Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

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Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#1 Post by GTF » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:40 pm

Hi Everyone, my first post on here.

I'm a US pilot, been at a regional here in the Pac NW for about 2 years now. I lived in Canada years ago, and my family and I have decided to relocate back to the lower mainland BC early next year. My wife and kid are dual citizens, and I have landed immigrant status up there, so none of that will be a problem.

We've got most of our bases covered in terms of housing etc, but I'm trying to figure out what to do with my career.

I was looking into switching my licenses and going to a Canadian carrier, but I was shocked to see what they are paying you guys up there. I guess you guys don't have anywhere near the kind of pilot shortage that we have down here? My hope was to eventually get hired on at one of the majors up there where I could eventually be YVR based, but I'm obviously having second thoughts about that.

Are there any pilots here that commute down to the US? I could easily be SEA based at my current gig, so I'm really leaning toward that and just commuting out of YVR. I live in base at the moment, and I know that commuting would be a bit of a pain with customs and everything, but I have NEXUS, and it seems that the the major disparity in pay would make it worth it. Plus, USD living in Canada.

The pilot shortage is very real down here, and it's honestly getting a bit crazy. Most regional carriers are upgrading at less than two years now. Wages down here have skyrocketed in the past few years, and I sincerely hope the same happens for you guys up there too.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#2 Post by J31 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:35 pm

Well my first advice is to NOT move into a commuting position.

Commuting across the US/Canadian border is expensive. On the two main Canadian airlines it will cost you +$100C per trip and you can thank Uncle Sam for +$70C of that.

Not sure about jump seat on US carriers but I believe they will pass on similar cost.

On a side note...it costs $0 to drive across the US/Canada border.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#3 Post by justwork » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:16 pm

J31 wrote:Well my first advice is to NOT move into a commuting position.

Commuting across the US/Canadian border is expensive. On the two main Canadian airlines it will cost you +$100C per trip and you can thank Uncle Sam for +$70C of that.

Not sure about jump seat on US carriers but I believe they will pass on similar cost.

On a side note...it costs $0 to drive across the US/Canada border.
Likely close to $100 in fuel when you drive.

You also might want to do some research on the tax implications of living full time in Canada while working in the USA. You might get dinged twice, making the USD/CAD difference nothing at all.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#4 Post by Black_Tusk » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:21 pm

I only know one person who commutes from the USA to Canada.. other than that can't help ya. He says it isn't cheap though.

While the regionals in Canada don't pay a lot as FO have you considered applying to Encore as a DEC? What is your experience? Are you an FO or Captain? What type?

Jazz has extremely quick upgrades right now, and if you decided to jump over to a Canadian carrier like Jazz you would be making around $90k within 2 years. Canada typically follows US trends by a few years, and in regards to the pilots shortage I believe it is just starting to ramp up in Canada. A regional (Porter) just started a retention bonus scheme which is the first in Canada. I believe it is a sign of things to come, along with the fact many other regionals are having trouble keeping planes in the air.

Another idea would be Horizon or another regional out of SEA. Air Canada Express and Horizon operate that flight very regularly so I don't forsee commuting being much trouble. And Horizon would be your in at Alaska from what I understand.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#5 Post by Black_Tusk » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:23 pm

justwork wrote:
J31 wrote:Well my first advice is to NOT move into a commuting position.

Commuting across the US/Canadian border is expensive. On the two main Canadian airlines it will cost you +$100C per trip and you can thank Uncle Sam for +$70C of that.

Not sure about jump seat on US carriers but I believe they will pass on similar cost.

On a side note...it costs $0 to drive across the US/Canada border.
Likely close to $100 in fuel when you drive.

You also might want to do some research on the tax implications of living full time in Canada while working in the USA. You might get dinged twice, making the USD/CAD difference nothing at all.
A friend works in Bellingham and lives in White Rock. He tried explaining it and IIRC you get some kind of refund on your US taxes when you pay your Canadian ones.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#6 Post by JBI » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:38 pm

Welcome!

I'm doing it the opposite to you at the moment though I've run into a couple DAL pilots who live in Canada but are based in the US.

Customs isn't too bad with NEXUS - just make sure you have any visas listed properly (though generally more important going TO the US than to Canada). I've had a couple visits at the NEXUS offices at the various airports to make sure all the documentation was correct. The only real challenge I have is trying to bring healthy foods with me on pairings. It's hard to cook healthy meals in one country and then bring them to the other.

Commuting is commuting. It's not amazing, but Happy Wife, Happy Life and all that. We're in a pretty lucky position that as pilots we do have that option. We factored it our calculations prior to moving, but the extra $50-$60 to cross southbound is always a kick in the, er, teeth.

With the exchange rate, US pilot shortage and salaries south of the border, financially you will be further ahead commuting to a US carrier. I think it depends on where you see yourself long term and now, whether you are in any sort of flow or prioritized hiring arrangement with the regional you're currently at.

Quality of life is also a big factor. For the guys I know at Delta (one's a Captain but purposely bids narrow body flying for higher seniority and the other is an FO, but ex-US military transports) the lifestyle even with the commute is better than they could get at a regional in Canada and equivalent to AC (with higher pay). The regionals will be tougher to do - but from what I can tell from folks who work with a few different regionals down here, due to the size and different types of flying, generally speaking, once you have pretty decent seniority the schedule is equal to or better what you can get at Jazz or Encore.

One other option could also be Atlas Air Cargo or similar. I know of another pilot who lives in Canada but has an Anchorage domicile. His schedule is basically 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Not for everybody, but could be an option as well.

Once you're able (I think you need to have a certain number of posts), send me a PM and I can try and get you in touch with the DAL pilots and they can give you more pointers.

Cheers.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#7 Post by flashheart » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:20 pm

So let me get this straight:

You moved from the country with a massive pilot shortage and much better compensation to move to the home of traffic congestion, money laundering, real estate shadow flipping, taxes, and where English is the second most pronounced language.

Can you move back?
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#8 Post by DanWEC » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:26 pm

Lol. What a trolling fake post! Who actually goes onto a forum looking for suggestions, however, immediately talks about low pay and other topics immediately provocative to Canadian pilots, especially given local topics on this board. Sheesh. So, who's alter ego is this?
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#9 Post by GTF » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:53 pm

DanWEC wrote:Lol. What a trolling fake post! Who actually goes onto a forum looking for suggestions, however, immediately talks about low pay and other topics immediately provocative to Canadian pilots, especially given local topics on this board. Sheesh. So, who's alter ego is this?
Well, I assure you it's not a fake post. I was a little concerned that it might come across as 'provocative' as you put it, however that was not my intent. In my initial search for answers, I noted several threads on this board related to Canadian pilots wanting to work in the US, and I was really just trying to acknowledge that.
Black_Tusk wrote: While the regionals in Canada don't pay a lot as FO have you considered applying to Encore as a DEC? What is your experience? Are you an FO or Captain? What type?

Jazz has extremely quick upgrades right now, and if you decided to jump over to a Canadian carrier like Jazz you would be making around $90k within 2 years. Canada typically follows US trends by a few years, and in regards to the pilots shortage I believe it is just starting to ramp up in Canada. A regional (Porter) just started a retention bonus scheme which is the first in Canada. I believe it is a sign of things to come, along with the fact many other regionals are having trouble keeping planes in the air.

Another idea would be Horizon or another regional out of SEA. Air Canada Express and Horizon operate that flight very regularly so I don't forsee commuting being much trouble. And Horizon would be your in at Alaska from what I understand.
What is a DEC at Encore? I know the company, but not sure what you are referring to. I'm an FO in the Q400 at Horizon. I'm pretty much at the point where I can upgrade here, though I'll probably wait until after I move. We have folks upgrading from the Q400 into the left seat of the E-175 as well, either airframe is upgrading at the regulatory minimums, which is 1000 SIC here. We have canceled hundreds, maybe thousands of flights so far this year due to lack of pilots, so they've sweetened the pot considerably since I started here.

As far as taxes, my understanding is that you are not double taxed. I will pay the normal US taxes here, and when I file in Canada, they subtract whatever I already paid in the US and I pay the difference.

For the fees on the jumpseat out of YVR, I think it's about $41 USD going south on our own metal, however nothing going north. Since its an international flight, unless it's a Horizon flight, I don't believe I can actually sit in the jump, limited to space in the back. Since a couple of flights a day out of YVR are actually Alaska mainline, I don't think I can take the jumpseat on those out of YVR. Bellingham may be a better option, but then there's parking and fuel, but at least I could stop at the grocery store.
flashheart wrote:So let me get this straight:

You moved from the country with a massive pilot shortage and much better compensation to move to the home of traffic congestion, money laundering, real estate shadow flipping, taxes, and where English is the second most pronounced language.

Can you move back?
I've lived in both countries, up and down the west coast. We've obviously got plenty of our own issues. As for traffic... have you been through Seattle or Portland lately? They're every bit as bad as Vancouver. We want to be closer to family (wife's family is in Vancouver), and Canada has always felt like home to me since I spent most of my formative years there. I'm happy to finally be moving back.

Thanks for all the responses. I'm apologize if I came off in a condescending way or anything of the sort, that was certainly not my intent. Was just looking for some additional information on doing this cross-border commute.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#10 Post by justwork » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:24 am

If you're moving to Vancouver, and want to afford it, why don't you look at commuting to China? 2 weeks on 2 weeks off would be a pretty good gig from Vancouver.

I commute to China, money and schedule can't be beat. Never had a better job. I can only imagine how much easier it would be to commute from Vancouver instead of Eastern Canada.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#11 Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:58 am

GTF wrote: What is a DEC at Encore? I know the company, but not sure what you are referring to.
DEC means Direct Entry Captain
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#12 Post by ARGO » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:19 am

Hey GTF, just curious what you are making as a Q400 FO? You say you were shocked at wages north of the border...you have me curious. I went on Horizon's career page and they advertise a wage of $40,000 based on 1000 credit hours...which is around 85/month. Is that not on par with Porter/Jazz credit/pay?
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#13 Post by DanWEC » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:01 am

There are people out there that have made posts purely to watch the subsequent drama unfold. Maybe I'm becoming Avcanada jaded! Didn't seem condescending, just a convenient hot button issue.

I would be curious as to what the real disparity amounts to. Do the major carriers in the States only hire from their sub carriers? I for one would like to be able to commute from Windsor to Detroit (Yes, really.) if the work permit thing ever allowed it.

Cheers.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#14 Post by jd832 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:31 am

I did the same. I'm an American working and living in Canada. I worked for a regional in the US and then moved to Canada. I worked for a regional airline here in Canada for a couple years then moved on to a bigger airline.

The problem with living in Canada on your Permanent Residency status while commuting out of the country for work is that you will be absent from the country to much. When it is time to renew you PR or apply for citizenship, you will not qualify for it.

An absents is considered a calendar day. So if you left today at noon and came back sometime tomorrow, you where technically present both days and this wouldn't count as an absents. But if you came back the day after tomorrow then it is an absents. It would be difficult for you to meet the minimum residency obligation while on multi day pairing while in the U.S.

Minimum residency obligations:

You must meet the residency obligation to get a PR Card.

If you have been a permanent resident for five (5) years or more:

You must have been physically present in Canada for a minimum of 730 days within the past five (5) years.

If you have been a permanent resident for less than five (5) years:

You must show that you will be able to meet the minimum of 730 days of physical presence in Canada within five (5) years of the date you became a permanent resident.

If you really want to live here, I would suggest you convert your FAA ATP to a TC ATPL and get a job up here as soon as you convert you ATP.

Once you're a Canadian Citizen then you can live here and work where ever you want. I learned this the hard way.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#15 Post by GTF » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:49 am

ARGO wrote:Hey GTF, just curious what you are making as a Q400 FO? You say you were shocked at wages north of the border...you have me curious. I went on Horizon's career page and they advertise a wage of $40,000 based on 1000 credit hours...which is around 85/month. Is that not on par with Porter/Jazz credit/pay?
I guess I wasn't exactly clear about which wages I was referring to. Jazz, Encore etc don't seem too far off what we're paying down here at the regionals, at least on the west coast (there are some back east making considerably more, but that's another story). There's also the 20ish % exchange rate, so I suppose it's still a little more down here, but it's the major carrier's wages that really surprised me.

It's also possible that the information I have is out of date, but what they have listed on airlinepilotcentral.com for Air Canada & Westjet doesn't seem like it's even in the same ball park as places like Delta and United. Maybe they've made some recent changes that are not reflected on there, I'm not sure.

For example, second year FOs according are listed at $57 & $61 for Air Canada & WestJet respectively. Compare that to Delta & United at $120 & 125... USD. Also, year 5ish payscales in Canada seem to be about on par with first year FOs at DL or UA. THAT is what I thought was crazy. Is that information accurate?

Alaska Airlines is quite a bit lower than that at the moment, however I expect that to change soon. They are in the process of merging with Virgin America, and last I heard they were in arbitration (one of their pilots I talked to a couple days ago said they expected to have something by the end of October). They've been having trouble staffing flights as well, so I expect there will be some significant upward trend with their pay scale by the end of the year or so. I don't think anyone expects Alaska to try to match Delta, United or American wages, but I do expect that they'll at least get somewhat close.

It seems like CAs going from a regional to a major up there have to take some pretty significant pay cuts for quite a while. That does sometimes occur down here, though usually for the very senior CAs, and only for a couple years before they catch up.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#16 Post by jd832 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:50 am

DanWEC wrote:There are people out there that have made posts purely to watch the subsequent drama unfold. Maybe I'm becoming Avcanada jaded! Didn't seem condescending, just a convenient hot button issue.

I would be curious as to what the real disparity amounts to. Do the major carriers in the States only hire from their sub carriers? I for one would like to be able to commute from Windsor to Detroit (Yes, really.) if the work permit thing ever allowed it.

Cheers.
No. The majors hire from all regionals. Although there are some that have direct seniority flow through without having to interview.
With that said, those same majors don't hire based on 100% flow. The classes will be mixed with OTS applicants as well predominantly from the regionals, ACMI operators, and the military.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#17 Post by GTF » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:56 am

DanWEC wrote:There are people out there that have made posts purely to watch the subsequent drama unfold. Maybe I'm becoming Avcanada jaded! Didn't seem condescending, just a convenient hot button issue.

I would be curious as to what the real disparity amounts to. Do the major carriers in the States only hire from their sub carriers? I for one would like to be able to commute from Windsor to Detroit (Yes, really.) if the work permit thing ever allowed it.

Cheers.
I understand. You'll have to forgive me, I'm an American. We're not exactly known for being tactful! :mrgreen:

There are some flow programs, however it really isn't a huge percentage of the total hiring that they do. Lots of movement between carriers here. I'm told Alaska has even had some folks bailing out to go to work for Delta and United.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#18 Post by GTF » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:02 am

jd832 wrote:I did the same. I'm an American working and living in Canada. I worked for a regional in the US and then moved to Canada. I worked for a regional airline here in Canada for a couple years then moved on to a bigger airline.

The problem with living in Canada on your Permanent Residency status while commuting out of the country for work is that you will be absent from the country to much. When it is time to renew you PR or apply for citizenship, you will not qualify for it.

An absents is considered a calendar day. So if you left today at noon and came back sometime tomorrow, you where technically present both days and this wouldn't count as an absents. But if you came back the day after tomorrow then it is an absents. It would be difficult for you to meet the minimum residency obligation while on multi day pairing while in the U.S.

Minimum residency obligations:

You must meet the residency obligation to get a PR Card.

If you have been a permanent resident for five (5) years or more:

You must have been physically present in Canada for a minimum of 730 days within the past five (5) years.

If you have been a permanent resident for less than five (5) years:

You must show that you will be able to meet the minimum of 730 days of physical presence in Canada within five (5) years of the date you became a permanent resident.

If you really want to live here, I would suggest you convert your FAA ATP to a TC ATPL and get a job up here as soon as you convert you ATP.

Once you're a Canadian Citizen then you can live here and work where ever you want. I learned this the hard way.
I too have learned this the hard way. I lost my permanent resident status for this once already, and just got it back... about $1500 later.
I'll have to be careful and keep track of it, but I don't see it being a problem for a few reasons. First, as you said, if I'm on a four day trip, the first and last day are covered. Second, most people here bid to avoid Canada layovers. Most of them don't like dealing with customs, or they don't want to spend the night in Calgary or Edmonton in the middle of winter.

It might be problematic at a different carrier, however if I stay at Horizon, I doubt I would have any problem stacking my schedule with overnights in Canada to help with my PR status. We overnight in YYJ, YLW, YYC, and YEG. Used to also overnight at YVR, but I think SkyWest is doing those now. I suppose simply landing at a Canadian airport could be considered being physically present in Canada as well, even if I don't get off the airplane. Not sure what the lawyers would think about that, but it would be very easy to produce documents proving which days I was in Canada.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#19 Post by altiplano » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:42 am

If the goal is being close to family in YVR, I would strongly suggest looking at living in Bellingham and making a short drive up when you want to visit.

You are so far ahead in the US vs. Canada with all the big ones:
- wages
- taxes
- cost of living

re: wages - Unfortunately what you see online is correct. A 2nd year FO at a US major makes more than a senior 777FO at our largest carrier. A first year Captain on a US legacy narrowbody makes more than a 777 Captain here... unfortunately, in the case of my union, they are weak and allowing moves to depress wages and reduce our leverage because the company says no to any semblance of stability or gains. This in times of economic growth, record share prices, record profits. I have the feeling that American unions/pilots would be telling the corporation to pound sand if it were the case there.

re: taxes - If you do move here you won't double pay taxes, there is a tax treaty, but you will still take a hit... Canadian taxes are significantly higher.

re: cost of living - Vancouver is one of the least affordable cities on the planet. Wherever you go though, even if somewhere with low property prices, everything from gas and groceries to beer and telecom to consumer goods and services will cost more.

I'm in a pretty good job in Canada, I like it, but if US carriers open up the gates or offer Green Cards in the next few years I will apply, give up my pension, and make real bank...

Good luck with your decision.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#20 Post by co-joe » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:58 pm

One problem that is in line with the residency card issue is the provincial health care issue. Some family live in Windsor and have a condo in Florida and have had major restrictions on travel. You have to be in Canada 6 months a year to be able to get free health care, but they seem to consider a weekend at the condo the same as being away for the whole month. Living in Canada crossing to go to work you might have to pay extra to keep your BC health.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#21 Post by GTF » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:33 pm

co-joe wrote:One problem that is in line with the residency card issue is the provincial health care issue. Some family live in Windsor and have a condo in Florida and have had major restrictions on travel. You have to be in Canada 6 months a year to be able to get free health care, but they seem to consider a weekend at the condo the same as being away for the whole month. Living in Canada crossing to go to work you might have to pay extra to keep your BC health.
I didn't know that, thanks. I'll have to look into the details. I have insurance through the company here, but I would imagine it won't do me much good up there. We do have some Canadian employees at our stations up there, however I was told by the company that those plans are not available to me as a pilot.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#22 Post by hawker driver » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:10 pm

I have been doing it for over 10 years now.
Living in Canada and working in the US. I am a dual citizen.
I pay all my US taxes first then get a foreign tax credit on my Canadian taxes so after putting some money into a Canadian RRSP it is not much of a tax hit.

I just drive across the boarder to work using my Nexus card.
I work one week on then one week off so the commute is not that bad.
My drive from home to DTW is 50 minutes including customs.

The dollar exchange is a nice bonus.
I fly for one of the fractionals and I am DTW based.
I feel I have the best of both worlds US $ and a Canadian lifestyle and up bringing for my family.

I keep a US address at a UPS store for all of my Company mail.
As for health care OHIP pays for me and my family while in Ontario and I have my family on my US company health insurance in case something happens while we are in the US.

Let me know if you have any other question, it was the best decision that I made for a good quality of life.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#23 Post by DanWEC » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:55 pm

Ah to be a dual citizen. Hawker Driver, you must live near my stomping grounds of Windsor.
I'd love to figure this one out, now how to convince the wife to let me marry a yank.......(Maybe the deep south, isn't that allowed there or does it have to by my cousin?)
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#24 Post by hawker driver » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:12 pm

DanWEC wrote:Ah to be a dual citizen. Hawker Driver, you must live near my stomping grounds of Windsor.
I'd love to figure this one out, now how to convince the wife to let me marry a yank.......(Maybe the deep south, isn't that allowed there or does it have to by my cousin?)
Not too far from you just 20 minutes east on EC Row.
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Re: Anybody commuting to a US carrier?

#25 Post by DanWEC » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:18 pm

BR? :)
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