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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:31 pm 
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45 at Bear and 105 at Wasaya, this according to the ALPA mag earlier this year. I would not be overly concered about an exodus to Jazz and someone from elsewhere getting tossed under the bus.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:53 pm 
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The actual details of the agreement are not so dramatic as suggested by the previous page of posts suggesting the sky is falling.

Any Bear or Wasaya pilots who want to have a Jazz seniority date of October 2017 must APPLY to Jazz by November of this year. While they can defer for a bit of time, this isn't set up to allow people not on property 15 years of seniority. At most my guess is that it'd give someone an extra 8 or 9 months seniority at Jazz (maybe just enough to skip RES in YUL or not getting the base they want?). Either way, that initial uncertainty of base/RES is something that dissuades some people from applying, so it's possible that this will get more folks applying to Jazz.

It's also interesting to note the timing is right after Porter announced a YQT base.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:40 pm 
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(On a serious note: I really have no clue what this is all about or what what everyone talking about... Too many changes, too many terms, I need a QRH for all this non-sense.)

Can't I just come to work, "punch-in" and "punch-out"?



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:31 pm 
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Its well known that unions dont do charity so what do they get out of this ??


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:38 pm 
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Nobody really knows. The Jazz MEC isn't very forthcoming of information to its members. We found out about this the same day it was released to joe public.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:35 am 
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I'm guessing the MEC will definitely remind the company come negotiations about their cooperation and proactive stance.

I'm also thinking that it's in the best interest of The MEC for Jazz to be fully staffed and not cancelling Air Canada flights due to a lack of flight crew. They know where their bread is buttered. Pissing off you sole source of revenue doesn't bode well for anyone.

Every Bearskin or Wasaya pilot that goes to Jazz and doesn't go to Encore or Porter is a win.

I'm guessing that this agreement was in the works longer than Porter's announcement but red tape slows things down. Just a coincidence not a reaction.



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:39 am 
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Don't think, Jazz ALPA think ALPA Canada, maybe more pilots will consider joining ALPA if they perceive a benefit.
The only information the MEC is withholding is how negotiations are going, this is not new and frankly as it should be. I'm also getting frustrated with Jazz pilots continually mentioning that the MEC turned down a 30% raise for new hires, it's nothing more than a rumour, there is no way Jazz was going to raise the pay 30%, they are working on other ways to attract pilots without pricing us out of the market, things like this LOU and the focus group.

Also, this is nothing more than a PML for Bear/Wasaya pilots, are we hypocrites now, come to Jazz for a PML to go to AC but god forbid we offer that to other ALPA members!



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:05 am 
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Maybe a reverse seniority port so Jazz pilots with no PIC time and a few thousand hours can go to wasaya and fly a caravan or pc12 to get their ATPl requiremtns then return and thus be eligible for upgrade with some operational experience ie not renting a c152 for 100 hours or doing it ALL through picus.

I realize there would be a knowledge gap to bridge going from dash 8 q 400 or rj ops to a caravan...low n slow, a pig in the ice, new FO etc, not to mention toes being stepped within wasayas ranks...



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:27 am 
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JBI wrote:
most my guess is that it'd give someone an extra 8 or 9 months seniority at Jazz (maybe just enough to skip RES in YUL or not getting the base they want?


Sorry...IMO 8-9 months is 8-9 months. For some that could mean not seeing an upgrade for years given the state of the industry. Mathematically this is low given amount of turnover at all shops but still a disgusting move by "union leaders" to circumvent yet again the current CBA. In its current form Bypass pay would come into play when DEC show up on property...not anymore....8-9 months would mean the difference in spending days off or vacation with your kids over Christmas vs sitting in wabush on reserve.


I guess the new slogan should be .... career contract.....let us know what time is best for you....



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:24 am 
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If we are not happy with our union reps, we should 1: let them know. 2: vote them out!


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:28 am 
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So my question for the MEC would be:

What did the members get for this?

This is obviously good for Wasaya and Bearskin for attracting pilots, good for Jazz to find more pilots, but what does this do for the junior members???

If they just gave this away to the company, I would be asking questions



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:43 am 
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How is this any different than a Jazz pilot on the original PML reserving a seniority number at mainline and deferring their course date till they get a few hundred pilots beneath them at mainline?

At this point if any pilot with enough experience wants to be at Jazz he would have already been at Jazz by now, and if he does not then I doubt a few months of seniority would make a big difference... This is nothing but to keep the stream of future pilots available to Wasaya, the bear and then Jazz and AC when and if the time comes (if the guys/girls who keep pouting about the slow FPML in the crew room everyday want to join the mothership eventually).



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:19 am 
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Supply and demand will force wawcon increases (look at the regional's situation in the States or what happened to Porter recently), but to help the company find ways to perpetuate the flow of new hires at the current low wawcon is puzzling.

Why not use that type of leverage to make gains for your membership.



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:09 pm 
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I see this as a good benefit for the industry. One step closer to industry wide seniority and acknowledgement of years of experience for compensation. Kinda like how real professions are run.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Never going to happen.

Company A goes bankrupt and then its pilots start filtering in above (profitable) Company B's pilots as they get hired. Right.



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:03 pm 
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mbav8r wrote:
I'm also getting frustrated with Jazz pilots continually mentioning that the MEC turned down a 30% raise for new hires, it's nothing more than a rumour!


I cannot agree more!



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:03 pm 
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NewCommercialPilot wrote:
Never going to happen.

Company A goes bankrupt and then its pilots start filtering in above (profitable) Company B's pilots as they get hired. Right.


What would be wrong with that? Just staying with one company for 10 years is not really an accomplishment in itself. That whole seniority thing doesn't reward enthousiasm, motivation or hard work. Just do the bare minimum not to get fired and you'll be set for life. Yay!



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:07 pm 
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I think the biggest advantage is for Bearskin and Wasaya. Their FOs won't be in such a hurry to jump out on their bonds. They can stay a 1900 FO at Wasaya, making more money, then go to Jazz, with seniority, once their bond is up.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:05 pm 
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groundpilot wrote:
So my question for the MEC would be:

What did the members get for this?

This is obviously good for Wasaya and Bearskin for attracting pilots, good for Jazz to find more pilots, but what does this do for the junior members???

If they just gave this away to the company, I would be asking questions


As someone said above, anything that helps Jazz find pilots and not have to cancel flights is good for the company and the employees



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