Future YYC pilot base?

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iamnomaverick
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Future YYC pilot base?

#1 Post by iamnomaverick » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:34 am

Being a commuter from YYC and seeing a lot of mainline pilots commute from YYC (it is also a a flight attendant base) I was wondering if starting a pilot base in YYC is a possibility in the future.
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islandguy
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#2 Post by islandguy » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:49 am

I've heard a rumour, but somewhat LOL-ingly it was from people OUTSIDE of Air Canada.

Nothing formal (obviously) but reading between the lines and based on what Ben Smith says in his roadshows most think Air Canada already has too many bases for an airline its size. And the YWG base has been winding down for years now—so I think the chances of a Calgary base for pilots is probably pretty small. And Air Canada doesn't base it staffing choices on how many people choose to live in a particular city, either.

Just my $0.02.
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#3 Post by atphat » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:33 am

Don't hold your breath
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rudder
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#4 Post by rudder » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:24 am

The very small AC pilot base in YWG seems to exist in part due to the ACPPA and in part to isolate the ETOPS qualified 320 pilots for the one AC A319 route over the North Atlantic.

Cannot see any logistical reason for AC to open a pilot base in YYC although there is an AC FA base there already.
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Blue42
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#5 Post by Blue42 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:36 pm

Funny.....

Capt here at WS told me guys are lined up to go to AC if the union doesn't go through, they're planning the YYC base once it opens, from what they were told!!! Funniest thing I heard. Lol.
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#6 Post by '97 Tercel » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:57 pm

they're planning the YYC base
Haha good luck. They can plan on getting whatever base their seniority number allows them.
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#7 Post by LuckyPilot » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:09 am

Not ever going to happen, if it weren't for the ACPPA, YUL/YWG would not exist as bases. This little rumour crops up ever so often, it's primarily wistful thinking. If you want to live in YYC, better bid into YVR, that's an easy commute. Best career advancement will always be YYZ, it's the primary base, and the centre of most of the planned growth. END OF STORY, FULL STOP!
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#8 Post by aV1aTOr » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:54 am

There seems to be alot of talk over at WJ lately about what AC plans to do. From opening new pilot bases under the ALPA banner to accepting 737 qualified pilots to the left seat out of seniority. It's all a little concerning.

Firstly since it shows an overwhelmingly naive understanding of how unions and seniority function, never mind the lack of control ACPA or ALPA or any employee group has over things like the opening and closing of pilot bases. ACPA currently has some major challenges ahead for each contract reopener and pilot bases isn't even remotely on the table for discussion. And the only way any pilot is jumping the seniority queue is if AC buys and merges WJ. Spoiler alert, AC doesn't have $3B lying around.

Secondly, this kind of energy should be funneled towards bargaining a fair contract between WJ pilots and WJ management, and better the WAWCONs where WJ pilots currently work, not seeking to somehow leapfrog other pilots across the fence to where the grass seems greener (at the moment).

WJ already has a YYC base, are growing both domestically and internationally, they are profitable, and the future looks bright. If that's not enough, there are AC new hire courses planned almost every month going forward.

How does that song go? You don't know what you've got til it's gone.....
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#9 Post by Air.Field » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:40 am

Well said aV1aTOr!
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#10 Post by iamnomaverick » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:00 am

Thank you everyone for your input. I was just wondering if that would be a possibility in the future as I live in YYC and don't think the commuting life is for me. not even YYC to YVR which I did for a while and wasn't too bad as far as easement.

However, with the new fatigue rules you can pretty much count on working more days (16-18 days) then add a couple more days for commuting and I will never be home. That's other than the financial cost (about 10K a year) that is not tax deductible. The left seat at the regional looks more attractive to me from that angle.

Again, thanks everyone!
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#11 Post by Inverted2 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:54 am

When I finish a shift the 20 minute grind to get to my car is enough for me. I couldn't imagine waiting to (hopefully) get on another flight or spend a night in a hotel on my dime or in a bunk bed of a crash pad while someone else snores away.
You are right. The new rules will likely mean more days worked and being home for 1/3 of my life does not sound appealing. The airports are literally stealing from commuters with their AIFs too. Pay to fly out of your place of work? Add that cost up over a lifetime and imagine what you could have bought.
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#12 Post by rudder » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:21 am

iamnomaverick wrote:Thank you everyone for your input. I was just wondering if that would be a possibility in the future as I live in YYC and don't think the commuting life is for me. not even YYC to YVR which I did for a while and wasn't too bad as far as easement.

However, with the new fatigue rules you can pretty much count on working more days (16-18 days) then add a couple more days for commuting and I will never be home. That's other than the financial cost (about 10K a year) that is not tax deductible. The left seat at the regional looks more attractive to me from that angle.

Again, thanks everyone!
Max blocked work days at AC on NB is 16/month with the high DMM (designated monthly maximum). Max scheduled work days at Rouge is also 16.

What is going to happen on the NB fleet is that more efficient flying will be removed from the more senior blockholders to get the junior blockholders in to the blocking window.

Therefore, on a non-vacation month 16 scheduled work days is the worst case scenario.
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#13 Post by Sharklasers » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:25 am

Also remember there is no long term security at the regionals.
No one thought they would gut out YVR in 2013 or shut down jet ops in YYZ but they did.
No one knows what the future holds but if your planning a 30 year career that is a lot of CPA renewals and contracts.
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#14 Post by infiniteregulus » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:03 pm

Are there actually ANY pilots that solely own a house in Vancouver? Don't think many pilots have an easy $2.3million mortgage allowance kicking around. Why wouldn't AC allow for a more commuter friendly sched/base with house prices like that? At the very least a concrete commuting policy? Doing a couple years reserve in YVR seems very hard for most commuters' budget (assuming $65 hotel*18 days*12 months=$14040). That's almost a brand new car for what someone would be spending on hotels. Just a thought :/ Anyway, going back to the OP, Calgary would be great!
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#15 Post by Dockjock » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:15 am

if I were AC management I'd be looking to simplify the operation not make it more complicated. Pilot bases are more likely to reduce in number than to grow. Best advice to new hires is to move to southern Ontario as soon as you get hired. From a work perspective it's the only way to go. If family or other circumstances preclude that, just know that those circumstances, not AC, are the constraints on your lifestyle. If you cannot reconcile that or wait until you can hold one of the other existing pilot bases, it is best to look elsewhere for work. But spending a lifetime waiting for xxx city base to open up, or bitching about how commuting is so difficult and unfair is no way to live.
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#16 Post by Sharklasers » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:19 am

Dockjock wrote:if I were AC management I'd be looking to simplify the operation not make it more complicated. Pilot bases are more likely to reduce in number than to grow. Best advice to new hires is to move to southern Ontario as soon as you get hired. From a work perspective it's the only way to go. If family or other circumstances preclude that, just know that those circumstances, not AC, are the constraints on your lifestyle. If you cannot reconcile that or wait until you can hold one of the other existing pilot bases, it is best to look elsewhere for work. But spending a lifetime waiting for xxx city base to open up, or bitching about how commuting is so difficult and unfair is no way to live.

I spent my whole career commuting and am just now moving into a base.
Commuting will turn you bitter if you let it, no one wants to hear you complain about the choice you made to live out of base.
The happiest commuters you will find are the guys that set themselves up in really nice crashpads, these are more like clubs or mancaves. You won't see them advertised on Facebook and people stay in them there whole career. When things go sideways for those guys they have a nice place to fall back on.
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#17 Post by Fanblade » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:58 am

infiniteregulus wrote:Are there actually ANY pilots that solely own a house in Vancouver? Don't think many pilots have an easy $2.3million mortgage allowance kicking around. Why wouldn't AC allow for a more commuter friendly sched/base with house prices like that? At the very least a concrete commuting policy? Doing a couple years reserve in YVR seems very hard for most commuters' budget (assuming $65 hotel*18 days*12 months=$14040). That's almost a brand new car for what someone would be spending on hotels. Just a thought :/ Anyway, going back to the OP, Calgary would be great!
I'm a commuter. The problem isn't AC really. It is the AC pilot groups attitude toward commuters.

It can be summed up with "your choice, your problem". So much so that the union experiences backlash at the mere suggestion that a commuter policy should be negotiated. "Over my dead body you are using negotiating capital for that!"

Until that decades old attitude changes, if ever, commuting at AC won't change.

As a commuter at AC I'm just giving you the heads up. Don't expect change. I personally don't agree with the attitude as housing costs in major centres are no longer affordable. Trust me I get it. Housing goes through the roof. ACPA negotiates longer flat salary and lower FO wages. Then the rich people sitting in those 2.3 million dollar houses tell you to bleep off.

It's very frustrating.

However for now it is what it is and I took the job knowing that.
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#18 Post by infiniteregulus » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:28 pm

I can understand the sentiment of "it's not our problem", but really, unless you're renting your whole life, or commuting in the form of driving 1.5h from Southern Ontario, the cost of living in these major cities are astronomical. A commuting policy would benefit everyone whether they drive or fly.
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#19 Post by xlwing » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:39 pm

I don't get it either. Assuming:

Rent 1700
Car 450
Gas 100
Food 450
Misc 500
=3200/month in living expenses

At first year pay, minus tax that's what? 3200 take home?
You net 0 after expenses. Change rent to a mortgage for a decent home? Now you're bleeding money every month. Granted there's many variables such as student loans, family dependants, circumstances, but AC is not an entry level job, so most people aren't going in there fresh outta high school with no obligations. Most people have families and established lives by the point they hit AC.
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#20 Post by infiniteregulus » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:42 pm

All very true. How could Encore and Jazz have a commuting policy and not AC? I can't understand how that would eat up "negotiating capital" for something so common in our industry?
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#21 Post by Blue42 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:09 pm

'97 Tercel wrote:
they're planning the YYC base
Haha good luck. They can plan on getting whatever base their seniority number allows them.
That's exactly what I said.......blows me away how naive some of our group are!
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#22 Post by Blue42 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:10 pm

aV1aTOr wrote:There seems to be alot of talk over at WJ lately about what AC plans to do. From opening new pilot bases under the ALPA banner to accepting 737 qualified pilots to the left seat out of seniority. It's all a little concerning.

Firstly since it shows an overwhelmingly naive understanding of how unions and seniority function, never mind the lack of control ACPA or ALPA or any employee group has over things like the opening and closing of pilot bases. ACPA currently has some major challenges ahead for each contract reopener and pilot bases isn't even remotely on the table for discussion. And the only way any pilot is jumping the seniority queue is if AC buys and merges WJ. Spoiler alert, AC doesn't have $3B lying around.

Secondly, this kind of energy should be funneled towards bargaining a fair contract between WJ pilots and WJ management, and better the WAWCONs where WJ pilots currently work, not seeking to somehow leapfrog other pilots across the fence to where the grass seems greener (at the moment).

WJ already has a YYC base, are growing both domestically and internationally, they are profitable, and the future looks bright. If that's not enough, there are AC new hire courses planned almost every month going forward.

How does that song go? You don't know what you've got til it's gone.....
+1!!!!
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#23 Post by altiplano » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:18 pm

xlwing wrote:I don't get it either. Assuming:

Rent 1700
Car 450
Gas 100
Food 450
Misc 500
=3200/month in living expenses

At first year pay, minus tax that's what? 3200 take home?
You net 0 after expenses. Change rent to a mortgage for a decent home? Now you're bleeding money every month. Granted there's many variables such as student loans, family dependants, circumstances, but AC is not an entry level job, so most people aren't going in there fresh outta high school with no obligations. Most people have families and established lives by the point they hit AC.
Live within your means...

$450 car payment?
What a wealth killer.

I have a 10 year old import.
It runs...

I used to pay $1700 rent.
I moved.

My mortgage is now about $1000.
I live 40 min away from YYZ by car, an hour on transit...

Don't get me wrong the flat salary at AC sucks balls. You can thank our sh!t bait and switch complicit union for that and all the @ssholes that can't see the direction we are headed... they think they "have it" and have tuned out of reality.

Anyway... live in your means, find an affordable city/neighbourhood and don't finance a new car.
And while you can, I wouldn't commute. esp. for the first while, and then maybe only if it was out of the Bahamas or similar... tax free and about the same distance as YYC to YYZ...
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#24 Post by rudder » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:17 am

Bottom line - AC year 1/2/3/4 year FO/RP pay is a fraction of that paid by all other North American legacy carriers. This is not a COLA issue, it is a straight cost saving centre for AC. One year? Fine. Two yeas? Really? Three years? Four years? By the end of 2018 there will be over 1000 AC pilots on this pay scale. That is over 1/4 of the seniority list.

This issue was not even touched in the TA.
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Re: Future YYC pilot base?

#25 Post by infiniteregulus » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:23 am

Might as well just buy a tent and start living in the campgrounds off Capilano :lol:
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