Pilot in Waiting.

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digits_
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

Post by digits_ »

Diadem wrote:Haven't you been harping on for years about how pilots shouldn't accept anything but flying jobs, and anyone who works the ramp is wasting their license? Now that's actually possible, with fresh CPLs going straight into cockpits, and that makes them lazy? This loathing of anyone younger than you is really getting tiresome.
Shush... you are looking for logic where there is none :wink:
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

Post by goingnowherefast »

Diadem wrote:
Cat Driver wrote:If they are not taught values and responsibility when they are young you get a society of people who are entitled and are taught that they are owed anything they want.

The concept of work for pay is beyond their comprehension.

I am sure happy I do not have to run a business in today's world of the entitled.
What? This makes absolutely no sense. They're entitled, and think they deserve everything, but they work for free? If they're entitled then they should be expecting to get paid lots to fly big fancy airplanes, and not sell themselves short by accepting a ramp job. Haven't you been harping on for years about how pilots shouldn't accept anything but flying jobs, and anyone who works the ramp is wasting their license? Now that's actually possible, with fresh CPLs going straight into cockpits, and that makes them lazy? This loathing of anyone younger than you is really getting tiresome.
Finally, somebody calling Cat out on his crap. Rampies are allowed to line up to fly a DC-3. Flying anything from this century, you get to be called entitled if you are flying it, and a waste of a license if you are a "pilot in waiting". Let's everybody just get off this old-timer's lawn, he's starting to look like an old troll.
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Zaibatsu
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

Post by Zaibatsu »

rookiepilot wrote:
Cat Driver wrote:If they are not taught values and responsibility when they are young you get a society of people who are entitled and are taught that they are owed anything they want.

The concept of work for pay is beyond their comprehension.

I am sure happy I do not have to run a business in today's world of the entitled.
:prayer:

I have a question I'd love an answer to:

How many who've progressed to their CPL, in the last 5 years or so, have done it without any help from the bank of Mom and Dad?

Those (very few I'd imagine) who answer in the affirmative.....kudos.
Who the @#$! cares? Maybe the fact that the upcoming generation is the first one to be paid less to do more has something to do with it. Go look at real wages vs cost of living. Go look at the wage rollbacks and B C or D scales at the airlines.

Sorry, I couldn't drop out of high school and get a union job to pay for my training like members of a previous generation could. That is, if they were actually inclined to do so instead of just buying a house on that job and pissing their money away on six packs and lottery tickets(for real, the lottos are facing shortfalls because millenials aren't buying tickets) and being so lazy and entitled that most of those jobs were exported to China.

Or get their pilots license paid for by the government. No sh**, get your license signed off, get a cheque for it.
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Cat Driver
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

Post by Cat Driver »

Let's everybody just get off this old-timer's lawn, he's starting to look like an old troll.

Yeh, that is what I must be. :smt040

Except for one little fact I also have experienced both the older days of aviation as well as the modern days of aviation.

Granted I have been out of commercial aviation since 2005 and newer technology has been introduced into the airline field of aircraft, my last training and employment was with Airbus Industries in Toulouse France at the factory where they design and build their aircraft.

As to working for Joe on the ramp to maybe get to fly his airplanes I have never experienced that but I do know him quite well from our business deals over the years.

I personally found him to be a very fair and knowledgeable person.

Anyhow goingnowherefast " modern aviation " is subjective and in most cases based on individual experience.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Rightseatdriver
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

Post by Rightseatdriver »

It's one thing to work the ramp for a year or 2 then get upgraded and "earn it". It's another thing to bust your balls, stay late, come in early, cover everyone else's holiday shifts, literally get shit on by management and clean lavatories because no one else wants to day in and day out for over 2 years without getting anything other than a mediocre pay cheque and "a foot in the door" out of it. I speak for a lot of my friends that have gone through the ramp path to have their dreams of one day getting into that shiny king air, destroyed. Enough with the carrot dangling. It's 2017. The industry is moving at an alarmingly fast rate and to "earn your way" (getting Abused by management) is unnecessary. Happy I never went that route.
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Cat Driver
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

Post by Cat Driver »

Are there any companies that hire ramp people that treat their people fairly and give them a flying position in a reasonable time frame?

I ask the question because I really don't know the answer.

As to the pay issue that is driven by supply and demand.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
BeaverDreamer
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

Post by BeaverDreamer »

Cat Driver wrote:Are there any companies that hire ramp people that treat their people fairly and give them a flying position in a reasonable time frame?

I ask the question because I really don't know the answer.

As to the pay issue that is driven by supply and demand.
Depends on your definitions of reasonable and fair. But certainly some are better than others.
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propfeather
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

Post by propfeather »

Cat Driver wrote:Are there any companies that hire ramp people that treat their people fairly and give them a flying position in a reasonable time frame?

I ask the question because I really don't know the answer.

As to the pay issue that is driven by supply and demand.
Borek
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

Post by Cat Driver »

Depends on your definitions of reasonable and fair.
Well treating them fairly is giving them the assurance they will be able to fly at least enough to stay current and reasonable time wise would be outlined in the hiring agreement.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
BE20 Driver
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

Post by BE20 Driver »

Bacunayagua wrote:Can I also get that offer? I mean, as long as it's not working for Joe in Yellowknife or Frank out of Pickle.
I just flew with a guy who worked for Frank. He had a ton of good things to say about him. Since it ran contradictory to what I had heard in the past, I spend 5 days asking him about it. He had some great stories and I felt that he was genuine that skyward was a good place and he was treated fairly.

Come to think of it, I also flew with a guy who used to work for Joe. Slightly different stories but he also liked the work and the planes and he had thought about going back to work for him.

Common thread about both of those people was that if you worked hard, the boss would bend over backward for you. If you were an entitled millennial who was only there to put in the minimum effort required, well you probably got what you deserved.

One of the companies I used to work at recently put feelers out for a pilot in waiting type of job. It was the best company I ever worked at. Management there are some of the best people I've worked for. The wait to get into an airplane isn't very long at all and if you show some initiative, it's even shorter. spend your whole shift hiding in the dark corners of the hanger and guess what, you'll spend 1.5 years working the ramp.

The point I'm trying to make is that everyone starts somewhere. No matter what job you have, be the best whatever you can be. Unless I'm mistaken, there are no direct entry 777 captain postings. The only thing that will get you one of those is hard work. It's usually worth it.
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Victory
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

Post by Victory »

BE20 Driver wrote:skyward
Different Frank I think.
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BE20 Driver
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Re: Pilot in Waiting.

Post by BE20 Driver »

Maybe I'm getting Pickle Lake and Sioux Lookout mixed up. Either way, some people love working for these guys and find ways to make the best of it.

The crappy companies I worked for had even crappier management but generally left the hard workers alone. Only the lazy bastards got singled out.
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