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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:26 am 
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I read on the Air Canada forum that some of the new hire came from Air Transat. Do some of you know the reasons why people with a few years at AT would change for Air Canada?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:45 am 
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Job security/ better pay / quicker movement


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:54 am 
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even considering the first 4 years of flat pay at Air Canada?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:14 am 
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Quicker upgrade, better chance of YUL base and some good old greener grass syndrome for some.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:04 am 
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I left AT for AC a couple years ago, I have to say the grass is NOT greener. I was YYZ based 37 F/O working 7-10 days a month, productive turns. The money was good, the flying was great, I was 75% on the 37 YYZ and I could always get what I wanted off. I was having fun at work.....

AC not so much. I won't go into great details other then....seniority is life here....kiss weekends, birthdays, anything from Wed evening to Sunday evening good bye....other then an rP job you are working hard. Even RP's work 12 days....



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:10 am 
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livinlife wrote:
I left AT for AC a couple years ago, I have to say the grass is NOT greener. I was YYZ based 37 F/O working 7-10 days a month, productive turns. The money was good, the flying was great, I was 75% on the 37 YYZ and I could always get what I wanted off. I was having fun at work.....

AC not so much. I won't go into great details other then....seniority is life here....kiss weekends, birthdays, anything from Wed evening to Sunday evening good bye....other then an rP job you are working hard. Even RP's work 12 days....


I still don't understand why people avoid bidding RP when offered during the first day of ground school. Great way to start, with highly productive pairings and most importantly you are paid the same for first 4 years anyways. Also learn a lot from the senior guys.



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:55 am 
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While on the subject...has Air Transat been hiring lately? If not, any idea when?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:59 am 
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sanjet wrote:
I still don't understand why people avoid bidding RP when offered during the first day of ground school. Great way to start, with highly productive pairings and most importantly you are paid the same for first 4 years anyways. Also learn a lot from the senior guys.


I can see that if you are new to flying jets or International ops.

I can't see it if you are coming off the 737 - I wouldn't want to be RP either.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:58 pm 
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AC or AT hmmm.


Forest for the trees. You start at any airline your life is going to be horrible. Seniority is EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE in Canada.

AC. Want to fly domestic? Bid domestic. Want to fly to Asia? bid it. Want to fly to Europe? Bid it. 37's 320's 321's 777's 787's C's etc. And most importantly regardless of what seat you sit it you will make really good money AND you will have a job for the rest of your career. Furthermore, when things slow down, and the always do. Take a leave, accrue seniority and work anywhere you want.

Is Transat a good place to work? Probably. But can you guarantee the above mentioned items at AT? Nope.

.Don't tug on Superman's cape and don't turn down AC if they offer you a position.



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:43 am 
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livinlife wrote:
I left AT for AC a couple years ago, I have to say the grass is NOT greener. I was YYZ based 37 F/O working 7-10 days a month, productive turns. The money was good, the flying was great, I was 75% on the 37 YYZ and I could always get what I wanted off. I was having fun at work.....

AC not so much. I won't go into great details other then....seniority is life here....kiss weekends, birthdays, anything from Wed evening to Sunday evening good bye....other then an rP job you are working hard. Even RP's work 12 days....


It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that AC used to be about seniority. The pro's of choice after a few years when you got some seniority more than outweighed any negatives early on. Unfortunately most of the ability to chose will soon be gone with rouge now having the ability to grow by up to 31 320's before any more mainline growth. (6 freebies from the 87's delivered next year and a planned 25 "regional replacement" aircraft") This will all but condemn people to the majority of their career at AC of 16+ days a month on the narrow body and leave a lot less room for those that do indeed want some sort of quality of life outside the cockpit.

The RP gig is one of the best at the company for those that value the time off. Many of the people on the list are long past the 4 years flat pay. Mainline narrow body used to be that was as well, however that has all just been voted away.



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:29 pm 
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Jimmy_Hoffa wrote:
Unfortunately most of the ability to chose will soon be gone with rouge now having the ability to grow by up to 31 320's before any more mainline growth. (6 freebies from the 87's delivered next year and a planned 25 "regional replacement" aircraft") This will all but condemn people to the majority of their career at AC of 16+ days a month on the narrow body and leave a lot less room for those that do indeed want some sort of quality of life outside the cockpit.



So would it be logical to assume that most of the 319's will be RRA and that the core NB Rouge flying will be 320/321?

What is the likelihood that ACPA would permit 190's as RRA?



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:53 pm 
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rudder wrote:
Jimmy_Hoffa wrote:
Unfortunately most of the ability to chose will soon be gone with rouge now having the ability to grow by up to 31 320's before any more mainline growth. (6 freebies from the 87's delivered next year and a planned 25 "regional replacement" aircraft") This will all but condemn people to the majority of their career at AC of 16+ days a month on the narrow body and leave a lot less room for those that do indeed want some sort of quality of life outside the cockpit.



So would it be logical to assume that most of the 319's will be RRA and that the core NB Rouge flying will be 320/321?

What is the likelihood that ACPA would permit 190's as RRA?


100%. All the company need do is ask.



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:36 pm 
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rudder wrote:
Jimmy_Hoffa wrote:
Unfortunately most of the ability to chose will soon be gone with rouge now having the ability to grow by up to 31 320's before any more mainline growth. (6 freebies from the 87's delivered next year and a planned 25 "regional replacement" aircraft") This will all but condemn people to the majority of their career at AC of 16+ days a month on the narrow body and leave a lot less room for those that do indeed want some sort of quality of life outside the cockpit.



So would it be logical to assume that most of the 319's will be RRA and that the core NB Rouge flying will be 320/321?

What is the likelihood that ACPA would permit 190's as RRA?


The E190's are going to the desert they are like leppers to both AC management and the union. they are not included in thegrowrh / shrink formulae leaving somenvoters to believe Mainline would have to grow by 30+ fins before rouge could expand. But I digress.. The union gave AC everything they wanted with regards to rouge and it is way more economical to use the 320's.. The EMJ are coming due for heavy checks and when they do they will be replaced by the C Series. The regional replacement will be 320's from the Mainline as they are replaced by 37's, the only other possibility going forward would to put the CSeries at rouge, but unlikely since not much sense in having another type there since until the 12th of Sept the plan was to have the 737's / CSeries replace the ASM'a provided by the EMJ/320's. It's just a question of timing.



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:16 am 
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atphat wrote:
rudder wrote:
Jimmy_Hoffa wrote:
Unfortunately most of the ability to chose will soon be gone with rouge now having the ability to grow by up to 31 320's before any more mainline growth. (6 freebies from the 87's delivered next year and a planned 25 "regional replacement" aircraft") This will all but condemn people to the majority of their career at AC of 16+ days a month on the narrow body and leave a lot less room for those that do indeed want some sort of quality of life outside the cockpit.



So would it be logical to assume that most of the 319's will be RRA and that the core NB Rouge flying will be 320/321?

What is the likelihood that ACPA would permit 190's as RRA?


100%. All the company need do is ask.


Sad but true!



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:27 pm 
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For 100% job security, the answer is big red. They are in the too big to fail category and will always be protected by the feds.

If you are willing to settle for 99% job security, AT is good. Not in the too big to fail bunch, but, they are financed big time by the caisse de depot, which has alot of political pull and can wiggle out of nasty financial situations.

As far as job satisfaction goes, AT probably wins. Long long term though, you will make more dollars at big red. just need to be patient.

Both have had their brushes with closure. Both have survived.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:34 pm 
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Don’t like the seniority system, join Rouge. Socialized bidding, productive turns, no reserve, great layovers on the 767.

One thing that AC offers is choice, money isn’t important and want to work 9 days a month be a RP. Want to make good money but don’t care about lifestyle join the bottom of the bus left seat.



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Are pilots in Canada still wondering if AC is a better career than AT? Seriously?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:46 pm 
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Location: location, location, is what matters
Seriously? :?:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:16 pm 
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99% job security at AT? Seriously?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:31 pm 
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Location: location, location, is what matters
OK young ones, go big red, or........perish. That's what the redcoats say anyways.

AC personnel have once again proven beyond a reasonable doubt that if you do not wave the red flag, you are doomed no matter what path you choose.

Some things never change. The attitude has been like that since I can remember.

For the young ones out there, I say again, 100% job security, they will be always bailed out, too big to fail.

A poster does not think that 99% job security is possible at the other place; OK, put it wherever you want. You are the king, arentcha?

Hail big red.


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