:First application. I was streamed IFR. Got a course offer (VFR) probably about a month or two after I was streamed. I got very lucky with the timing of my application process.

What FIR are you? And have you followed up with them to see what the status of your application is? Just to continue to show interest/be sure you didn't somehow get lost in the shuffle?

wow congrats man that is crazy quick....im YEG..... and trust me I've been on them like white on rice, missed 2 rounds of both VFR and IFR offerings.... eligible for one more but at this point if I get another good job offer at another company i'm going to say to hell with this, I have a small child and wife to provide for and i have put life on hold for too long with no real support or clear answers from them

I am sure they are a great company once you are in, but they treat their recruits like garbage
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#6 Post by Mayor_McCheese » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:32 pm

outflying8 wrote:
chobs wrote:First application. I was streamed IFR. Got a course offer (VFR) probably about a month or two after I was streamed. I got very lucky with the timing of my application process.

What FIR are you? And have you followed up with them to see what the status of your application is? Just to continue to show interest/be sure you didn't somehow get lost in the shuffle?

wow congrats man that is crazy quick....im YEG..... and trust me I've been on them like white on rice, missed 2 rounds of both VFR and IFR offerings.... eligible for one more but at this point if I get another good job offer at another company i'm going to say to hell with this, I have a small child and wife to provide for and i have put life on hold for too long with no real support or clear answers from them

I am sure they are a great company once you are in, but they treat their recruits like garbage
I'm not sure why you feel like you were treated like "garbage". The fact may be that you simply weren't at the top of the pool when the courses came up. An ugly truth, possibly, but a truth nonetheless.

Quoted from the TakeCharge website "Successfully completing a hurdle does not guarantee that you will be invited to participate in the next step. We always invite the applicants that are the best fit to advance – regardless of when they applied."

I think it's pretty clearly stated that nothing is guaranteed. Not moving on to the next steps in the process, and not a training offer. If you decided to put your life on hold waiting for "support or clear answers", thats on you.

I believe I was in a similar situation as you, needed to support myself. I got a new job doing something unrelated, and quit after only a few months because I was offered something with Nav. Do what you have to do to support yourself, but putting your life on hold waiting for an opportunity that may or may not come might not be the best idea.
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#7 Post by A346Dude » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:17 pm

I would never advocate putting one's life on hold until you have a signed offer in hand. The candidate pools are large and my suspicion is most people who get green lit all the way through never get a training offer.
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#8 Post by outflying8 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:45 pm

Mayor_McCheese wrote:
outflying8 wrote:
chobs wrote:First application. I was streamed IFR. Got a course offer (VFR) probably about a month or two after I was streamed. I got very lucky with the timing of my application process.

What FIR are you? And have you followed up with them to see what the status of your application is? Just to continue to show interest/be sure you didn't somehow get lost in the shuffle?

wow congrats man that is crazy quick....im YEG..... and trust me I've been on them like white on rice, missed 2 rounds of both VFR and IFR offerings.... eligible for one more but at this point if I get another good job offer at another company i'm going to say to hell with this, I have a small child and wife to provide for and i have put life on hold for too long with no real support or clear answers from them

I am sure they are a great company once you are in, but they treat their recruits like garbage
I'm not sure why you feel like you were treated like "garbage". The fact may be that you simply weren't at the top of the pool when the courses came up. An ugly truth, possibly, but a truth nonetheless.

Quoted from the TakeCharge website "Successfully completing a hurdle does not guarantee that you will be invited to participate in the next step. We always invite the applicants that are the best fit to advance – regardless of when they applied."

I think it's pretty clearly stated that nothing is guaranteed. Not moving on to the next steps in the process, and not a training offer. If you decided to put your life on hold waiting for "support or clear answers", thats on you.

I believe I was in a similar situation as you, needed to support myself. I got a new job doing something unrelated, and quit after only a few months because I was offered something with Nav. Do what you have to do to support yourself, but putting your life on hold waiting for an opportunity that may or may not come might not be the best idea.


My point is there is not many (if any) jobs I can think of that take that long to process, and have no guarantee....it seems silly that you get good enough marks to qualify for the top stream, they wouldn't let your application expire....for example, a lot of pilot jobs require a fairly extensive process as well to get into a pool. However, once you are in the pool, you will get a training spot, it may take a week, a month, a year, maybe even more, but once you've waited your turn, you are in....

with this, it is constantly you may not get in....now I would be more at peace with that if they would at least give you some sort of indication of where you are. You can't find out your ranking, you can't find out how many people are in the pool, you can't find your test scores. They won't even tell you if you aren't that likely to get in. From a business perspective I understand why but I am saying that as a human being is waiting anxiously on the other end of that uncertainty on a chance at a once in a lifetime career that they want, it is unfair to say the least...

The other major frustration I have had is that I have left numerous voicemail messages and/or emails. And I would say maybe one voicemail was returned, and about half of the emails....and when you do get a reply, it isn't for a few weeks.


I (and i'm sure other people too) put our lives on hold waiting for an offer because we are IFR streamed and interested in lower if we can get it (and in my case I did get a standby for VFR)....And, I am currently on precipice of multiple career decisions and I can't make a sound decision without knowing the variables. The problem with taking a job is that if I do get a invite, then I have to burn a bridge by leaving shortly after accepting a new position....That is why at this point I have decided that if I get another 6 figure offer like I turned down before, I will accept and move on. Will just have to stick to flying and not controlling.


It is pretty sad though that a lot of people I know at NavCanada say they are always short controllers (for IFR terminal control in specific) yet they allow so many people to slip through. It is not hard to believe that they miss out on a lot of people that could turn out to be excellent controllers. Test scores and interview benchmarks do not always correlate to a successful candidate.....

Appreciate your input though
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outflying8
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#9 Post by outflying8 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:47 pm

A346Dude wrote:I would never advocate putting one's life on hold until you have a signed offer in hand. The candidate pools are large and my suspicion is most people who get green lit all the way through never get a training offer.

This is what I am beginning to feel.

I have been tormented over this for a while, I couldn't burn bridges by accepting employment elsewhere and then leaving right away, but I wanted this more than anything, but I digress, it most likely won't be happening.
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#10 Post by Braun » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:57 am

I understand your frustration.
Keep in mind:
- We want the best candidates available, so if someone outperforms you we will take them.
- Our courses are always loaded to the maximum capacity that we can operate. Yes we are short, but guess who does the training....that's right, controllers. So if a unit is short we can't release 10 people to train 10 new people. It will usually be smaller numbers.
- I don't think we have let that many people slip through, our success rates are the best they have been in years...I actually think we are getting it right a lot more than we used too.

I do sympathize with your situation, it sucks, but it is what it is.
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#11 Post by outflying8 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:33 pm

Braun wrote:I understand your frustration.
Keep in mind:
- We want the best candidates available, so if someone outperforms you we will take them.
- Our courses are always loaded to the maximum capacity that we can operate. Yes we are short, but guess who does the training....that's right, controllers. So if a unit is short we can't release 10 people to train 10 new people. It will usually be smaller numbers.
- I don't think we have let that many people slip through, our success rates are the best they have been in years...I actually think we are getting it right a lot more than we used too.

I do sympathize with your situation, it sucks, but it is what it is.

You are absolutely right...it is kind of a sick cycle that to train a controller you need more controllers but to have more controllers, you need to train them....

I just hate that you have to go through the whole process all over again after already streaming IFR.

Regardless, thanks for your input and for being so active on the forum Braun, your additions are always helpful and constructive, so thanks!
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#12 Post by Braun » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:49 pm

outflying8 wrote:
Braun wrote:I understand your frustration.
Keep in mind:
- We want the best candidates available, so if someone outperforms you we will take them.
- Our courses are always loaded to the maximum capacity that we can operate. Yes we are short, but guess who does the training....that's right, controllers. So if a unit is short we can't release 10 people to train 10 new people. It will usually be smaller numbers.
- I don't think we have let that many people slip through, our success rates are the best they have been in years...I actually think we are getting it right a lot more than we used too.

I do sympathize with your situation, it sucks, but it is what it is.

You are absolutely right...it is kind of a sick cycle that to train a controller you need more controllers but to have more controllers, you need to train them....

I just hate that you have to go through the whole process all over again after already streaming IFR.

Regardless, thanks for your input and for being so active on the forum Braun, your additions are always helpful and constructive, so thanks!
It's my pleasure. I am active here because when I applied over ten years ago I also had the exact same questions. Like I said, don't give up but don't put your life on hold either. Maybe you can find a balance somewhere in there.
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#13 Post by sflyte » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:31 pm

I had a telephone interview for a job (not in air traffic control) a few days ago. They asked me what my long term plans are. I gave them a lousy answer because I was thinking of air traffic control the whole time and didn't want to lie to them. I failed the telephone interview. I did well in all the other questions, so my guess is I failed the interview because of my loyalty to Nav Canada (I haven't even been invited to the assessment session yet).

I'm not going to make this mistake again. I really wanted the job, and if I told them I planned to grow in their company, they would have considered me. I'm so sad about this.

I hate it when honesty in recruitment lets us down.
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#14 Post by bobbert » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:52 pm

Well, for myself,

For YWG area, I have timed out of the IFR pool once already.

I’m about to time out a second time from the IFR candidate pool again.

I guess I will try 1 more time if I do time out again.

I’m really interested in this but after over 4 years of trying to get in, Getting to the IFR candidate pool and timing out. Kinda puts a dampener on things.
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#15 Post by outflying8 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:33 pm

sflyte wrote:I had a telephone interview for a job (not in air traffic control) a few days ago. They asked me what my long term plans are. I gave them a lousy answer because I was thinking of air traffic control the whole time and didn't want to lie to them. I failed the telephone interview. I did well in all the other questions, so my guess is I failed the interview because of my loyalty to Nav Canada (I haven't even been invited to the assessment session yet).

I'm not going to make this mistake again. I really wanted the job, and if I told them I planned to grow in their company, they would have considered me. I'm so sad about this.

I hate it when honesty in recruitment lets us down.

sounds a lot like what happened to me, was contacted by a headhunter but it was with one of the companies I would like to work for if NavCanada didn't happen, and I didn't want to burn that bridge by leaving in the event I got a course offer...that was obviously the wrong decision
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#16 Post by outflying8 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:34 pm

bobbert wrote:Well, for myself,

For YWG area, I have timed out of the IFR pool once already.

I’m about to time out a second time from the IFR candidate pool again.

I guess I will try 1 more time if I do time out again.

I’m really interested in this but after over 4 years of trying to get in, Getting to the IFR candidate pool and timing out. Kinda puts a dampener on things.

That is brutal....this is my 2nd time as well.... decided if it doesn't happen this time, Ill go make a bunch of money in a less exciting job and maybe apply for Nav when I retire at 50
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#17 Post by fanman888 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:01 pm

I can sympathize. I initially applied in September of 2015 and finally got a course offer July of 2017. The long wait periods were the worst part of the application process. Nav Canada is still trying to tweak their selection process. Like stated earlier, their current selection process has been producing good results, but of course there's always room for improvement. The previous Enroute IFR class currently has 7 or 8 trainees (can't remember which) make it to the floor and are waiting to complete their OJT (time will tell how many get checked-out), and Terminal IFR currently have 2 out of 3 make it to the floor for OJT. It's short staffed everywhere; we've been short one instructor from the get-go. It sucks that they have to pull controllers to do the instructing, but it's really the only way to fully integrate trainees into their respective specialty as every unit has their own way of doing things because of the different agreements/arrangements, airspace, topography, traffic, etc.

Good luck! And have no regrets!
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#18 Post by ATC dream'n » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:55 pm

It is a tough selection process to get through, but well worth it. I wouldn't recommend putting your life on hold for Nav Canada, if you get a good job opportunity, take it and then you're in a good position to decide if you get an offer later.

I had my in person assessment in March, got the course offer in early August, and course started in October. I was pretty fortunate with how fast it went, but I don't think that's the norm. Reality is, they are CONSTANTLY doing assessments/interviews/etc and they take the top scoring applicants.

Hope it works out for everyone, Nav Canada is a great company to work for!
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Re: How long did any of you current controllers/trainees take to get your offer

#19 Post by TA/RA » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:54 am

I'm going to call it how I see it.

You said that you have been on HR like white on rice with emails and telephone calls. Perhaps you may have put it on a little thick. This job takes a fine balance of being motivated but also being somewhat laid back. Keep in mind that just because you are in the pool it doesn't mean that you have a sequence number in line. If someone applies even after you are in the pool and performs better they are placed ahead of you in the pool. There is no such thing as seniority in the application process. Nav is an excellent company to work for and they are training as hard as they can with the resources that are available. You mentioned that they treat their recruits like crap. This couldn't be further from the truth they as of the last couple of years have treated recruits like gold but recruits = trainees. At this point in the process until you walk in the door to start a course you're an applicant not a recruit or trainee.

My advice would be never put all your eggs in one basket. Putting life on hold waiting for an offer is foolish and irresponsible especially with a young family to support. Go out and take that other job. BS you way through the interview if you have to all because you have a family to support. If you have to burn the bridge so be it. It'll be worth the destruction if Nav calls. I find that far too many people think that they mean far too much to their employers. When you resign you get replaced and within a week they forget you ever existed, this holds true for fast food jobs right up to CEOs of major corporations. Everyone is replaceable even if they don't want to believe it.

I wish you the best of luck but would advise against being a pest to the recruitment team that has control over your file. Go get a job and move on with life. If Nav is meant to happen for you then it will when you least expect it but in the mean time you're watching a pot waiting for it to boil and we all know how that goes.
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