Jazz Hatters

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rigpiggy
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by rigpiggy »

According to Georgian"you cant wear a beard because the oil from your face might catch on fire". Okay does that preclude the ladies from wearing lipstick? " crickets chirping". Back when I was there we had an engineer who savaged there "logic". He still had to shave.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by goingnowherefast »

ahramin wrote:Is there a single recorded case of a pilot becoming unconscious because of a beard?
No, because people haven't been allowed beards until now.

Does anybody really expect an oxygen mask to fit properly over a duck dynasty beard?
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skypirate88
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by skypirate88 »

We aren't allowed a duck dynasty beard. Max length is 1/2 inch. Many airlines allow beards, I don't really see what the big deal is...
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Dockjock
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by Dockjock »

The beard thing will pass when people realize they no longer look unique. I don't think it's a safety issue, it's more of a LOOK AT ME issue. Saw one guy with a baby little Salvador Dali mustache, clearly quite pleased with himself. Uh, no bud. Skulk away in shame you look ridiculous.
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by Beefitarian »

Is there a single recorded case of a pilot becoming unconscious because of a beard?
Doubt it. Has anyone here even used one? It's not like firemen who need them to protect themselves from poisonous fumes and smoke. Planes are pretty safe these days.
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iamnomaverick
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by iamnomaverick »

[quote="HansDietrich"

Best answer yet (I heard it in the Lounge at YYZ between two Jazz pilots):
- Where's your hat?
- At home.
- You gotta wear your hat... It's part of being professional
- When they start paying me "professionally", I'll start wearing my "professional hat"

***Edit for spelling***[/quote]

Had that FO been my FO there would have been an akward pause then me calling Crew Scheduling and the OCM to get a new FO... It is not about the hat cause I couldn't give a damn about why he does not want to wear his hat but I would be concerned about what else he doesn't think he doesn't get paid "professionally" to do ("gear down please", "They don't pay me professionally to do that"). Was it "profesisonal" of him to accept a job knowing that he doesn't agree on the pay? Is that person following SOPs and AOM or is he not getting paid enough to do that? Is he practicing his drills and refreshing his emergency procedures or does he think that he doesn't get paid enough to maybe have to save his own ass if it comes to it?

People complain everyday about every single thing pay/uniform/crew snacks/crew scheduling/parking. Guess what? Some of us actually like our jobs and want to enjoy ourselves while we do it! If you don't like something tell your union rep and do what the company asked of you when you got hired or just do us all a favor and QUIT!

-You don't like that pay? Tell you rep or vote with your feet.
-You don't like the uniform? Tell you rep and if it is a health concern then I am sure no one will blame you for not complying while they work on a solution.
-You don't like the crew snack? IT IS FREE! Leave it and one of the other crew members may want it.
-Crew scheduling ? Go wear their shoes for a week and see how you like putting out fires 24/7 and get no thanks in return.
-Parking? What is wrong with a short 15 min walk before you park your behind for the next 10-14 hours?

Is this place perfect? NO! But it still is a good place to work and we can make it better. Either accept it, be part of the solution by contacting your union or becoming part of it or walk to what maybe a greener pasture for you. but for heavens sake don't complain to me about your 50% paycut to come here, no one forced you to come here and no one is forcing you to stay now!
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Last edited by iamnomaverick on Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oxi
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by Oxi »

But what about the placement of the garbage bag in the cockpit?
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Liftdump
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by Liftdump »

Had you have got rid of YOUR FO over a hat.
Had I been a paying passenger on YOUR PLANE.
Now listen to how STUPID you sound.
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iamnomaverick
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by iamnomaverick »

Liftdump wrote:Had you have got rid of YOUR FO over a hat.
Had I been a paying passenger on YOUR PLANE.
Now listen to how STUPID you sound.
No not over a hat, sounds like you have a reading problem though cause I clearly said " I couldn't give a damn about why he does not want to wear his hat". If you don't want to wear the hat at least come up with a proper excuse, not that you are not being paid "professionally" to wear a hat. Now that is stupid.

EDIT:
Also would you be willing to get on a plane were one of the pilots doesn't think he/she should do their job to a professional level?? In this profession we play for keeps. We have people trusting us with their lives so if you think you are not being paid as a professional I suggest you change companies/careers and go get what you think you are worth.
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Air.Field
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by Air.Field »

I think most FOs feel they aren't being paid professionally, and that would be correct. Does that mean you're not going to fly with any FO? Does that mean they don't take flying the plane professionally? Especially over a hat? Have you seen anyone fly unprofessionally? Or refuse to put the gear down? I think you are obviously reaching for something that is not there.
If you think the guy next to you deserves to get paid 36k a year, that's your opinion, easy to think that when you comfortably make over 100k more. The majority think it's too low, again everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's great you love your job, but the job isn't for everyone. For most now a days it's the stepping stone to AC. If someone wants to be non compliant with uniform, sop or whatever, then talk to them, if no response send the CP a email and let mgmt deal with it. But to think anyone at Jazz is unprofessional... I certainly haven't seen it, and would fly on a Jazz crewed plane any day.
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HansDietrich
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by HansDietrich »

IamnoMaverick:

That's pretty arrogant of you sir. First of all, it was a CAPTAIN that said that, not an F/O. Most First Officers I know at Jazz love the uniform and finally "looking the part".
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iamnomaverick
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by iamnomaverick »

Air.Field wrote:I think most FOs feel they aren't being paid professionally, and that would be correct. Does that mean they don't take flying the plane professionally? Especially over a hat? Have you seen anyone fly unprofessionally? Or refuse to put the gear down? I think you are obviously reaching for something that is not there.
If you think the guy next to you deserves to get paid 36k a year, that's your opinion, easy to think that when you comfortably make over 100k more. The majority think it's too low, again everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's great you love your job, but the job isn't for everyone. For most now a days it's the stepping stone to AC. If someone wants to be non compliant with uniform, sop or whatever, then talk to them, if no response send the CP a email and let mgmt deal with it. But to think anyone at Jazz is unprofessional... I certainly haven't seen it, and would fly on a Jazz crewed plane any day.
I have never encountered an occasion were I thought the guy next to me was unprofessional nor do I think people who don't want to wear their hats are unprofessional. My comments was in reply to the fact that someone thinks they shouldn't have to wear their hat because they don't get paid enough to do it. The gear scenario was clearly hypothetical but it was to demonstrate a point that just because you don't think you get paid enough doesn't mean you shouldn't do your job. Did you interview for the job and were told how much they will be earning? if not, Did youask before accepting that Letter of Offer?

I don't think I have ever asked anyone about their hat or why they are not wearing it, I am not the hat police, nor do I think it makes a difference when it comes to operating an airplane... My problem was with the litter of the response "When they pay me "professionally" I will wear a professional hat".
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iamnomaverick
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by iamnomaverick »

HansDietrich wrote:IamnoMaverick:

That's pretty arrogant of you sir. First of all, it was a CAPTAIN that said that, not an F/O. Most First Officers I know at Jazz love the uniform and finally "looking the part".
I don't agree at all. perhaps you should have clarified cause I have never encountered or seen an instants were the FO was questioning their captain about their hat so I call BS on your entire story... So you are saying Captains at Jazz are not being paid professionally now?

From all your previous posts I understand that you are butt hurt over flying the classic but really that is no reason to sewer your co-workers or the company that puts food on the table.
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PostmasterGeneral
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

Exactly as Hans pointed out, probably 90% of the guys I know that take issue with the new uniform or the hat are senior captains. Junior captains, and FO's, generally tend to wear the entire uniform and wear is nicely. There are some old guys who still wear the old uniform because "when the company gives me pants with pockets, I'll wear them."

What kind of example are you setting for the new guys? That it's ok to wear whatever you want and shave sometimes? And in my experience, it's been those captains who preach professionalism, that never practice it, and do things way outside the SOP's because "that's how I've always done it." One guy in particular had absolutely no idea what calls to make in a go around ffs! And he's been at Jazz for over a decade!

But hey, preach to others who may leave the hat on the hook when they run in to grab a coffee.

For the record, I wear my uniform with pride.
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iamnomaverick
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by iamnomaverick »

PostmasterGeneral wrote:Exactly as Hans pointed out, probably 90% of the guys I know that take issue with the new uniform or the hat are senior captains. Junior captains, and FO's, generally tend to wear the entire uniform and wear is nicely. There are some old guys who still wear the old uniform because "when the company gives me pants with pockets, I'll wear them."

What kind of example are you setting for the new guys? That it's ok to wear whatever you want and shave sometimes? And in my experience, it's been those captains who preach professionalism, that never practice it, and do things way outside the SOP's because "that's how I've always done it." One guy in particular had absolutely no idea what calls to make in a go around ffs! And he's been at Jazz for over a decade!

But hey, preach to others who may leave the hat on the hook when they run in to grab a coffee.

For the record, I wear my uniform with pride.
I am glad you do wear it with pride and so do most people including myself. Not sure if your comments were directed at me.
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HansDietrich
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by HansDietrich »

iamnomaverick wrote:
HansDietrich wrote:IamnoMaverick:

That's pretty arrogant of you sir. First of all, it was a CAPTAIN that said that, not an F/O. Most First Officers I know at Jazz love the uniform and finally "looking the part".
I don't agree at all. perhaps you should have clarified cause I have never encountered or seen an instants were the FO was questioning their captain about their hat so I call BS on your entire story... So you are saying Captains at Jazz are not being paid professionally now?

From all your previous posts I understand that you are butt hurt over flying the classic but really that is no reason to sewer your co-workers or the company that puts food on the table.

Go back and read my post:
I said: (quote)
"Best answer yet (I heard it in the Lounge at YYZ between two Jazz pilots)..."

It was you which (in your arrogance) automatically assumed it must have been an F/O. It was actually a captain speaking to another captain (probably his friend). You can call "BS" on my story all you want. Among the things I've heard in the crew room:

1. This uniforms sucks
2. This uniform has no pockets
3. I'm not even wearing those retarded pants. I bought my own at Mark's Wearhouse, because they have back pockets.
... and the list goes on.

So what if I'm "butt-hurt" about flying the Classic Dash? I paid my dues in the industry and now I want something more. Is that wrong? Eventually I'll get it. Till, then I'll come to work, wear my uniform (which I actually really really like, no bullshit here, including the hat) and last and most definitely not least:, fly that plane as I'm supposed to do it, by the book (to the best of my ability and knowledge), always strive for something better and offer the best service I can to our customers, because guess what? I am also a customer of AC (and Express)... and my family and my friends are also customers of Air Canada (and Express).

Get off your high horse and come down to the real world, where you'll realize that we're all in this together. Bitching a little here and there on some online forum is not the end of the world.

P.S. When's your time for retirement? (Just curious)
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by Cat Driver »

And in my experience, it's been those captains who preach professionalism, that never practice it, and do things way outside the SOP's because "that's how I've always done it.
How many airplanes have these guys damaged or wrecked?
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by iamnomaverick »

HansDietrich wrote:
iamnomaverick wrote:
HansDietrich wrote:IamnoMaverick:

That's pretty arrogant of you sir. First of all, it was a CAPTAIN that said that, not an F/O. Most First Officers I know at Jazz love the uniform and finally "looking the part".
I don't agree at all. perhaps you should have clarified cause I have never encountered or seen an instants were the FO was questioning their captain about their hat so I call BS on your entire story... So you are saying Captains at Jazz are not being paid professionally now?

From all your previous posts I understand that you are butt hurt over flying the classic but really that is no reason to sewer your co-workers or the company that puts food on the table.

Go back and read my post:
I said: (quote)
"Best answer yet (I heard it in the Lounge at YYZ between two Jazz pilots)..."

It was you which (in your arrogance) automatically assumed it must have been an F/O. It was actually a captain speaking to another captain (probably his friend). You can call "BS" on my story all you want. Among the things I've heard in the crew room:

1. This uniforms sucks
2. This uniform has no pockets
3. I'm not even wearing those retarded pants. I bought my own at Mark's Wearhouse, because they have back pockets.
... and the list goes on.

So what if I'm "butt-hurt" about flying the Classic Dash? I paid my dues in the industry and now I want something more. Is that wrong? Eventually I'll get it. Till, then I'll come to work, wear my uniform (which I actually really really like, no bullshit here, including the hat) and last and most definitely not least:, fly that plane as I'm supposed to do it, by the book (to the best of my ability and knowledge), always strive for something better and offer the best service I can to our customers, because guess what? I am also a customer of AC (and Express)... and my family and my friends are also customers of Air Canada (and Express).

Get off your high horse and come down to the real world, where you'll realize that we're all in this together. Bitching a little here and there on some online forum is not the end of the world.

P.S. When's your time for retirement? (Just curious)
HansDietRich, I am not blaming you personally for what someone else may or may not have said. You got defensive and called me "arogant" for "assuming" when your story could easily be assumed to be a conversation between a captain and an FO. Again, my issue is the answer not the act. It is one thing for someone to say they don't want to wear their hat because they don't like it, don't think it is a good look but to blame it on pay that is absurd.

Just seems like a lot of people have a lot of negative things to say. I remember when I interviewed at Jazz everything was laid out, I did my homework and made a calculated move keeping in mind that I may never go to AC and that I may stay in the regional level (which is my niche). I too didn't get the type I was hoping for initially but the company has always held its end of the contact I signed.

Also, not retiring anytime soon.
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by HansDietrich »

I tend to get defensive when people call me "butt-hurt", especially after putting my time in and paying my dues. Did I know about Jazz and what it was offering? Yes. I knew the pay, I knew schedule, I knew the routes, I knew the aircraft. What I didn't know is about the 4 year freeze and the fact that it's very hard to get a weekend off (1 out of 4 would be sufficient for me). These are the only things I didn't expect.

Anyway, I worked way too hard to get to Jazz and I'm celebrating my time here, but I'm not going to hide or deny the fact that I want something else (aircraft wise)... and it'll come... If not next year, the next... and if not... there's WJ, Sky Regional, Transat, Encore, Porter, Corporate, etc. Nobody's holding a gun to my head to stay here; and why should they? It's a free world, ain't it?
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Re: Jazz Hatters

Post by iamnomaverick »

HansDietrich wrote:I tend to get defensive when people call me "butt-hurt", especially after putting my time in and paying my dues. Did I know about Jazz and what it was offering? Yes. I knew the pay, I knew schedule, I knew the routes, I knew the aircraft. What I didn't know is about the 4 year freeze and the fact that it's very hard to get a weekend off (1 out of 4 would be sufficient for me). These are the only things I didn't expect.

Anyway, I worked way too hard to get to Jazz and I'm celebrating my time here, but I'm not going to hide or deny the fact that I want something else (aircraft wise)... and it'll come... If not next year, the next... and if not... there's WJ, Sky Regional, Transat, Encore, Porter, Corporate, etc. Nobody's holding a gun to my head to stay here; and why should they? It's a free world, ain't it?
HansdietRich,

Up until the point you called me "arrogant" for assuming the convo was between a Captain and an FO I never made any comments about you, just regarding the story. You were just the guy who overheard said conversation. However you seemed to be interested in attacking me personally for some reason.

I am on no high horse, I just don't exactly enjoy hearing people complaining about the pay here. I am not saying they shouldn't be paid more (contrary but that is not in my hands), however, they agreed and signed the contract so they better be prepared to follow it and stay professional while the opportunity they came here for comes their way. some of us are here for the long run so we don't need to hear it all the time.(This is in no way directed at you personally HansDietRich)

I wish you good luck in getting on the type you want or on your next move.
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