Air Transat YOW

[RRJetPilot]

Passenger side of things:

https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/0 ... elays.html


OTTAWA—Passengers who were trapped aboard two Air Transat jets earlier this summer described hours on end of sweltering heat, a lack of water and the stench of vomit in the cabin as a federal agency began hearings Wednesday into their ordeal.

One witness said she saw flight attendants outside on the Ottawa tarmac taking selfies alongside one stranded plane amid widespread confusion over the July 31 delays — six hours in one case, five in the other.

Another witness described a young boy running down the aisle for the toilets in the rear of the plane, but vomiting in the aisle and on passengers before he could make it to the bathrooms.

Read more:Passengers confined to plane on Ottawa runway for six hours, woman says

One by one, passengers told members of the Canadian Transportation Agency, the agency investigating the incidents, that they would have given anything to be allowed off the planes, even if only to face further delays or long drives home.

They described feeling treated like cargo by the airline, rather than as human beings and accused the carrier of being more concerned about getting the planes in the air than it was about the health and safety of its customers.

These are passengers looking to make some money from the situation.
Human nature.

I watched the entire thing the last 2 days. Funny how when the emergency services arrived the passengers were asked if they wanted to get off and the declined and wanted to stay to get to Montreal. LOL

[rookiepilot]

These are passengers looking to make some money from the situation.
Human nature.

I watched the entire thing the last 2 days. Funny how when the emergency services arrived the passengers were asked if they wanted to get off and the declined and wanted to stay to get to Montreal. LOL

Can you provide a quote that the passengers testifying are demanding more money, and also that passengers declined to get off when (if) asked?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

These are passengers looking to make some money from the situation.
Human nature.

I watched the entire thing the last 2 days. Funny how when the emergency services arrived the passengers were asked if they wanted to get off and the declined and wanted to stay to get to Montreal. LOL

Can you provide a quote that the passengers testifying are demanding more money, and also that passengers declined to get off when (if) asked?

The very person who called 911 first refused to identify himself, only did when his number was read on the P/A and then kept changing the reason he had called 911. He then declined to deplane after he was offered to do so and remained another 2 hours + on the aircraft, with his family until the aircraft arrived in YUL.

FACT.

[Braun]

These are passengers looking to make some money from the situation.
Human nature.

I watched the entire thing the last 2 days. Funny how when the emergency services arrived the passengers were asked if they wanted to get off and the declined and wanted to stay to get to Montreal. LOL

Can you provide a quote that the passengers testifying are demanding more money, and also that passengers declined to get off when (if) asked?

The very person who called 911 first refused to identify himself, only did when his number was read on the P/A and then kept changing the reason he had called 911. He then declined to deplane after he was offered to do so and remained another 2 hours + on the aircraft, with his family until the aircraft arrived in YUL.

FACT.

Wow.

[Braun]

I'm sure none of the passengers asked the captain for a drink either. That's usually the stuff you ask flight attendants, no?

Wouldn't an FA advise the flight director in that case?

Hopefully, yes, but the quotes indicate that they use the fact that none of the passengers asked them directly to get of the plane, as an argument that things weren't bad.

They'd never ask them directly. How would you even talk to the flight director as a passenger?

True but at the same time if I am in a situation that is as horrible as people describe I would first ask FA and then his "supervisor"..I wouldn't let myself die because an FA didn't let me get off. I mean, it was bad enough to call 911 but not to ask to talk to someone in charge?

[RRJetPilot]

These are passengers looking to make some money from the situation.
Human nature.

I watched the entire thing the last 2 days. Funny how when the emergency services arrived the passengers were asked if they wanted to get off and the declined and wanted to stay to get to Montreal. LOL

Can you provide a quote that the passengers testifying are demanding more money, and also that passengers declined to get off when (if) asked?

The transcript is gone from the video feed page. Find the transcript and read second day captains testimony when the finally found the cowardly passenger that called 911. He felt "dizzy" when the lights went out. Then he hid and they had to trace his number to find him. What a waste of a human. They asked him and others is anyone wanted to leave, guess what, answer was no.

More money because in a CBC report one was complaining about that 400$ is not enough, and the passenger that testified on the second day said he has contacted 40 passengers, clearly for a lawsuit. $$$$$$$$$$$

They wont get shit and will waste everyone's time. The Lawyers will make some bank though.

[Eric Janson]

The very person who called 911 first refused to identify himself, only did when his number was read on the P/A and then kept changing the reason he had called 911. He then declined to deplane after he was offered to do so and remained another 2 hours + on the aircraft, with his family until the aircraft arrived in YUL.

FACT.

Sounds like another entitled GenY/Millenial. Most of them are children who have never grown up and are poorly equipped to handle the real world.

They're always screaming about their 'Rights' - they're not too good when it comes to 'Responsibility' or 'Accountability'.

If this had been my flight I would have done things the same way - I can't fault the Crew.

[timel]

The very person who called 911 first refused to identify himself, only did when his number was read on the P/A and then kept changing the reason he had called 911. He then declined to deplane after he was offered to do so and remained another 2 hours + on the aircraft, with his family until the aircraft arrived in YUL.

FACT.

Sounds like another entitled GenY/Millenial. Most of them are children who have never grown up and are poorly equipped to handle the real world.

They're always screaming about their 'Rights' - they're not too good when it comes to 'Responsibility' or 'Accountability'.

If this had been my flight I would have done things the same way - I can't fault the Crew.

Welllll, that was free, for the record this is the champion's face. He looks likes a 70s to me. You guys can't blame it all on us.

IMG_3472.PNG (885.8 KiB) Viewed 3625 times

Dear boomers, this is for you, time will show we aren't that bad : https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/201 ... eitel.html

[complexintentions]

The whole story is coming out pretty much exactly as I expected. Crew trying to do the best they could, pax in an uncomfortable spot, and a few entitled Twitter queens conflating it into a humanitarian crisis. Must be a disappointment to the keyboard justice warriors.

“The only way I’m going to let 360 people out on the runway is … because I have a fire on board the aircraft or a bomb threat,” he said. “I’m not deplaning on a runway for fun.”

Well, obviously this guy hasn't met our friend photofly!

[Gilles Hudicourt]

https://www1.webcastcanada.ca/stream/cta/day1-1-eng.php
https://www1.webcastcanada.ca/stream/cta/day1-2-eng.php
https://www1.webcastcanada.ca/stream/cta/day2-1-eng.php
https://www1.webcastcanada.ca/stream/cta/day2-2-eng.php

For those who like the truth instead of the non sense the Press like to print.

[complexintentions]

Hmmm...direct links to the inquiry webcasts...sure looks like you're trying to hide something, Gilles!

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Air Transat is accused of violating the passenger Tariff that stipulates that passengers must be deplaned if they are delayed more than 90 minutes.
20 aircraft diverted to YOW on July 31. None of the 20 deplaned. Only two out of 20 managed to turn around inside the 90 minute limit specified by the tafiff.
8 of the 20 were on the ground over 3 hours.

The fueler stated that he has no idea about the arrival times of the aircraft. He just fueled the aircraft in the order he received the fuel requests, and those only were sent to him when the aircraft had arrived in a parking position where the aircraft could be refueled. So the requests for the fuel for Air Transat were only received when they were parked at the de-icing bay, over two hours after they had arrived.

An Air Canada 777 was refueled on the taxiway, out of sequence, before the Air Transat flights, and after Air Transat was told their aircraft could not be refueled on the taxiway, and would have to wait until they arrived at the de-icing bay to be refuled. Air Canada claimed the crew was close to max duty time.

Later the YOW airport authority intervened on behalf of KLM (which arrived after the Transat flights) to the fueler, stating that KLM's crew was tight on duty time (how could they be tighter than Transat's Rome flight). KLM was hooked up within 15 minutes of parking.

[rookiepilot]

Air Transat is accused of violating the passenger Tariff that stipulates that passengers must be deplaned if they are delayed more than 90 minutes.
20 aircraft diverted to YOW on July 31. None of the 20 deplaned. Only two out of 20 managed to turn around inside the 90 minute limit specified by the tafiff.
8 of the 20 were on the ground over 3 hours.

The fueler stated that he has no idea about the arrival times of the aircraft. He just fueled the aircraft in the order he received the fuel requests, and those only were sent to him when the aircraft had arrived in a parking position where the aircraft could be refueled. So the requests for the fuel for Air Transat were only received when they were parked at the de-icing bay, over two hours after they had arrived.

An Air Canada 777 was refueled on the taxiway, out of sequence, before the Air Transat flights, and after Air Transat was told their aircraft could not be refueled on the taxiway, and would have to wait until they arrived at the de-icing bay to be refuled. They stated they were close to max duty time.

Later the YOW airport authority intervened on behalf of KLM (which arrived after the Transat flights) to the fueler, stating that KLM's crew was tight on duty time (how could they be tighter than Transat's Rome flight). KLM was hooked up within 15 minutes of parking.

Translation, Air Transat: Its unfair, I was first!!! Blame the media. This is a business. And it works like this, in business: Just do your job, without the drama.

Likely more to this story why AT didn't get refueled, than "KLM and AC cut in front of me".

MAYBE AT gets a hard time in the media, because they provide so much interesting material over the years. Then you tend NOT to get credibility anymore.

Its amusing, to be sure.

[confuzed]

Translation, Air Transat: Its unfair, I was first!!! Blame the media. This is a business. And it works like this, in business: Just do your job, without the drama.

Likely more to this story why AT didn't get refueled, than "KLM and AC cut in front of me".

MAYBE AT gets a hard time in the media, because they provide so much interesting material over the years. Then you tend NOT to get credibility anymore.

Its amusing, to be sure.

I have been following this thread since it started and have come to a conclusion. Man, are you ever a bitter dbag. Your toxicity is unbelievable, maybe you applied and got turned down by this airline at some point and you never healed from the hurt. Instead of constantly trying to slam your fellow airline crew, why not be a little bit more constructive and sympathetic. When Sunwing had people stuck on their airplanes for hours and hours at a time, where were you preaching to everyone and drivelling on about it?

I have no dog in this fight, but it sure gets tiresome reading your bitterness when others here are just trying to provide the events of what happened so everyone can get a clear story of what happened.

[complexintentions]

He is absolutely not airline crew. Kinda funny he's preaching about credibility.

He is just bitter. No one knows why.

It's actually a bit odd, the level of vitriol he's spewing that could as easily be directed in any number of directions. Except of course, that it serves no purpose but perpetuating the image you described quite succinctly, "toxic dbag" I believe, was the phrase? Methinks someone has a bit of an axe to grind.

Gilles offers a factual statement that clearly indicates that for reasons unknown Air Transat was denied fuel while others were given it. That fueling took place on a taxiway in contravention of what Air Transat was told was possible.

Why?

Perhaps rookiepilot should direct his "Just do your job, without the drama" ranting at the YOW airport? They certainly seem highly culpable in the whole situation.

I am sticking with my previous assertion, that there was some foot-dragging and preference given to airlines favoured by YOW. Either deliberately, or through incompetence - take your pick, but neither should be attached to AT.

Do you have a vested interest in YOW or something, rookiepilot? Maybe one of the rather top-heavy board of directors?

[Old fella]

He is absolutely not airline crew. Kinda funny he's preaching about credibility.

He is just bitter. No one knows why.

It's actually a bit odd, the level of vitriol he's spewing that could as easily be directed in any number of directions. Except of course, that it serves no purpose but perpetuating the image you described quite succinctly, "toxic dbag" I believe, was the phrase? Methinks someone has a bit of an axe to grind.

Gilles offers a factual statement that clearly indicates that for reasons unknown Air Transat was denied fuel while others were given it. That fueling took place on a taxiway in contravention of what Air Transat was told was possible.

Why?

Perhaps rookiepilot should direct his "Just do your job, without the drama" ranting at the YOW airport? They certainly seem highly culpable in the whole situation.

I am sticking with my previous assertion, that there was some foot-dragging and preference given to airlines favoured by YOW. Either deliberately, or through incompetence - take your pick, but neither should be attached to AT.

Do you have a vested interest in YOW or something, rookiepilot? Maybe one of the rather top-heavy board of directors?

From what I gather rookiepilot is exactly what he is, a businessman/ aircraft owner, CPL single engine with 1000hrs, IFR rated. Love him or hate him but I will give him his due in that he indicated several times he isn't a professional pilot doing this for a living. Just saying

[rookiepilot]

I have no interest in this other than as yet another example of a business making excuses and pointing the finger at others for inept conduct. I'm sick of hearing that. The CTA should absolutely hammer these guys, and won't, cause its Canada --

My beef is mainly with the CEO, afterwards. Crew? I wasn't there, don't know what they were told.

CEO, Should always stand up, in public, not via a spokesperson, and take full responsibility, whether it's AT, Bombardier, or United. Who knows? I'm sure their relationship with their fuelling company, as was posted earlier, had something to do with it. Trying to get off cheap. Why can't anyone man up, say "I'm 100% responsible, for whatever, and take the heat?

Spineless. I absolutely loath that.

I teach business principles occasionally as a hobby, and I teach that leadership in a business means being 100% accountable, whether the problem was all of your fault, or not. Much like being a pilot. Being in command, means you are always the one responsible.

Bombardier: one of the most incompetent companies I can think of, leadership gets (until protests anyway) massive pay packages, AND rewarded with government aid. Again. NavCan? Everyone complaining. Not a word from the CEO. "We are on it" "We care". 3 million a year. Who hires these losers?

Unaccountable boards. Old boys club.

I just don't get it.

Its interesting that certain airlines, and other businesses, are always in the news, while others never are, they quietly and effectively -- do their job.

Here's the Ottawa Airport Authority's statement on the incident: I have no problem believing this is 100% credible, and AT's excuses are 100%....excuses. YOW has a job. The rest is between AT and its fueling company.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/ot ... 96163.html

Whatever. Canada. No one is responsible for anything. I shouldn't care. But sad to see the state of our country.

Anyway confuzed you're correct. This rant isn't very good for me, so I'll end it, back to

[confuzed]

Complexintentions,

That is such a shame then that he is not crew and has no idea about the complexities of day to day operations.

You are right about Gilles, he always brings factual information to the table so that people can make their own judgements outside of what they see in the media circus. When it comes to aviation, I trust the media (and airport authorities for that matter) about as far as I could throw a galley cart.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, as I am in full agreement with their decision making with the information they had at the time. As that one Captain of the airline mentioned, you just do not evacuate people onto a runway (active or not). That tends to mess up the rest of the inbound/outbounds for a wee bit. It sounds like this airline got the raw end of some deal and the media circus is having a field day with it. It really could have been anyone, WJ, AC, Sunwing, Turkish, etc.

[Braun]

Complexintentions,

That is such a shame then that he is not crew and has no idea about the complexities of day to day operations.

You are right about Gilles, he always brings factual information to the table so that people can make their own judgements outside of what they see in the media circus. When it comes to aviation, I trust the media (and airport authorities for that matter) about as far as I could throw a galley cart.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, as I am in full agreement with their decision making with the information they had at the time. As that one Captain of the airline mentioned, you just do not evacuate people onto a runway (active or not). That tends to mess up the rest of the inbound/outbounds for a wee bit. It sounds like this airline got the raw end of some deal and the media circus is having a field day with it. It really could have been anyone, WJ, AC, Sunwing, Turkish, etc.

Airport authorities are usually the most poorly managed entities I have had to deal with. I also wouldn't trust them, especially with the facts coming from the crew.

[complexintentions]

rookiepilot,

Yes, you have made your opinion on business accountability well-known many times. And I actually share your view overall, that a CEO should be held accountable for their companys' actions. As well as the total breakdown of leadership in Canada generally.

Where you lose the plot is in your total inconsistency and lack of logic in applying your dogma. No business operates in a vacuum, surely you can understand that. From all the information now coming out it certainly sounds as if Air Transat was given false information with which to make their decisions. The accounts of certain passengers are being cast in a entirely new, very unflattering light. Yet long before the inquiry began you had already mounted your pulpit to deliver yet another sermon on the evils of unaccountable business leaders and have - and continue - to pronounce Air Transat as the ultimate villain in this unfortunate incident. Can you at least try and explain how apparently your lofty standards don't apply to the fueling company, the ground handling company, and most of all, the YOW airport authority? For some reason with their statement you have "no problem believing this is 100% credible". From what vast airline and airport operations experience do you base THAT on? YOW airport is run by the YOW airport authority, but they get a pass on what happens there? How bizarrely myopic and completely contradicting your stated ideals.

Unaccountable boards. Old boys club.

I cannot think of a phrase that more perfectly describes airport authorities in Canada. Cozy little fiefdoms. Good God, if you need a target for unaccountability there's the fattest one of them all. Although there is a lot of tough competition for title of "sleaziest quasi-monopoly" in Canada.

Since when are other airlines not in the news? What nonsense. You have allowed your views to be shaped by media that is hardly proportionate. Then you come to a forum where you can be exposed to views from people actually IN the industry - so you can dispute and disregard them. Ok then.

Your rantings are so full of holes you could fly a widebody through them.

Funny though, how the losers impugning the crew and the dickheads who'd casually blow slides have quieted right down since the inquiry started.