Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

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ThePilotShortage
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Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#1 Post by ThePilotShortage » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:03 pm

Regional airlines scooping up anybody with an ATPL, paying new hires to do an ATPL course for free, signing bonuses of up to USD $10k, flight instructor cadet program (up to USD $15k reinbursement of flight instructor training costs), first year FO salary of USD $60k, guaranteed flow to American Airlines mainline without another interview at AA wholly owned subsidiaries.

See e.g.
http://media.aero.und.edu/avit.und.edu/ ... rogram.pdf
http://media.aero.und.edu/avit.und.edu/ ... rogram.pdf
http://media.aero.und.edu/avit.und.edu/ ... erview.pdf

Will this ever happen in Canada?
Seems like we got the short end of the stick.
One thread in PPRUNE mentioned that some U.S. regionals have begun recruiting Australian pilots. Are Canadians next?
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#2 Post by Addicted4life » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:29 pm

It would be nice if it did. Pilot wages in this country have been crap for way too long. With the cost of rent, utilities, vehicle insurance, etc. climbing in the major centers where pilots have to live who can afford to start out at $36k per year before taxes?

I am not holding my breath. I will just keep my licenses alive but do other work that pays the bills. Shame really cause all I ever wanted to do is fly.
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#3 Post by ettw » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:29 pm

Well let's hope so!

That being said, if my FO is getting a signing bonus, I'd better get a retention bonus!!

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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#4 Post by 2R » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:05 pm

Google : TN visas for Canadians non immigrants.
Get a job offer in writing and pick up the work visa on the way to the airport :)
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#5 Post by ThePilotShortage » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:32 pm

2R wrote:Google : TN visas for Canadians non immigrants.
Get a job offer in writing and pick up the work visa on the way to the airport :)
"Pilot" is not an eligible profession for the TN visa according to:
https://www.tnvisabulletin.com/tn-visa- ... ccupations
and
http://www.nafsa.org/_/file/_/amresource/8cfr2146.htm
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#6 Post by Panama Jack » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:04 am

ThePilotShortage wrote:
2R wrote:Google : TN visas for Canadians non immigrants.
Get a job offer in writing and pick up the work visa on the way to the airport :)
"Pilot" is not an eligible profession for the TN visa according to:
https://www.tnvisabulletin.com/tn-visa- ... ccupations
and
http://www.nafsa.org/_/file/_/amresource/8cfr2146.htm

The only flying jobs for Canadians is as Flight Instructors for US Universities-- you enter on the TN visa as a "University or College Teacher". Keep in mind that it is a non-immigrant visa and although it is renewable, it is a road that kind of leads to nowhere else. The Australians are better off with the E-3 they negotiated during the Australia-US Free Trade Agreement.
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#7 Post by sampsonmcd » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:35 pm

Panama Jack wrote:
ThePilotShortage wrote:
2R wrote:Google : TN visas for Canadians non immigrants.
Get a job offer in writing and pick up the work visa on the way to the airport :)
"Pilot" is not an eligible profession for the TN visa according to:
https://www.tnvisabulletin.com/tn-visa- ... ccupations
and
http://www.nafsa.org/_/file/_/amresource/8cfr2146.htm

The only flying jobs for Canadians is as Flight Instructors for US Universities-- you enter on the TN visa as a "University or College Teacher". Keep in mind that it is a non-immigrant visa and although it is renewable, it is a road that kind of leads to nowhere else. The Australians are better off with the E-3 they negotiated during the Australia-US Free Trade Agreement.
Ive seen a few people claiming they have got the TN visa on other forums. However, would you need a degree? Does anyone actually have experience with this? I am skeptical for some reason. I have my doubts Trump will be creating any other visa's that let foreigners in, so we may be out of luck with the Hawaiian air pipe dreams.

As for a pilot shortage, it is indeed here. The problem is we still have people taking ramp jobs and upfront bonds. Flight schools and 704's are still paying garbage wages and having little issues getting staff. If Canadian pilots would stop shooting themselves in the foot you could almost guarantee wages would be increasing. People often bitch saying these companies have no choice, its simply not true. I know tons of people who would love to stay instructing, flying king airs or even for the regionals. If only they paid better. Retaining pilots means more experience and less cost training new guys, its a win win. All I ever hear these days though is guys talking about fucking off to Asia the first chance they get...I wonder why?

For now, flight schools are happy keeping instructors until they have 500-800 hrs, 704 ops are happy letting FO's leave to Jazz and Encore at 1300 hrs. Jazz is happy letting guys with 2500 hours command. Eventually, it will start from the bottom and work up...everyone will need to keep talent and start to see issues with quality and safety. Once the lack of experience becomes a major issue we will see companies faced with the realization they need to pay to retain pilots.

The US had to pay in blood with Colgan before they wised up and improved conditions. I fear we will go down the same road.
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#8 Post by co-joe » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:03 pm

Technically, I'd say that the Canadian pilot shortage is worse than in the US we just haven't realized it yet because our airlines can hire 250 hour pilots, whereas theirs require 1500 hours by law. Soon we will run out of licensed pilots altogether.
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#9 Post by Boreas » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:57 am

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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#10 Post by ThePilotShortage » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:35 pm

co-joe wrote:Technically, I'd say that the Canadian pilot shortage is worse than in the US we just haven't realized it yet because our airlines can hire 250 hour pilots, whereas theirs require 1500 hours by law. Soon we will run out of licensed pilots altogether.
What do you mean? There still doesn't seem to be many job opportunities for fresh 200 hours pilots. Could you enlighten us?
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#11 Post by co-joe » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:11 pm

ThePilotShortage wrote:
co-joe wrote:Technically, I'd say that the Canadian pilot shortage is worse than in the US we just haven't realized it yet because our airlines can hire 250 hour pilots, whereas theirs require 1500 hours by law. Soon we will run out of licensed pilots altogether.
What do you mean? There still doesn't seem to be many job opportunities for fresh 200 hours pilots. Could you enlighten us?
The us shortage has come to a head because there are only so many 1500 hour pilots that meet the requirements to go to regional airlines so pay is going up to attract candidates.

Here Jazz and Encore blew right through the 1500 hour candidates last year and is below 1000 TT now, but they haven't started hiring the 250 hour pilots en mass yet. There is still a supply of drivers out there. Everybody know a guy... a CFI told me 2 days ago of a sub 300 hour student getting his log book certified for Jazz that had an offer, but it's not an every day thing yet. He said he doesn't have any instructors with over 1000 TT. A year ago he had a instructors with over 2000 hours. One of his instructors got a direct entry King Air captain seat! Imaging right seat on a 172 to left seat on a BE20?

Where I work, we are still able to get 250 hour rampies, but my guess is by next year that will end. FO's have the choice between waiting for an upgrade or just going to the airlines. The last one to leave had one year of commercial flying and less than 800 hours. I'm guessing that soon Jazz and Encore will be hiring pilots straight out of school. Then we will see a real pilot shortage. For now, my opinion is that we are at a lower level of supply than the US we just don't know it yet.
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#12 Post by ThePilotShortage » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:38 pm

co-joe wrote:
ThePilotShortage wrote:
co-joe wrote:Technically, I'd say that the Canadian pilot shortage is worse than in the US we just haven't realized it yet because our airlines can hire 250 hour pilots, whereas theirs require 1500 hours by law. Soon we will run out of licensed pilots altogether.
What do you mean? There still doesn't seem to be many job opportunities for fresh 200 hours pilots. Could you enlighten us?
The us shortage has come to a head because there are only so many 1500 hour pilots that meet the requirements to go to regional airlines so pay is going up to attract candidates.

Here Jazz and Encore blew right through the 1500 hour candidates last year and is below 1000 TT now, but they haven't started hiring the 250 hour pilots en mass yet. There is still a supply of drivers out there. Everybody know a guy... a CFI told me 2 days ago of a sub 300 hour student getting his log book certified for Jazz that had an offer, but it's not an every day thing yet. He said he doesn't have any instructors with over 1000 TT. A year ago he had a instructors with over 2000 hours. One of his instructors got a direct entry King Air captain seat! Imaging right seat on a 172 to left seat on a BE20?

Where I work, we are still able to get 250 hour rampies, but my guess is by next year that will end. FO's have the choice between waiting for an upgrade or just going to the airlines. The last one to leave had one year of commercial flying and less than 800 hours. I'm guessing that soon Jazz and Encore will be hiring pilots straight out of school. Then we will see a real pilot shortage. For now, my opinion is that we are at a lower level of supply than the US we just don't know it yet.
Sounds promising. Let's hope I get that CPL right as they begin hiring the 200 hour pilots :D
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#13 Post by goingnowherefast » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:47 am

ThePilotShortage wrote:Sounds promising. Let's hope I get that CPL right as they begin hiring the 200 hour pilots :D
You need to write your IATRA to fly any airplane at the regional airlines. To write your IATRA, you need 250hrs.
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#14 Post by flyingcanuck » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:09 am

goingnowherefast wrote:
ThePilotShortage wrote:Sounds promising. Let's hope I get that CPL right as they begin hiring the 200 hour pilots :D
You need to write your IATRA to fly any airplane at the regional airlines. To write your IATRA, you need 250hrs.
IIRC you need 125 hrs to write, so half experience
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#15 Post by ditar » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:06 pm

What a shame. All the low time newly minted pilots clamouring for an airline job right off the bat. While the airlines certainly offer predictability and eventually stability, the northern and bush flying I did early in my career remains my favourite work to date. I did have the good fortune to work for a respectable operator who paid well and treated us very well, and I acknowledge that that's not universal. So, while on one hand I'm certainly glad those days are long over, I wouldn't trade them for anything and it's unfortunate all these newcomers who will never see that side of aviation, or gain the very valuable experience it provides. Although it has a different set of challenges and rewards, many days airline flying is little more than following the magenta line, and the novelty of flying an airliner soon wears off.
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#16 Post by goingnowherefast » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:31 pm

flyingcanuck wrote:
goingnowherefast wrote:
ThePilotShortage wrote:Sounds promising. Let's hope I get that CPL right as they begin hiring the 200 hour pilots :D
You need to write your IATRA to fly any airplane at the regional airlines. To write your IATRA, you need 250hrs.
IIRC you need 125 hrs to write, so half experience
Still need 250hrs for the PPC
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#17 Post by BE20 Driver » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:46 pm

ThePilotShortage wrote:What do you mean? There still doesn't seem to be many job opportunities for fresh 200 hours pilots. Could you enlighten us?
What the hell are you talking about? You know what 200 hours used to get you? Nothing at all. 200 hours used to get you a commercial license and a 2 year job hunt for a ramp or dock job in the middle of no where. From there it was a 5 year wait to get into an aircraft. That's it. At one of the companies I used to work at, people with ~500 hours are going right seat into a 705 jet. If someone with 200 hours is having trouble finding an entry level job right now I'd wonder about that person. Hell, last I heard Encore is about 2 steps away from taking 200 hour wonders.
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#18 Post by Cat Driver » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:10 pm

Hours flown are a very poor measure of flying skills.

I have flown with two hundred hour pilots who were better pilots than some two thousand hour wonders.
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Re: Will the Canadian "pilot shortage" reach U.S. levels?

#19 Post by EPR » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:00 pm

ditar wrote:What a shame. All the low time newly minted pilots clamouring for an airline job right off the bat. While the airlines certainly offer predictability and eventually stability, the northern and bush flying I did early in my career remains my favourite work to date. I did have the good fortune to work for a respectable operator who paid well and treated us very well, and I acknowledge that that's not universal. So, while on one hand I'm certainly glad those days are long over, I wouldn't trade them for anything and it's unfortunate all these newcomers who will never see that side of aviation, or gain the very valuable experience it provides. Although it has a different set of challenges and rewards, many days airline flying is little more than following the magenta line, and the novelty of flying an airliner soon wears off.
So very true! :prayer: Boom! (ditar drops the microphone and walks away)
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