Pilot in Waiting.

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'97 Tercel
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#26 Post by '97 Tercel » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:30 pm

AH6-Overwatch wrote:"I would have loved to fly a DC3 along with Twin Otter, Beaver and some kind of King Air. If I would have gotten into aviation younger than I did I would have stayed flying in remote Canada a lot longer." :roll:

Northern Ontario is not remote Canada bud. And flying on gravel strips doesn't make you a bush pilot. Just saying.
:roll:
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#27 Post by Black_Tusk » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:29 pm

AH6-Overwatch wrote:"I would have loved to fly a DC3 along with Twin Otter, Beaver and some kind of King Air. If I would have gotten into aviation younger than I did I would have stayed flying in remote Canada a lot longer." :roll:

Northern Ontario is not remote Canada bud. And flying on gravel strips doesn't make you a bush pilot. Just saying.

Where did I say bush pilot? And yeah, Northern Ontario is pretty remote.

Why didn't you quote me properly, or was it just a jab hoping I wouldn't see?
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#28 Post by Cat Driver » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:28 pm

Well, remote is probably a description that will vary from person to person based on how far they have been from Toronto, but for sure Northern Ontario does have some places that can be described as deplorable such as Attawapiskat.

So flying in that area is a real experience that will give you a new outlook on just how your Government really works.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#29 Post by Black_Tusk » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:51 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Well, remote is probably a description that will vary from person to person based on how far they have been from Toronto, but for sure Northern Ontario does have some places that can be described as deplorable such as Attawapiskat.

So flying in that area is a real experience that will give you a new outlook on just how your Government really works.
Isn't that the truth. While I haven't been to Attawapiskat, I've been to numerous other reserves as far as Fort Severn and it's quite shocking the conditions our government allows Canadians to live in. Now that can start the whole debate as to weather they should even be up there in the first place, and how money should be spent but that still doesn't mean it's OK for a 5 year old to be sleeping on a dirt floor of a one bedroom shack with 12 other people in nothing but shorts, and roam the streets alone during the day.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#30 Post by Cat Driver » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:40 pm

It has been like that since I flew up there in the late fifties and it will not change in our lifetimes because those conditions support a massive government bureaucracy that costs us Billions a year to support the maggots that feed inside the bureaucracy.

The best way to get changes is to give every bureaucrat in the Department of Indian Affairs and all the Chiefs a choice.

Move to the reserve of your choice and stay there until the conditions are like the rest of Canada or you are out of work.

That would start the process.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#31 Post by HansDietrich » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:28 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Well, remote is probably a description that will vary from person to person based on how far they have been from Toronto, but for sure Northern Ontario does have some places that can be described as deplorable such as Attawapiskat.

So flying in that area is a real experience that will give you a new outlook on just how your Government really works.
Amen brother!
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#32 Post by Cat Driver » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:38 pm

Canada is what South Africa used to be.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#33 Post by Cheftony » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:26 am

Any idea of how long people are waiting in Yellowknife these days ? With the current market I hope nobody's waiting 1 1/2 - 2 years anymore...
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#34 Post by flyingcanuck » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:25 am

Cheftony wrote:Any idea of how long people are waiting in Yellowknife these days ? With the current market I hope nobody's waiting 1 1/2 - 2 years anymore...
Sadly I know people who went up there and are still on the ramp 1.5 yrs later..
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#35 Post by Rightseatdriver » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:33 am

Another ad for this pilot in waiting crap. Especially with this day and age, I truly hope that people aren't actually still wasting away their lives doing this. Also what's with So many requirements just to be a rampie for 2 years
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#36 Post by Cat Driver » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:13 am

As a former owner of several aviation companies I would like to point out the owner of a company only owes a pilot for what that pilot can produce not what they think they can produce.

If you can make money for the company you will not have to worry to much about a job.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#37 Post by rookiepilot » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:41 pm

Cat Driver wrote:

If you can make money for the company you will not have to worry to much about a job.
Such a simple principle.

And so hard to understand. :roll:
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#38 Post by Cat Driver » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:04 pm

If they are not taught values and responsibility when they are young you get a society of people who are entitled and are taught that they are owed anything they want.

The concept of work for pay is beyond their comprehension.

I am sure happy I do not have to run a business in today's world of the entitled.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#39 Post by rookiepilot » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:32 pm

Cat Driver wrote:If they are not taught values and responsibility when they are young you get a society of people who are entitled and are taught that they are owed anything they want.

The concept of work for pay is beyond their comprehension.

I am sure happy I do not have to run a business in today's world of the entitled.
:prayer:

I have a question I'd love an answer to:

How many who've progressed to their CPL, in the last 5 years or so, have done it without any help from the bank of Mom and Dad?

Those (very few I'd imagine) who answer in the affirmative.....kudos.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#40 Post by Diadem » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:10 pm

Cat Driver wrote:If they are not taught values and responsibility when they are young you get a society of people who are entitled and are taught that they are owed anything they want.

The concept of work for pay is beyond their comprehension.

I am sure happy I do not have to run a business in today's world of the entitled.
What? This makes absolutely no sense. They're entitled, and think they deserve everything, but they work for free? If they're entitled then they should be expecting to get paid lots to fly big fancy airplanes, and not sell themselves short by accepting a ramp job. Haven't you been harping on for years about how pilots shouldn't accept anything but flying jobs, and anyone who works the ramp is wasting their license? Now that's actually possible, with fresh CPLs going straight into cockpits, and that makes them lazy? This loathing of anyone younger than you is really getting tiresome.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#41 Post by digits_ » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:28 pm

Diadem wrote:Haven't you been harping on for years about how pilots shouldn't accept anything but flying jobs, and anyone who works the ramp is wasting their license? Now that's actually possible, with fresh CPLs going straight into cockpits, and that makes them lazy? This loathing of anyone younger than you is really getting tiresome.
Shush... you are looking for logic where there is none :wink:
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#42 Post by goingnowherefast » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:33 pm

Diadem wrote:
Cat Driver wrote:If they are not taught values and responsibility when they are young you get a society of people who are entitled and are taught that they are owed anything they want.

The concept of work for pay is beyond their comprehension.

I am sure happy I do not have to run a business in today's world of the entitled.
What? This makes absolutely no sense. They're entitled, and think they deserve everything, but they work for free? If they're entitled then they should be expecting to get paid lots to fly big fancy airplanes, and not sell themselves short by accepting a ramp job. Haven't you been harping on for years about how pilots shouldn't accept anything but flying jobs, and anyone who works the ramp is wasting their license? Now that's actually possible, with fresh CPLs going straight into cockpits, and that makes them lazy? This loathing of anyone younger than you is really getting tiresome.
Finally, somebody calling Cat out on his crap. Rampies are allowed to line up to fly a DC-3. Flying anything from this century, you get to be called entitled if you are flying it, and a waste of a license if you are a "pilot in waiting". Let's everybody just get off this old-timer's lawn, he's starting to look like an old troll.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#43 Post by Zaibatsu » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:12 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
Cat Driver wrote:If they are not taught values and responsibility when they are young you get a society of people who are entitled and are taught that they are owed anything they want.

The concept of work for pay is beyond their comprehension.

I am sure happy I do not have to run a business in today's world of the entitled.
:prayer:

I have a question I'd love an answer to:

How many who've progressed to their CPL, in the last 5 years or so, have done it without any help from the bank of Mom and Dad?

Those (very few I'd imagine) who answer in the affirmative.....kudos.
Who the @#$! cares? Maybe the fact that the upcoming generation is the first one to be paid less to do more has something to do with it. Go look at real wages vs cost of living. Go look at the wage rollbacks and B C or D scales at the airlines.

Sorry, I couldn't drop out of high school and get a union job to pay for my training like members of a previous generation could. That is, if they were actually inclined to do so instead of just buying a house on that job and pissing their money away on six packs and lottery tickets(for real, the lottos are facing shortfalls because millenials aren't buying tickets) and being so lazy and entitled that most of those jobs were exported to China.

Or get their pilots license paid for by the government. No sh**, get your license signed off, get a cheque for it.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#44 Post by Cat Driver » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:48 am

Let's everybody just get off this old-timer's lawn, he's starting to look like an old troll.

Yeh, that is what I must be. :smt040

Except for one little fact I also have experienced both the older days of aviation as well as the modern days of aviation.

Granted I have been out of commercial aviation since 2005 and newer technology has been introduced into the airline field of aircraft, my last training and employment was with Airbus Industries in Toulouse France at the factory where they design and build their aircraft.

As to working for Joe on the ramp to maybe get to fly his airplanes I have never experienced that but I do know him quite well from our business deals over the years.

I personally found him to be a very fair and knowledgeable person.

Anyhow goingnowherefast " modern aviation " is subjective and in most cases based on individual experience.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#45 Post by Rightseatdriver » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:22 pm

It's one thing to work the ramp for a year or 2 then get upgraded and "earn it". It's another thing to bust your balls, stay late, come in early, cover everyone else's holiday shifts, literally get shit on by management and clean lavatories because no one else wants to day in and day out for over 2 years without getting anything other than a mediocre pay cheque and "a foot in the door" out of it. I speak for a lot of my friends that have gone through the ramp path to have their dreams of one day getting into that shiny king air, destroyed. Enough with the carrot dangling. It's 2017. The industry is moving at an alarmingly fast rate and to "earn your way" (getting Abused by management) is unnecessary. Happy I never went that route.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#46 Post by Cat Driver » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:17 pm

Are there any companies that hire ramp people that treat their people fairly and give them a flying position in a reasonable time frame?

I ask the question because I really don't know the answer.

As to the pay issue that is driven by supply and demand.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#47 Post by BeaverDreamer » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:05 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Are there any companies that hire ramp people that treat their people fairly and give them a flying position in a reasonable time frame?

I ask the question because I really don't know the answer.

As to the pay issue that is driven by supply and demand.
Depends on your definitions of reasonable and fair. But certainly some are better than others.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#48 Post by propfeather » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:21 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Are there any companies that hire ramp people that treat their people fairly and give them a flying position in a reasonable time frame?

I ask the question because I really don't know the answer.

As to the pay issue that is driven by supply and demand.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#49 Post by Cat Driver » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:51 pm

Depends on your definitions of reasonable and fair.
Well treating them fairly is giving them the assurance they will be able to fly at least enough to stay current and reasonable time wise would be outlined in the hiring agreement.
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

#50 Post by BE20 Driver » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:08 pm

Bacunayagua wrote:Can I also get that offer? I mean, as long as it's not working for Joe in Yellowknife or Frank out of Pickle.
I just flew with a guy who worked for Frank. He had a ton of good things to say about him. Since it ran contradictory to what I had heard in the past, I spend 5 days asking him about it. He had some great stories and I felt that he was genuine that skyward was a good place and he was treated fairly.

Come to think of it, I also flew with a guy who used to work for Joe. Slightly different stories but he also liked the work and the planes and he had thought about going back to work for him.

Common thread about both of those people was that if you worked hard, the boss would bend over backward for you. If you were an entitled millennial who was only there to put in the minimum effort required, well you probably got what you deserved.

One of the companies I used to work at recently put feelers out for a pilot in waiting type of job. It was the best company I ever worked at. Management there are some of the best people I've worked for. The wait to get into an airplane isn't very long at all and if you show some initiative, it's even shorter. spend your whole shift hiding in the dark corners of the hanger and guess what, you'll spend 1.5 years working the ramp.

The point I'm trying to make is that everyone starts somewhere. No matter what job you have, be the best whatever you can be. Unless I'm mistaken, there are no direct entry 777 captain postings. The only thing that will get you one of those is hard work. It's usually worth it.
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