TSC- Training Department backed up

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HansDietrich
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Re: Training Department backed up

Post by HansDietrich »

KenoraPilot wrote:
HansDietrich wrote:
KenoraPilot wrote:Dash life is awesome! RSV Dash is 18 days (sucks), but once u hold a block it's 14-16 days off a month :)
Sorry mate, I don't agree with you here one bit. I think the DH8 is the worst possible plane and lifestyle you can get at Jazz. You work a lot and worst of all, you have horrible layovers. Let's put it this way, if I don't get off this aircraft in the next 12 months, I'm leaving Jazz. My standing bid contains every possible base and aircraft that's not a Dash 8... (CRJ/Q400).

I tried to be a sport about it, but it just isn't happening to me. It feels like I'm back in the 703 world, flying to all the hot spots in Northern Ontario / Quebec.

Hans that's fair enough. To each their own. After years of corporate and over seas flying I think the DH8 is the correct level of chill I am looking for. For me its not about overnights, where it goes or the machine itself. Its all about the people I work with and where I do training, lack of bridging and quick turns. I love going to the small out stations where things happen quickly and I can avoid DCA, Boston etc. Everyone is going to have their opinion of what they want out of a career, for me the 8 is pretty great. I love the laid back chill as close to 704 as possible lol. I've flown jets for 8+ years and its cool, but its all about life style for me.

Good luck and I wish you luck getting off the 8 as soon as possible. If it makes you that unhappy I hope this up coming bid changes things for you for the better & if not, hopefully a company out there will pick you up. (Seems most companies are finally paying some decent coin to attract guys).

I also make all my posts with the disclaimer "This is all my opinion" (which is more often than not different than most peoples) :p

Cheers KP

Yup. I guess that should be everyone's disclaimer. The truth is that people want different things out of life. What may seem like a great thing to me, may not seem like a good idea to you, and vice versa. "Different strokes for different folks" is the moral of this story. I have to admit that I've always been the guy to "chase" planes around. I've flown quite a few types, because I wanted something different, including jets. While the aircraft itself is not a big deal, it's the destinations and layovers that make or break my happiness. Sure, if I flew to Sudbury every day, but only worked 10 days a month, I'm sure I could put up with it. Working 16 - 18 days a month, mostly weekends, flying 6 legs a day, spending nights in Sept Ille, Wabush, North Bay, Sudbury, etc is not "the dream" I sacrificed so much for.

Would a CRJ, flying to Boston, Houston, SF, etc be it? I'm not sure. I'll have to see when I get there. The only thing that's sure is that whatever "ideal dream" and preconceptions I've had about the airline industry has been (sadly) proven wrong. It's nothing like I have envisioned it and so far, the sacrifices seem to outweigh the benefits.

Perhaps this industry is not for me. Perhaps it's time I hang my wings and look elsewhere, for my sake and the sake of those around me. I'm extremely unhappy and I don't know if there is a job or airline out there that would offer me what I want. And what is it?

1. A decent schedule
2. A decent pay
3. Decent destinations
4. Decent Aircraft
5. Decent travel benefits.

I'm not expecting a 777 captain job working 5 days a month, flying to Munich to eat bratwurst and have beer on my layovers, but I want something more exciting than 6 legs a day and overnights in Sudbury.
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infiniteregulus
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Re: Training Department backed up

Post by infiniteregulus »

How long you been flying Hans?
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HansDietrich
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Re: Training Department backed up

Post by HansDietrich »

infiniteregulus wrote:How long you been flying Hans?
About 8 years in total. Mostly 703/704. I've been with Jazz less than a year.
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infiniteregulus
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Re: Training Department backed up

Post by infiniteregulus »

That's fair
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KenoraPilot
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Re: Training Department backed up

Post by KenoraPilot »

HansDietrich wrote:
KenoraPilot wrote:
HansDietrich wrote:
Sorry mate, I don't agree with you here one bit. I think the DH8 is the worst possible plane and lifestyle you can get at Jazz. You work a lot and worst of all, you have horrible layovers. Let's put it this way, if I don't get off this aircraft in the next 12 months, I'm leaving Jazz. My standing bid contains every possible base and aircraft that's not a Dash 8... (CRJ/Q400).

I tried to be a sport about it, but it just isn't happening to me. It feels like I'm back in the 703 world, flying to all the hot spots in Northern Ontario / Quebec.

Hans that's fair enough. To each their own. After years of corporate and over seas flying I think the DH8 is the correct level of chill I am looking for. For me its not about overnights, where it goes or the machine itself. Its all about the people I work with and where I do training, lack of bridging and quick turns. I love going to the small out stations where things happen quickly and I can avoid DCA, Boston etc. Everyone is going to have their opinion of what they want out of a career, for me the 8 is pretty great. I love the laid back chill as close to 704 as possible lol. I've flown jets for 8+ years and its cool, but its all about life style for me.

Good luck and I wish you luck getting off the 8 as soon as possible. If it makes you that unhappy I hope this up coming bid changes things for you for the better & if not, hopefully a company out there will pick you up. (Seems most companies are finally paying some decent coin to attract guys).

I also make all my posts with the disclaimer "This is all my opinion" (which is more often than not different than most peoples) :p

Cheers KP

Yup. I guess that should be everyone's disclaimer. The truth is that people want different things out of life. What may seem like a great thing to me, may not seem like a good idea to you, and vice versa. "Different strokes for different folks" is the moral of this story. I have to admit that I've always been the guy to "chase" planes around. I've flown quite a few types, because I wanted something different, including jets. While the aircraft itself is not a big deal, it's the destinations and layovers that make or break my happiness. Sure, if I flew to Sudbury every day, but only worked 10 days a month, I'm sure I could put up with it. Working 16 - 18 days a month, mostly weekends, flying 6 legs a day, spending nights in Sept Ille, Wabush, North Bay, Sudbury, etc is not "the dream" I sacrificed so much for.

Would a CRJ, flying to Boston, Houston, SF, etc be it? I'm not sure. I'll have to see when I get there. The only thing that's sure is that whatever "ideal dream" and preconceptions I've had about the airline industry has been (sadly) proven wrong. It's nothing like I have envisioned it and so far, the sacrifices seem to outweigh the benefits.

Perhaps this industry is not for me. Perhaps it's time I hang my wings and look elsewhere, for my sake and the sake of those around me. I'm extremely unhappy and I don't know if there is a job or airline out there that would offer me what I want. And what is it?

1. A decent schedule
2. A decent pay
3. Decent destinations
4. Decent Aircraft
5. Decent travel benefits.

I'm not expecting a 777 captain job working 5 days a month, flying to Munich to eat bratwurst and have beer on my layovers, but I want something more exciting than 6 legs a day and overnights in Sudbury.


I totally get it Hans, this industry is a killer and never gets better. I had my dream job prior to Jazz and was laid off when the department shut down completely. I was very very unhappy coming to Jazz, but honestly I've just had to make the most of it and enjoy the parts I can. I realized that I chose this industry and at 32 years old and 15 years of professionally (well maybe the bush wasn't professional) but I can't back out now. That being said I was super unhappy when I started at Jazz I considered joining the Edmonton Police Force as Policing was something I was always interested in. But I'm making due with what I have and have decided that I won't FPML and gonna stick it out at Jazz. I'll take what I can from it and make the best of it. But you are for sure not the first person I know who has considered hanging up the wings.

I wish you the best and hope you find what you're looking for! Jazz sure wasn't my dream, but I am just making the best of it. :)
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Rowdy
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Re: Training Department backed up

Post by Rowdy »

Hans, if it helps, you couldn't pay me enough to fly the old 100's out of YYZ or YUL long term. You're very right. At those bases, the overnights are marginal at best. Its a lot of flying and a lot of shenanigans (not the fun kind) and a lot of work. I almost always bid to avoid the 4 day pairings that come up out that way in our bid pacs.

Out west? Totally different operation. 4-5 leg days. the occasional 6, but only if they've included a ycd or yyj turn (piece of cake) with reasonable overnights. The vibe is generally much more mellow too. I'll gladly do any and all of the overnights we get. I've found great eats in every single spot and theres always some entertainment. Sudbury and Northbay they are not!!

Hopefully YYZ sees a return of the CRJ and it's associated flying in the future.

I've been doing this as, if not a bit longer than KP. Started flying in 2002! My dream job fell apart too. I had little interest in the airline biz, but I'm enjoying the hell out of the classic in YVR and Jazz in general. Out here, I watch the RJ and Q bid pacs. While the RJ would be a bit better, I'd hold the very last seat. No thanks. the Q? Not a bloody chance. It look atrocious from the lifestyle perspective for me.

Hope you find what you're looking for!
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HansDietrich
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Re: Training Department backed up

Post by HansDietrich »

Rowdy wrote:Hans, if it helps, you couldn't pay me enough to fly the old 100's out of YYZ or YUL long term. You're very right. At those bases, the overnights are marginal at best. Its a lot of flying and a lot of shenanigans (not the fun kind) and a lot of work. I almost always bid to avoid the 4 day pairings that come up out that way in our bid pacs.

Out west? Totally different operation. 4-5 leg days. the occasional 6, but only if they've included a ycd or yyj turn (piece of cake) with reasonable overnights. The vibe is generally much more mellow too. I'll gladly do any and all of the overnights we get. I've found great eats in every single spot and theres always some entertainment. Sudbury and Northbay they are not!!

Hopefully YYZ sees a return of the CRJ and it's associated flying in the future.

I've been doing this as, if not a bit longer than KP. Started flying in 2002! My dream job fell apart too. I had little interest in the airline biz, but I'm enjoying the hell out of the classic in YVR and Jazz in general. Out here, I watch the RJ and Q bid pacs. While the RJ would be a bit better, I'd hold the very last seat. No thanks. the Q? Not a bloody chance. It look atrocious from the lifestyle perspective for me.

Hope you find what you're looking for!
You know I've heard that before. You're not the first to say that the difference between YUL/YYZ and YYC/YVR is very different. I have never flown out there, but it would be nice to try. I'd move there for an RJ job. If I'm going to bite the bullet and move out West, to be at the bottom of the list, I might as well do it on a plane that I want.
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KenoraPilot
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Re: Training Department backed up

Post by KenoraPilot »

Amen on the Wedtern bases. Forgot to mention that, 100% different vibe in YUL/YYZ than the YYC/YVR bases.
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Re: Training Department backed up

Post by rudder »

From an east vs west perspective, the better Express flying in the east is done by SKY and GGN. it is mostly all routes that were previously flown by Jazz but have been transferred to other Express operators. That is a result of Jazz jet fleet contracting from 73 to 31 while 39 jets were added at other Express operators. Nearly all of the Express flying at SKY and GGN is transborder routes with US layovers.

In the east, Jazz is predominantly a prop operator. The 10 remaining CRJ200's that are scheduled to be removed from the Jazz CPA fleet represent 90% of the Jazz jet flying staffed out of YUL. However, Jazz has status pay so no matter what you fly or where you are based you get paid the same rate. So if base is your #1 priority, YUL and YYZ for Jazz will always be there but seem destined to become prop bases only (YYZ already is).

Jazz, SKY, and GGN are all competing for new-hires from the same shrinking pool of applicants. And the Express carriers are competing with Encore, Porter, Sunwing, Cargojet, and many others. Eventually, one or more of these carriers will be challenged in meeting their operational plan due to lack of pilot staff. It is a sellers market and the carrier offering the least in terms of pay, lifestyle, and career prospects will find itself at the bottom of any applicants priority list. The good news for low experience pilots is that opportunities to access 705 entry level positions has never been better.

NOTE: Porter is now hiring for a YQT pilot base. This type of basing initiative will allow some Porter pilots to live in a Domicile with affordable housing costs, short drive times, and no commuting required. This is outside the box thinking but if it is a substitute for improved pay then it will probably not avert the eventual unionization of the Porter pilots.
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Re: Training Department backed up

Post by mbav8r »

Imagine, a company with a base in a city with a lower cost of living. Commuting cost between 5-600 per month and has at times had me consider moving to a base, I hope those who joined the focus group mention bases as a factor for some candidates, likely a big factor for some.
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Re: TSC- Training Department backed up

Post by TheSocialChameleon »

Update: Training Department at a screeching halt! :wink:
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Re: TSC- Training Department backed up

Post by bobcaygeon »

I'll take to/from YSB any day vs an LGA turn or overnight. Same credit but a 100 less radio calls and no step climbs, flow, etc.
LGA was fun once. After that it's too much work for = $$$
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