Rumor about %30 pay increase

Discuss topics relating to Jazz Aviation LP.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 693
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by Black_Tusk »

That's not entirely correct. I do know people who have been through the hiring process and are waiting on a course date (from Jazz) and AC has not opened up the PML this year (Last one closed Dec 1st). The PML is supposed to be open once a year, or "as needed" according to AC. So far it's still closed so either they don't need as many new applicants as people think or they are waiting to exhaust all the applicants they have first before asking for more. It still takes a solid year at minimum to get from PML to AC course date.
---------- ADS -----------
 
TheStig
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:34 pm

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by TheStig »

rudder wrote:p.s. the few remaining deferred pilots from PML1.0 are almost all Jazz FO's. There will be Jazz pilots on PML2.0 that move to AC that will be either year 1 or year 2 Captains, or year 1/2/3 FO's. Whatever cost saving that was contemplated by migration of tenured Jazz pilots to AC has already occurred. PML2.0 (and 3.0?) are solely for the purpose of attracting pilots to Jazz, SKY, and GGN so that the AC Express system can continue to meet its commercial schedule.
The true cost savings wont actually occur until Jazz is no long paying it's former pilots not to fly for them. I see what you're saying though, having a pilot on the new payscale flow through doesn't save Jazz any money. This buy out was a long term investment in cost savings for Jazz (and Air Canada), and I just don't think there is anyway the airline would bring back A scale wages.

You'd would have had to think that given the ever shrinking numbers of people getting into aviation that essentially re-crewing what? Half or more?? Of the countries third biggest carrier over a 2 year span was always going to be difficult. There are 2 things that seem to attract pilots to tier 2 carriers; Career Advancement and Pay. For airlines such as Jazz, WJe, GGN and SR the third factor they have to consider is the quantity of qualified applicants.

Advancement doesn't seem to be a problem right now. So the big question is, if (and there is still some if in my mind) a tier 2 carrier is having trouble crewing is operation, is it because they aren't paying enough or there aren't enough applicants?
---------- ADS -----------
 
gtanorth
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:46 am

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by gtanorth »

TheStig wrote:
rudder wrote:p.s. the few remaining deferred pilots from PML1.0 are almost all Jazz FO's. There will be Jazz pilots on PML2.0 that move to AC that will be either year 1 or year 2 Captains, or year 1/2/3 FO's. Whatever cost saving that was contemplated by migration of tenured Jazz pilots to AC has already occurred. PML2.0 (and 3.0?) are solely for the purpose of attracting pilots to Jazz, SKY, and GGN so that the AC Express system can continue to meet its commercial schedule.
The true cost savings wont actually occur until Jazz is no long paying it's former pilots not to fly for them. I see what you're saying though, having a pilot on the new payscale flow through doesn't save Jazz any money. This buy out was a long term investment in cost savings for Jazz (and Air Canada), and I just don't think there is anyway the airline would bring back A scale wages.

You'd would have had to think that given the ever shrinking numbers of people getting into aviation that essentially re-crewing what? Half or more?? Of the countries third biggest carrier over a 2 year span was always going to be difficult. There are 2 things that seem to attract pilots to tier 2 carriers; Career Advancement and Pay. For airlines such as Jazz, WJe, GGN and SR the third factor they have to consider is the quantity of qualified applicants.

Advancement doesn't seem to be a problem right now. So the big question is, if (and there is still some if in my mind) a tier 2 carrier is having trouble crewing is operation, is it because they aren't paying enough or there aren't enough applicants?

Just for fun - Do you think if Sky, GGN or Jazz offered 80K to new FO's do you think that their attrition to AC would decrease? Do you think attrition to Transat or the big middle east carriers would decrease if/once that same FO got a PFO from AC?
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by rudder »

TheStig wrote:
The true cost savings wont actually occur until Jazz is no long paying it's former pilots not to fly for them. I see what you're saying though, having a pilot on the new payscale flow through doesn't save Jazz any money. This buy out was a long term investment in cost savings for Jazz (and Air Canada), and I just don't think there is anyway the airline would bring back A scale wages.
I think that if one were able to truly crawl in to the accounting of the flow of cash and payments between CHR and Jazz and AC as it pertains to the CPA one might be surprised at who is ultimately picking up the tab for the PML1.0 pilots at AC.

The costs that are clearly and directly assumed by Jazz are for the other incentivized severance programs across most of the employee groups. Some were one time - some are ongoing. In those programs Jazz is certainly spending money today in order to save money later (2020 and beyond).

Regardless, pilot staffing across the AC and Express system will continue to be under pressure in particular if growth is still part of the corporate plan. It may be a possibility that growth through acquisition vs organic growth will become a necessity at either level in order to meet expansion needs.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 693
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by Black_Tusk »

I am not sure about this but I recall someone saying that if you flow through to AC, AC picks up all the training costs you had at Jazz (or whatever express you were at). It was a while back, in GS that some instructors were talking about this. Not sure if it's true but it would make a lot of sense why Jazz wouldn't care if you left after a year or two. They have the costs to train you paid for, and can now bring on another 1st year payscale FO.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Pt6-42
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 am

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by Pt6-42 »

So the union is trying to match jazz fo wage year one to wje fo wage year one. Any truth to this?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
KenoraPilot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 902
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:34 pm
Location: 'berta

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by KenoraPilot »

What is the WJE first year FO wage? Cause they sure don't have the contract we have.
---------- ADS -----------
 
fish4life
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2405
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:32 am

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by fish4life »

$42.73
---------- ADS -----------
 
CanadianEh
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 564
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: YYZ

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by CanadianEh »

I also heard Porter is significantly sweetening the pot (pay, retention bonuses and higher RRSP matching). We are finally seeing some gains as a pilot group
---------- ADS -----------
 
dhc#
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 7:38 am

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by dhc# »

:prayer: Supply and Demand :prayer:
---------- ADS -----------
 
Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 693
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by Black_Tusk »

Pt6-42 wrote:So the union is trying to match jazz fo wage year one to wje fo wage year one. Any truth to this?
If they are trying to match Encores pay, that is still lower than what the rumored %30 increase would have been. If it was in fact offered by the company, they should have taken it then.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
KenoraPilot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 902
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:34 pm
Location: 'berta

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by KenoraPilot »

Ok I'll start this with "I'm being the Devils Advocate" and say that the company made their bed now they have to lay in it. They started this process with a B Scale and now they are running out of quality pilots who want to come and work for it. They maybe should have had some forethought vs. being "cost conscious". So I kind of get the Unions point of view saying that they started this, if they want to raise salaries I believe everyone deserves a little bit of the pie. My suggestions is FO's see a good raise, and Captains as well see a raise but smaller one. Maybe fight for some J Class auto upgrades for ALL pilots regardless of date of hire. But thats another one of my rants, i'll save for a later date. (This is all my personal opinion and FYI I am not on the FPML and have no intention of going to Big Red.)
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Boreas
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:06 pm
Location: The haunted corners of familiar rooms

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by Boreas »

I heard GGN is gunning for 35% - 40% increase...

It will probably still work out to less than what Jazz is offering though :mrgreen:
---------- ADS -----------
 
iflyroads
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:50 am

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by iflyroads »

Boreas wrote:I heard GGN is gunning for 35% - 40% increase...

It will probably still work out to less than what Jazz is offering though :mrgreen:
HAHAHAHAHA I wouldn't hold your breath.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Grey_Wolf
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 695
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:23 pm

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by Grey_Wolf »

CanadianEh wrote:I also heard Porter is significantly sweetening the pot (pay, retention bonuses and higher RRSP matching). We are finally seeing some gains as a pilot group
All depends on your definition of significant:

Here are some details that I've heard.

- Annual Cost of Living Scale Indexing (Based on rolling 10 year average, currently at 1.63%), effective Jan 2018
- Year 1 FO Currently 42,782 based on on 85 Credits; Jan 2018 = 43,479
- Year 1 CA currently 77,749 based on 85 Credits; Jan 2018 = 79,016

- OT paid at 1.5x over 85; 3x on GDO/VAC till Mid-Sept 2017
- Elimination of Credit Cap till Nov 2017 (normally sits around 100-105)

- No Change in Per Diem; 3$ CDN per hour, from duty start to duty end, including overnights (TAFB)

- 4 Initial FO Classes, Aug 2017-Dec 2017 (40 spots)
- 3 Upgrade CA Classes, Aug 2017-Dec 2017 (38 Spots)

- RRSP matching up to 9%, based on YOS.
- 4 Years and less = 5%; add a year, add 1%

- One-Time Retention Bonus ( 2 or 3 year commitment)
- 2 Year gets you 3 months base salary at scale level at end of term
- 3 Year gets you 6 months, also at scale level at end of term
- Offer to those hired before Jan 2018

- 2 Year CA bonus range: 20k -29k (15 year scale), 3 Year CA bonus range: 41k-59k
- 2 Year FO bonus range: 12k-18k (10 year scale), 3 Year FO bonus range: 28k-37k

- Example: New FO gets hired on, Promoted within 12 months, at end of 3 year term, is at scale level 2 for CA: Bonus of 42k, detail to follow on taxation and/or option to invest in RRSP

- Commuting Policy, details to be confirmed, effective Jan 2018

- Part-Time Pilot Positions, details to be confirmed, effective Jan 2018

- Internal Reference Bonus of 2k paid to referring pilot, when recruit reaches Year 2
---------- ADS -----------
 
"A good traveller has no fixed plan and is not intent on arriving." -Lao Tzu
dhc#
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 7:38 am

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by dhc# »

So Porter is the "canary in the coal mine", how long before this template has to be implemented at Jazz/SkyR/Georgian/Encore ???
---------- ADS -----------
 
FL-280
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:45 pm

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by FL-280 »

Ain't we loving that 10 year contract eh!!?!?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 693
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by Black_Tusk »

FL-280 wrote:Ain't we loving that 10 year contract eh!!?!?
Everything is always negotiable.
---------- ADS -----------
 
mbav8r
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:11 am
Location: Manitoba

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by mbav8r »

FL-280 wrote:Ain't we loving that 10 year contract eh!!?!?
So, what's your point?
Do you realize if the company needs something from us, the 10 year contract does not stop them from offering more, it only prevents us from asking for improvements that aren't cost neutral.
Take a look at the AC opener under discussion right now, AC needed something and offered improvements to work rules and pension, certainly not cost neutral!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Alcoholism
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:51 pm

Re: Rumor about %30 pay increase

Post by Alcoholism »

Kudos to Porter
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Jazz Aviation LP - Air Canada Express”