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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:38 am 
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Maybe it's a sustainability thing? Instead of having big booms and busts with the cyclical nature of the economy, they want to subdue and dampen the volatility with a sustainable model. I don't think they have any problem of attracting pilots, as I'm sure there's thousands lined up out the door. It is THE carrot for the regionals after all. The bean counters probably came to such a pay-figure to where they can have the cost savings without jeopardizing attraction.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:34 pm 
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Location: A Smokn' Hole
rudder wrote:
Bottom line - AC year 1/2/3/4 year FO/RP pay is a fraction of that paid by all other North American legacy carriers. This is not a COLA issue, it is a straight cost saving centre for AC. One year? Fine. Two yeas? Really? Three years? Four years? By the end of 2018 there will be over 1000 AC pilots on this pay scale. That is over 1/4 of the seniority list.

This issue was not even touched in the TA.


Bang on

Four years flat pay was an insane win for the company. We have some of the lowest paid wide body FO's in the business.

The problem is compounded with the DC pension and flat pay. It was a huge sell out to all new hires.



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:26 am 
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YYC Pilot base was a rumour my entire career at AC; don't hold your breath.

There are better ways than fixed bases anyway; they inflate costs artificially in many cases.



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:30 am 
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Location: south saturn delta
groundpilot wrote:
rudder wrote:
Bottom line - AC year 1/2/3/4 year FO/RP pay is a fraction of that paid by all other North American legacy carriers. This is not a COLA issue, it is a straight cost saving centre for AC. One year? Fine. Two yeas? Really? Three years? Four years? By the end of 2018 there will be over 1000 AC pilots on this pay scale. That is over 1/4 of the seniority list.

This issue was not even touched in the TA.


Bang on

Four years flat pay was an insane win for the company. We have some of the lowest paid wide body FO's in the business.

The problem is compounded with the DC pension and flat pay. It was a huge sell out to all new hires.


It bears mentioning that none of that was proposed by ACPA, it was gained in arbitration by the company. ACPA stepped on their dicks, multiple times, in that whole process, but I don't believe it is fair to categorize it as a sell-out as the fact remains that no pilot voted for it. We didn't gain anything from new hires' loss is what I'm trying to say, which would be my categorization of a sell-out.



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:31 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:10 am
Posts: 195
Location: A Smokn' Hole
Dockjock wrote:
groundpilot wrote:
rudder wrote:
Bottom line - AC year 1/2/3/4 year FO/RP pay is a fraction of that paid by all other North American legacy carriers. This is not a COLA issue, it is a straight cost saving centre for AC. One year? Fine. Two yeas? Really? Three years? Four years? By the end of 2018 there will be over 1000 AC pilots on this pay scale. That is over 1/4 of the seniority list.

This issue was not even touched in the TA.


Bang on

Four years flat pay was an insane win for the company. We have some of the lowest paid wide body FO's in the business.

The problem is compounded with the DC pension and flat pay. It was a huge sell out to all new hires.




It bears mentioning that none of that was proposed by ACPA, it was gained in arbitration by the company. ACPA stepped on their dicks, multiple times, in that whole process, but I don't believe it is fair to categorize it as a sell-out as the fact remains that no pilot voted for it. We didn't gain anything from new hires' loss is what I'm trying to say, which would be my categorization of a sell-out.


Fair enough!



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:37 pm 
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Weird because ACPA is pretty much the best at what they do.


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