Jazz Reqiurements?

Discuss topics relating to Jazz Aviation LP.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 693
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by Black_Tusk »

goingnowherefast wrote:I know several. One was hired with 800tt and no pic time outside of cpl requirements. Several others have interviewed with less than 1000tt and no pic.

The cutoff seems to be some multi time in either seat from commercial operations. Doing well in the interview and sim eval of course too.
Welp, I heard of someone now that has an interview with 600 hours. Times are changing.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
EPR
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:38 am
Location: South of 60, finally!

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by EPR »

I think I'll wait and keep my 703 job until the U.S opens it's borders to ATPL rated Pilots, then I'll apply to FedEx, UPS, United, Hawaiian or American...in that order, and I don't think this isn't a reasonable expectation.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Keep the dirty side down.
Splash
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:23 pm

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by Splash »

I'm curious if anyone that's been around a long time can give me an idea of what the minimum requirements were 5,10,15 20 years ago. I know up until a few years ago FO's had to wait many years before they had a chance to upgrade to the left seat.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 693
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by Black_Tusk »

I wager upgrades will go at 8 months or less this bid. I wouldn't be surprised to see the RJ at under a year.

So while you may think it's worth it to wait for something that may never happen (USA opening the border), in less than a year you could be a Captain at Jazz making around $100k.

But hey, it's not like this hasn't been said before.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 693
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by Black_Tusk »

Splash wrote:I'm curious if anyone that's been around a long time can give me an idea of what the minimum requirements were 5,10,15 20 years ago. I know up until a few years ago FO's had to wait many years before they had a chance to upgrade to the left seat.
YVR was 15 years to the left seat on the -8.
---------- ADS -----------
 
North Shore
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 5602
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Straight outta Dundarave...

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by North Shore »

Splash wrote:I'm curious if anyone that's been around a long time can give me an idea of what the minimum requirements were 5,10,15 20 years ago. I know up until a few years ago FO's had to wait many years before they had a chance to upgrade to the left seat.
LOL..a long time! Not Jazz specifically, but when I started out in the early 90's, Bearskin Airlines wanted 1500 and 500MPIC for right seat in a Navajo..
And when I met my PPL instructor in the concourse at YVR in 2007? 8? he was in the process of getting on at Emirates as the wait for LHS at Jazz was too long, and he'd already been there ~ 10 years..
---------- ADS -----------
 
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Stu Pidasso
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by Stu Pidasso »

Jazz has been hiring 250 hour Pilots, right from College, for years. It would seem to me if you are now hiring 1000 hr guys - they should be considered High Timers.

The industry is exploding for Pilots, enjoy the ride. Let's hope they open the border and all the young Pilots can apply to the US Majors. That will put a fast end to the starvation wages offered by the Canadian outfits and all the general aviation clowns that have been exploiting Pilots with ramp and dispatch jobs......

Can go straight to "Out of Business!" Poetic Justice
---------- ADS -----------
 
rxl
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 691
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:17 am
Location: Terminal 4

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by rxl »

Austin Airways required 3500hrs TT for left seat in a Cessna 402 All Weather Fibreglass Intercepter back in the mid-eighties.
---------- ADS -----------
 
mbav8r
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:11 am
Location: Manitoba

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by mbav8r »

Stu Pidasso wrote:Jazz has been hiring 250 hour Pilots, right from College, for years. It would seem to me if you are now hiring 1000 hr guys - they should be considered High Timers.

The industry is exploding for Pilots, enjoy the ride. Let's hope they open the border and all the young Pilots can apply to the US Majors. That will put a fast end to the starvation wages offered by the Canadian outfits and all the general aviation clowns that have been exploiting Pilots with ramp and dispatch jobs......

Can go straight to "Out of Business!" Poetic Justice
While I can appreciate what you're saying, the fact is Jazz was hiring 10 or so college grads per year based on the top performers in the graduating class, they were still hiring experienced pilots and as of lately that pool is drying up, now the majority is likely under 1500 hours but I don't know that I'm just guessing.
Just want to add something I heard the other day and I'm certain if somebody ran the number it would agree, a new hire pilot today will break even after three years when compared to pilots on the old contract and movement, and after eight years will be 50g ahead assuming they take the upgrade as soon as they can hold it.
My vintage, it was 9 years before I could even hold a left seat at any base and before me it was an even longer wait. As someone pointed out, this bid will likely upgrade some with 7-8 months in the company, which I believe was the entire intention of this new contract.
The second part of your post regarding them going straight out of business, couldn't agree more!
---------- ADS -----------
 
dh89
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:26 am

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by dh89 »

I've just been offered a position at Jazz and when I got the initial call, I had about 1400 hours. by the time GS starts im over 1500. that includes over 1100 single engine piston. the rest is a mixture of turbo prop and jet. along with FE/SO time. I have a feeling i'd be around the low end when it comes to total time; but they probably look at the type of experience that you have as well. I understand that 5 years ago or so this opportunity would have been nothing but a pipe dream for me so I consider myself lucky to be here. It'll be fun being a student again. learning never ends. from what I hear it's a great place to work. hope this gives an example of what they look at. good luck to all yaw and fly safe!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 693
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by Black_Tusk »

Requirements for an interview these days seem to be a heart beat and 500 hours. DH89, I think you'll find yourself one of the higher time pilots in your class.
---------- ADS -----------
 
JBI
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1064
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:21 am
Location: YYC / LGA

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by JBI »

EPR wrote:I think I'll wait and keep my 703 job until the U.S opens it's borders to ATPL rated Pilots, then I'll apply to FedEx, UPS, United, Hawaiian or American...in that order, and I don't think this isn't a reasonable expectation.
If you haven't already, you should spend some time reading airlinepilotforums for information on the industry in the US. My opinion (and I currently live in the US) is that flying 703 in Canada and then thinking you can jump to a US major is not a reasonable expectation. In the US, regional flying makes up almost 40% of the commercial flying and most of those regional pilots want to get on with a major. So while the regionals are desperate for pilots in the US, the majors are most certainly not. I obviously don't know your full experience, but you probably won't be all that competitive a candidate without some 705 / part 121 time.

Now, don't get me wrong, the regionals down here are now offering signing bonuses and training bonuses. For example, first year FO pay on a CRJ900 with Endeavor is now approaching $65,000 USD. Much better than it was a few years ago.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by rudder »

I would have to believe that Jazz requirements for relevant or total new-hire experience are either at or rapidly trending towards the lowest in the industry for a Part 705 operator.

Quick upgrades are certainly a perk. But the pilot has to have the ATPL license and pass the multiple levels of assessment. And the upgrade in many cases simply gets you a reserve block or a very unattractive junior flying line. All of the CA that were leaving Jazz in the PML are gone. There will be some FPML CA movement but these are also the most junior CA in the system. AC has shown no indication that Jazz will be growing as opposed to the other AC Express operators, but the rate of contraction has abated somewhat perhaps in part due to the inability of the other AC Express operators to accommodate growth.

I am not sure if the justification for hiring low experience pilots is part and parcel with the very low entry level pay and the resulting difficulty in being anybody's first choice when receiving multiple offers from other Part 705 operators. Regardless, status quo is just going to add up to many cancelled flights. Hopefully new-hire conditions will improve as will the applicant experience levels.

If I was AC, I would reconsider the strategy of competing Express flying bidders which will become self defeating as the pilot shortage continues and multiple Express operators compete in a dwindling pool of applicants. Instead look at consolidation under reasonable terms with a view to deriving the efficiencies of reduced redundant structures and economies of scale. A single long term CPA with a vendor with long term labour agreements and no strike provisions would create cost certainty and reliability which will be critical for AC as it continues to implement its long term commercial strategy.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rxl
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 691
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:17 am
Location: Terminal 4

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by rxl »

rudder wrote:I would have to believe that Jazz requirements for relevant or total new-hire experience are either at or rapidly trending towards the lowest in the industry for a Part 705 operator.

Quick upgrades are certainly a perk. But the pilot has to have the ATPL license and pass the multiple levels of assessment. And the upgrade in many cases simply gets you a reserve block or a very unattractive junior flying line. All of the CA that were leaving Jazz in the PML are gone. There will be some FPML CA movement but these are also the most junior CA in the system. AC has shown no indication that Jazz will be growing as opposed to the other AC Express operators, but the rate of contraction has abated somewhat perhaps in part due to the inability of the other AC Express operators to accommodate growth.

I am not sure if the justification for hiring low experience pilots is part and parcel with the very low entry level pay and the resulting difficulty in being anybody's first choice when receiving multiple offers from other Part 705 operators. Regardless, status quo is just going to add up to many cancelled flights. Hopefully new-hire conditions will improve as will the applicant experience levels.

If I was AC, I would reconsider the strategy of competing Express flying bidders which will become self defeating as the pilot shortage continues and multiple Express operators compete in a dwindling pool of applicants. Instead look at consolidation under reasonable terms with a view to deriving the efficiencies of reduced redundant structures and economies of scale. A single long term CPA with a vendor with long term labour agreements and no strike provisions would create cost certainty and reliability which will be critical for AC as it continues to implement its long term commercial strategy.
It will remain to be seen if Mr. Rovenescu agrees with your strategy. It will, no doubt, have to be driven by the bottom line since he has spent the better part of the last 5 years or so deconstructing that very structure at Jazz.

The results from a reliability stand point have been less than ideal.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by rudder »

rxl wrote:
It will remain to be seen if Mr. Rovenescu agrees with your strategy. It will, no doubt, have to be driven by the bottom line since Thehe has spent the better part of the last 5 years or so deconstructing that very structure at Jazz.

The results from a reliability stand point have been less than ideal.
[/quote]

There is only one AC Express CPA operator that has commercial cost certainty for AC out to December 2025. I suspect that operator would be willing to extend that CPA with predictable costs for AC in exchange for increased fleet/revenue. And that operator is the only full service CPA carrier (dispatch/maintenance/training/commercial/human resources) and the only CPA operator with a national footprint.

With unionization at GGN, the medium and long term costs now become less predictable and will most certainly be going up. If history is the teacher, SKY will follow the same path. Regardless, predicting costs at GGN and SKY becomes increasingly unreliable the further that one looks out in to the future.

Therefore, if cost certainty and reliability are the two foremost concerns for AC when it comes to CPA capacity, then re-examining the strategy hatched in 2010 to diversify the CPA feed seems in order particularly in light of the developments in 2015 at Jazz which resulted in long term closed labour agreements and cost certainty for AC. It would appear that AC achieved its ultimate 2010 objective
to reduce and control the rate of increase in CPA expense and should now focus on the issue of reliability and offloading support functions that it is currently providing for both SKY and GGN which would not normally fall under the responsibility of the contracting mainline partner.

A consolidated Jazz/SKY/GGN Express fleet (B1900's excluded) would be only nominally larger than the Jazz Express fleet circa 2009 and could easily be accommodated using existing Jazz infrastructure. This would offload the aforementioned support obligations from AC, and provide more options for AC to deploy the consolidated Express assets across the country at locked in and predictable costs to 2025 and beyond.
---------- ADS -----------
 
JBI
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1064
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:21 am
Location: YYC / LGA

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by JBI »

That's a good point, but I thought one of the reasons for the diversification of the AC regional flying wasn't just a reduction in costs but also more insurance in the case of the a labour disruption. I wasn't directly following the events in 2010, but I was under the impression that both the Jazz pilots and flight attendants were looking to strike in 2010 and AC didn't have any options if the strike did occur. From that perspective at least, there is a benefit to splitting up the AC Express Flying (I'm not condoning this nor suggesting it is a "good" thing, just some thoughts as to why AC may be opposed to consolidating the AC Express brands).
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by rudder »

JBI wrote:That's a good point, but I thought one of the reasons for the diversification of the AC regional flying wasn't just a reduction in costs but also more insurance in the case of the a labour disruption. I wasn't directly following the events in 2010, but I was under the impression that both the Jazz pilots and flight attendants were looking to strike in 2010 and AC didn't have any options if the strike did occur. From that perspective at least, there is a benefit to splitting up the AC Express Flying (I'm not condoning this nor suggesting it is a "good" thing, just some thoughts as to why AC may be opposed to consolidating the AC Express brands).
The only Express labour groups that are guaranteed NOT to be on strike between now and 2025 are Jazz.

AC may have diversified the Express feed but they have also seen and experienced the unanticipated challenges and consequences.

At the end of the day, the goal for AC is cost certainty and reliability. AC should pursue the outcome that best achieves those objectives while understanding that the supply of pilot labour is dwindling.
---------- ADS -----------
 
LennyLeonard
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:44 am

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by LennyLeonard »

Is multi time still the ticket in or is PC12 time good enough given the state of things?
---------- ADS -----------
 
FL-280
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:45 pm

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by FL-280 »

LennyLeonard wrote:Is multi time still the ticket in or is PC12 time good enough given the state of things?
For some reason, it isn't good enough. From my understanding, 250 multi is still a hard minimum. Someone will tell you I know I guy, yeah ok, some guys come in right out of college too. Life isn't fair, specially in the airlines.
I have been made aware of some guys getting a call at 700-800 hours, interviewed and told: just build a bit more time.

Apply though, get your application in the lot. You never know. 400 pilots to be hired in 2018!

** FYI, I have pc12 time and I know what it is worth, specially if PIC. Company should respect the pc12 time as other regionals do. I mean; right on the encore website they specify multi or high performance single....

Good luck
---------- ADS -----------
 
speedah
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:46 pm
Location: Clear of 27 on Delta

Re: Jazz Reqiurements?

Post by speedah »

mbav8r wrote:
Stu Pidasso wrote:Jazz has been hiring 250 hour Pilots, right from College, for years. It would seem to me if you are now hiring 1000 hr guys - they should be considered High Timers.

The industry is exploding for Pilots, enjoy the ride. Let's hope they open the border and all the young Pilots can apply to the US Majors. That will put a fast end to the starvation wages offered by the Canadian outfits and all the general aviation clowns that have been exploiting Pilots with ramp and dispatch jobs......

Can go straight to "Out of Business!" Poetic Justice
While I can appreciate what you're saying, the fact is Jazz was hiring 10 or so college grads per year based on the top performers in the graduating class, they were still hiring experienced pilots and as of lately that pool is drying up, now the majority is likely under 1500 hours but I don't know that I'm just guessing.
Just want to add something I heard the other day and I'm certain if somebody ran the number it would agree, a new hire pilot today will break even after three years when compared to pilots on the old contract and movement, and after eight years will be 50g ahead assuming they take the upgrade as soon as they can hold it.
My vintage, it was 9 years before I could even hold a left seat at any base and before me it was an even longer wait. As someone pointed out, this bid will likely upgrade some with 7-8 months in the company, which I believe was the entire intention of this new contract.
The second part of your post regarding them going straight out of business, couldn't agree more!
Jazz is going to be hiring somewhere in the neighbourhood of 60 college grads this year. It will be similar or higher next year.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Jazz Aviation LP - Air Canada Express”