Pilot Seniority Porting

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bobcaygeon
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Bearskin Pilots will now accrue seniority at Jazz while flying for "the Bear"

#1 Post by bobcaygeon » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:46 am

http://flyjazz.mediaroom.com/index.php? ... tem=122663

Jazz Introduces Pilot Seniority Portability Concept to Canadian Aviation Industry

Sep 7, 2017

Jazz signs landmark agreement with its pilot union, Air Line Pilots Association, Intl.
HALIFAX, Sept. 7, 2017 /CNW/ - Jazz Aviation LP ("Jazz") is pleased to announce that it has signed a landmark agreement with the Air Line Pilots Association, Intl ("ALPA"). This industry leading agreement introduces the concept of seniority portability for pilots wishing to transition to Jazz from Thunder Bay, Ontario-based Bearskin Lake Air Service LP ("Bearskin") and Wasaya Airways LP ("Wasaya").

"Jazz continues to be a leader in recruiting programs and we are pleased to enhance our relationships with Bearskin Airlines and Wasaya Airways," said Steve Linthwaite, Vice President, Flight Operations, Jazz. "This agreement is an industry first and Jazz is proud to continue our focus on the pilot profession in Canada through innovative programs like this."

Through this industry-leading agreement, pilots at Bearskin Airlines and Wasaya Airways will begin to accrue portable seniority as of October 11, 2017 allowing them to port their seniority from pilot positions at these carriers to pilot positions at Jazz.

Qualified candidates from Bearskin Airlines and Wasaya Airways looking to transition to pilot positions at Jazz will be required to meet the same hiring, interview and regulatory standards, and must also successfully complete the same ground school and Transport Canada Pilot Proficiency Check, as all other new hire pilots at Jazz.

Through agreements with 10 colleges and universities, and four industry organizations including Bearskin and Wasaya, the Jazz APP program provides yet another pilot career pathway innovation with this latest agreement.

"We are pleased to reach an agreement with the company that will protect all ALPA pilots at Bearskin and Wasaya who wish to come to Jazz in the future," said Jazz Master Executive Council Chairman, Captain Claude Buraglia.

Jazz, Bearskin and Wasaya recognize and appreciate the involvement, proactive approach and commitment of the Air Line Pilots Association, Intl – especially all Master Executive Council representatives – regarding discussions on ALPA seniority and provisions affecting the Jazz, Bearskin and Wasaya flight teams.

About the Jazz APP

Since 2007 Jazz has been actively involved in shaping the curriculum and training of Canada's future professional pilots through active engagement with aviation college and universities. In 2015, Jazz rebranded these efforts under the Jazz Aviation Pathway Program banner. To date, Jazz has announced agreements between the Jazz APP and the following institutions and organizations:

Aviation Colleges and Universities
Algonquin College
Centre québécois de formation aéronautique at Cégep de Chicoutimi
Conestoga College Institute of Technology and Advanced Learning
Confederation College
Mount Royal University
Okanagan College
Sault College
Seneca College
University of Waterloo
University of Western Ontario

Industry Organization Agreements exist with:
Air Cadet League of Canada
Air Canada
Bearskin Airlines
Wasaya Airways

About Jazz Aviation LP – A Chorus Aviation Inc. company

Jazz Aviation LP has a strong history in Canadian aviation with its roots going back to the 1930s. Jazz is owned by Chorus Aviation Inc. (TSX: CHR). As the largest regional carrier in Canada, Jazz has a proven track record of industry leadership and exceptional customer service, and has leveraged that strength to deliver value to all its stakeholders. Jazz operates more flights and flies to more Canadian destinations than any other airline, and has a workforce of approximately 4500 professionals, highly experienced in the challenging and complex nature of regional operations.

There are three divisions operated by Jazz Aviation LP: Air Canada Express, Jazz Technical Services and Jazz.

Air Canada Express: Under a capacity purchase agreement with Air Canada, using the Air Canada Express brand, Jazz provides service to and from lower-density markets as well as higher-density markets at off-peak times throughout North America, with a fleet of 117 Canadian-made Bombardier aircraft.

Jazz Technical Services: Established in May 2016 as a separate division, Jazz Technical Services ('JTS') is dedicated to heavy maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) of Bombardier aircraft. JTS provides MRO services to third parties while maintaining the dedication and commitment to its primary customer, Air Canada.

Jazz: Under the Jazz brand, the airline offers charters throughout North America with a dedicated fleet of Bombardier aircraft for corporate clients, governments, special interest groups and individuals seeking more convenience. Jazz also has the ability to offer airline operators services such as ground handling, dispatching, flight load planning, training and consulting.

For more information, visit http://www.flyjazz.ca/pathwaysprogram.

About ALPA

Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world's largest pilot union, representing more than 57,000 pilots at 33 airlines in the United States and Canada. The Jazz Master Executive Council of the Air Line Pilots Association, Intl. represents a total of 1400 Jazz pilots. Visit the ALPA website at http://www.alpa.org or follow us on Twitter @WeAreALPA.



SOURCE Chorus Aviation Inc.

For further information: Jazz Aviation LP: Teri Udle, Manager, Corporate Communications and Brand Management, (902) 873-5047, Halifax, NS, teri.udle@flyjazz.ca; ALPA: Katy Adams, Senior Communications Specialist, 703-481-4430 or 561-385-3098, Katy.Adams@alpa.org
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Re: Bearskin Pilots will now accrue seniority at Jazz while flying for "the Bear"

#2 Post by Sharklasers » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:11 am

What could go wrong when a 1000 hour pilot who's never flown out of the north, in major centres or in a 705 machine can flow over in 2 years and immediately hold CRJ900 or Q400 Captain in Vancouver.
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Re: Bearskin Pilots will now accrue seniority at Jazz while flying for "the Bear"

#3 Post by iflyroads » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:25 am

Will this set the stage for the encore guys unionizing under ALPA and still maintaining the one list senority ?
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Re: Bearskin Pilots will now accrue seniority at Jazz while flying for "the Bear"

#4 Post by Kosiw » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:28 am

Anything to keep the recruits coming and the wages low.
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Re: Bearskin Pilots will now accrue seniority at Jazz while flying for "the Bear"

#5 Post by co-joe » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:29 am

iflyroads wrote:Will this set the stage for the encore guys unionizing under ALPA and still maintaining the one list senority ?
Is anyone else here surprised that this hasn't happened yet? I thought it would have been an overnight thing after mainline ratified their deal.
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Re: Bearskin Pilots will now accrue seniority at Jazz while flying for "the Bear"

#6 Post by Donald » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:41 am

So basically if you start at Bearskin or Wasaya, you are immediately building seniority at AC under the PML as well?

If so, it's brilliant.
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Re: Bearskin Pilots will now accrue seniority at Jazz while flying for "the Bear"

#7 Post by indieadventurer » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:47 am

Donald wrote:So basically if you start at Bearskin or Wasaya, you are immediately building seniority at AC under the PML as well?

If so, it's brilliant.
You don't carry seniority over to AC as a PML pilot.
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Re: Bearskin Pilots will now accrue seniority at Jazz while flying for "the Bear"

#8 Post by bobcaygeon » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:41 pm

Sharklasers wrote:What could go wrong when a 1000 hour pilot who's never flown out of the north, in major centres or in a 705 machine can flow over in 2 years and immediately hold CRJ900 or Q400 Captain in Vancouver.
In theory it could happen....but so could direct entry captain happen at Jazz very soon as well.

Can't be much more dangerous then letting a highly experienced D8 crew do an approach to minimums in YYB and go off the end of a 10,000 ft runway...

I'm guessing that when the results from the latest equipment bid come out the most junior captain won't have been at Jazz very long.

It's all about the training.
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Re: Bearskin Pilots will now accrue seniority at Jazz while flying for "the Bear"

#9 Post by goingnowherefast » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:48 pm

When does your seniority at Jazz start? When you get hired at Bearskin/Wasaya, or is it once Jazz decides to hire you?
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Pilot Seniority Porting

#10 Post by BingBong » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:41 pm

HALIFAX, Sept. 7, 2017 /CNW/ - Jazz Aviation LP ("Jazz") is pleased to announce that it has signed a landmark agreement with the Air Line Pilots Association, Intl ("ALPA"). This industry leading agreement introduces the concept of seniority portability for pilots wishing to transition to Jazz from Thunder Bay, Ontario-based Bearskin Lake Air Service LP ("Bearskin") and Wasaya Airways LP ("Wasaya").

"Jazz continues to be a leader in recruiting programs and we are pleased to enhance our relationships with Bearskin Airlines and Wasaya Airways," said Steve Linthwaite, Vice President, Flight Operations, Jazz. "This agreement is an industry first and Jazz is proud to continue our focus on the pilot profession in Canada through innovative programs like this."

Through this industry-leading agreement, pilots at Bearskin Airlines and Wasaya Airways will begin to accrue portable seniority as of October 11, 2017 allowing them to port their seniority from pilot positions at these carriers to pilot positions at Jazz.

Qualified candidates from Bearskin Airlines and Wasaya Airways looking to transition to pilot positions at Jazz will be required to meet the same hiring, interview and regulatory standards, and must also successfully complete the same ground school and Transport Canada Pilot Proficiency Check, as all other new hire pilots at Jazz.

Through agreements with 10 colleges and universities, and four industry organizations including Bearskin and Wasaya, the Jazz APP program provides yet another pilot career pathway innovation with this latest agreement.

"We are pleased to reach an agreement with the company that will protect all ALPA pilots at Bearskin and Wasaya who wish to come to Jazz in the future," said Jazz Master Executive Council Chairman, Captain Claude Buraglia.

Jazz, Bearskin and Wasaya recognize and appreciate the involvement, proactive approach and commitment of the Air Line Pilots Association, Intl – especially all Master Executive Council representatives – regarding discussions on ALPA seniority and provisions affecting the Jazz, Bearskin and Wasaya flight teams.
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#11 Post by BingBong » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:01 pm

Congrats to JAZ MEC for circumventing the current seniority process at jazz. I feel for the folks who will be bypassed on upgrades from pilots yet to be on property
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#12 Post by Inverted2 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:31 pm

It says they can begin to accrue seniority starting Oct 11 so I don't think it means a 15 year Bearskin pilot can come over to Jazz next month with 15 years seniority.
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#13 Post by BE20 Driver » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:38 pm

Do you keep years of service or years in seat for the purposes of pay? ie will a 7 year bearskin pilot be able to go to Jazz and get a captain seat at year 7 pay or does this just bump up seniority in terms of what base, aircraft and seat you can hold?
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#14 Post by skypirate88 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:46 pm

It appears they can port seniority for bidding equipment, schedule and vacation. The LOU doesn't say that they can count YOS toward pay.

I hope we got something big in return for this. It seems pretty one sided to me.
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#15 Post by mmm..bacon » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:51 pm

The way I read it, is a pilot at Jazz who is hired at Jazz on Oct 13 will be forever junior to a Bearskin pilot hired at Bearskin on Oct 12, once that BS pilot 'flows' over to Jazz. So, could you sit at BS for 5 years, go to JZ, and immediately go LHS, assuming that your 'DOH' can hold that? I'd imagine that you'd have to sit in the right until your number came up for an upgrade, and then you'd be senior for bidding purposes to the pilot hired at JZ the day after you..

Looks like OTS new hires just got tossed under the bus, though.
Makes sense for BS and Wasaya, too - they might not have as many difficulties crewing as they might otherwise have.
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#16 Post by Tail-Chaser » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:26 pm

Can someone explain to me how this is fair to anybody at Jazz? Are you seriously telling me that someone hired at Bearskin can basically walk into a left seat after spending a couple years at a completely different company, jumping over someone who has actually been working at Jazz for several years?
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#17 Post by prop2jet » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:30 pm

This LOU from what I can see is to provide a means to secure a source of experienced Pilots. All of the Regional's are faced with the same dilemma. Jazz would like nothing more than to move those who currently sit at the top of the pay scale off the list and somewhere else. This was accomplished in part with PML V.1 however there are still many remaining. Improvements to early retirement packages might be an answer however Jazz is really not in a position at this time to lose anyone.

The simple solution to attracting candidates to Jazz would be eliminating the B scale pay structure or some other significant monetary improvement. Not likely for the time being. Making deals that cost the Company nothing is in their best interest and perhaps from the forward thinkers on the union side acceptable if it ultimately leads to this becoming a trend that becomes more widespread... though that would be years away.

I doubt that many who come to Jazz today do so with the intent of making this a place to stay long term. The enticement to come to Jazz is to have a shot at a mainline interview. However I caution those who think this is a viable entry to AC. For now it is nothing more than an enhanced lottery and so far I have seen quite a few good candidates turned down on PML 2 as well as some OTS. The solution here would be a direct flow to AC (similar to Encore to WJ) but for now that is not the case. So for those that are looking to come to Jazz you might want to have a plan in place if the desired goal was AC and you end up with a PFO.
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#18 Post by co-joe » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:31 pm

Maybe we should rethink our career progressions. So if you could get a DEC job at the Bear or Wasaya untill you can hold a left seat at Jazz, why go RS at Jazz at all?

Second question, is that if someone starts at Jazz on Oct 13th does that mean there are automatically 100 odd pilots ahead of them in seniority automatically for the rest of their time at Jazz?
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#19 Post by prop2jet » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:44 pm

Tail-Chaser wrote:Can someone explain to me how this is fair to anybody at Jazz? Are you seriously telling me that someone hired at Bearskin can basically walk into a left seat after spending a couple years at a completely different company, jumping over someone who has actually been working at Jazz for several years?
Technically it may not be fair to anyone hired after Oct 11 and not from the listed companies that could very well grow. And that is perhaps something to keep in mind. As I stated earlier, I do not think that there is a long list of candidates that are seeking to come to Jazz as a long term career. If the objective is to go to AC then the sooner they are on the property the sooner they can apply on a PML and perhaps be lucky enough to get hired and move on to AC long before a Bearskin pilot even shows up. Incidentally that Bearskin pilot cannot apply to the PML until they are at Jazz.
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#20 Post by dhc# » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:45 pm

This may backfire on Jazz management and future hiring, OTS will come to a grinding halt, who wants to go to Jazz knowing an outsider will jump you for future upgrades etc...this will cost any new OTS $$$ down the road....
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#21 Post by daedalusx » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:56 pm

The MEC is a disgrace and it's not the first time they've stabbed the newcomers in the back (ie: the 30% pay raise increase proposal).

With a 'brotherhood' like this why even bother with organized labour ? Get me my unions dues back and I'll fight my own wars thank you.
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#22 Post by daedalusx » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:06 pm

Also we have a lot to learn from our brothers in the states.

Get a law that a 705 airliner FO requires a valid ATPL and 1500 hrs, 1000 multi, and you'll see that the pilot market will correct itself. In the USA it went from cut throat corporatism with E175 drivers making less than 20k a year and then Colgan Q4 buffalo happened and then some people realized the cost of unregulated airline industry. Now the regionals have real flow throw, sign in bonus, retention bonuses - huge pay increase from what it was. If it becomes attractive to become a pilot again then maybe the kids will want to get in aviation again...

That being said, there is a huge lobbying effort down south to remove that bill because of so-called pilot shortage.
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#23 Post by prop2jet » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:12 pm

daedalusx wrote:The MEC is a disgrace and it's not the first time they've stabbed the newcomers in the back (ie: the 30% pay raise increase proposal).

With a 'brotherhood' like this why even bother with organized labour ? Get me my unions dues back and I'll fight my own wars thank you.
The newcomers did not have to come to Jazz. In fact if everyone just stayed away and did not apply maybe something would have been done. If you do not like the direction the MEC is taking then rather than state your discontent here you should direct it to the JAZ MEC, that is if in fact you are at Jazz. If you are at Jazz, then get involved.
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#24 Post by goingnowherefast » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:30 pm

Not sure many high seniority guys at BS/WSG are interested in Jazz, the pay is just too awful, base uncertainty, etc. The only people who will go to Jazz are the 20 year old 1000hr FOs with 8 months seniority. Not really a big advantage.

I guess anything that will boost recruitment is good for the Jazz pilot group. Pilots are currently working too much, and current hiring practices are starting to scrape the bottom of the pilot barrel.
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

#25 Post by co-joe » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:41 pm

Can anybody tell me, How many Bear/Wasaya pilots are there, and how many would benefit from this agreement out of curiosity?

Don't both of those companies have huge bonds?
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