Should I stay or should I go?

Discuss topics relating to airlines.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore

Message
Author
BE20 Driver
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 12:58 pm

Should I stay or should I go?

#1 Post by BE20 Driver » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:08 pm

I've been giving this a bit more thought lately. The pay for pilots in Canada sucks. After 5 years at a feeder and now a major carrier, I can barely afford to provide for my family in a major city in Canada.

Call me pessimistic but I don't see big gains being made by a new contract.

Many of my colleagues have gone to the competitor. There is an advantage there of a quicker upgrade, higher salaries and less work for the same pay step. That said, you'll still loose 53% of your pay when you finally start earning a good living. Trudeau has lots of nannies and hair products to pay for don't you know.

The delayed gratification of a career in Canada just isn't what it used to be. I know people generally value life in Canada but the pay/tax/benefit package is just falling further behind other places in the world.

So I think the questions isn't so much should I stay or should I go, it's more of a matter of where to go. Emirates/Fly Dubai pay well but the lifestyle isn't there. Too much work and not enough time off. China only takes captains with previous narrow body PIC time. Japan looks good since the lifestyle is good. Still, it seems that like Canada, Japan is getting behind the salary/benefits curve. I don't have European licenses and I don't have a green card for 'merica so those places are out.

What else is out there? My criteria is great pay and lifestyle and lower tax than Canada (nearly everywhere in the world is lower). Where would you go or where would you consider working?
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
'97 Tercel
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:19 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#2 Post by '97 Tercel » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:21 pm

I hear ya....even with a domestic pilot shortage, there still seems to be a carbon-taxed "swoopification" spiraling us into Sh$tsville.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
Cat Driver
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 18815
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#3 Post by Cat Driver » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:32 pm

Well for starters would you let Justin Trudeau run your company?

Canada gets what they vote for.

You have sub third world Government.
---------- ADS -----------
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.

User avatar
currysonic
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 11:46 pm
Location: Milky Way Galaxy

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#4 Post by currysonic » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:45 pm

Far far off decision for me, but I've been researching Avianca and south/central America in general. Eva air in Taiwan. Jetstar (Mostly Singapore base, but they have Australia, Japan, Vietnam and Indonesia bases... seems to operate as separate entities... based on 45 min of research). Those are the ones I've looked into that wasn't included in your country list.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
Inverted2
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1873
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:46 am
Location: Ontario

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#5 Post by Inverted2 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:46 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Well for starters would you let Justin Trudeau run your company?

Canada gets what they vote for.

You have sub third world Government.
Yep. Socks never met a tax he didn't like.
---------- ADS -----------

Victory
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:32 am

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#6 Post by Victory » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:50 pm

A few hundred hours in the right seat of a 737 probably isn't going to get you that overseas job of your dreams. Remember there are people that do that for their first job. That's who you are sharing the job market with. They are willing to work for a lot less than you. I would stay and get some PIC. How long is the upgrade time at Westjet now anyways?
---------- ADS -----------

BE20 Driver
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 12:58 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#7 Post by BE20 Driver » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:42 pm

I didn't vote for the guy. I wouldn't let him run my company, nor would I want him running my country. It's who we're stuck with though and I'm making the best of what we've got.

I think Avianca would be really hard to get into as a foreigner. Having worked in Colombia in a previous life, I recall it being very difficult and bureaucratic to get all the proper paperwork. I suspect it would be almost impossible to get a work permit etc. I loved Colombia and the people there were amazing so I would go back in a heartbeat.

Victory, that is some interesting perspective. I can't disagree that in other jurisdictions, most people start in the right seat of a 737. Those people often take a lot longer to upgrade which is why China, Hong Kong etc often bring in white devils. Even if you don't go in as a direct entry captain, upgrade times may be shorter. Also, many of these companies pay much better while you wait and really well when you upgrade. I've got more than a few hundred hours on the 737 but I realize that it's all FO time which might as well be a few hundred hours.

Upgrade times at the teal team are about 7-8 years right now. That's if you want a YYZ base. Anything in YYC is around 10 years and I just flew with a 13 year guy who figured he was 5-6 years away from a YVR base. We have such a young workforce that this won't speed up much in the near future.
The problem is we eat our young in north america. Both major carriers crap on the new guys and pay is 1/4 what you can earn overseas. I can't even afford to take my family to the dentist here without breaking a sweat.

I'm just thinking that there has to be something better than 3-4 years more of sub-par WAWCON.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
MarkyMark90
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:55 pm
Location: 4500 ft doing spins

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#8 Post by MarkyMark90 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:56 pm

I spoke to a foreign Vietnam Airlines captain months ago and he told me he will never go back to North America.

Vietnam is a very nice place to live with a very unique culture. I loved visiting and I would have stayed there if I could. I only have positive comments about the people who stayed there for 1+ years.
---------- ADS -----------
My dream is to fly... Over the rainbow, so high!!

Tiny Voices
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:46 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#9 Post by Tiny Voices » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:08 pm

I'm not interested in living over seas myself. And flying a domestic schedule on a 37 in China doesn't leave you much time to visit home. Ever thought about going back to one of those well paying King Air gigs that get you home every night, keep you in one time zone for the most part, flying a much less fatiguing schedule, and allows you to live a great lifestyle in a much less expensive centre? That's where my mind has been taking me lately.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
HansDietrich
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:33 am

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#10 Post by HansDietrich » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:54 pm

"Should I stay or should I go?"

The question of the decade. It's really unfortunate how horrible things are getting for Canadians in general. It's not just our industry that no longer offers a living wage. I have friends that are engineers, teachers, tradesmen, etc. and every one of them are struggling to make "Ends Meat". Young Canadians finish teacher's college and have to substitute for many years, or go teach in some god forsaken community where they get threatened with violence and basically can't wait get the &^$* out. (Sound familiar...?)

Taxes, the cost of housing in major Canadian cities (even cities like London, ONT, Winnipeg, Saskatoon, etc) are outrageous. Add in there the high cost of food, services, daycare, that leaves very little money to do other things. I won't even get into things like "pension", "tuition fund for the kids", etc. It really takes a lot of discipline to even afford the most basic things. I would love to take 1000 random Canadians that voted for Trudeau or the NDP and really try to understand what they were thinking. I mean, are we morons in this country? Do we really have to give 50% of our paychecks to taxes?

I heard a nice quote, some claim it was by Winston Churchill, but there's no proof he ever said that... regardless:
"The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter". Yeah, some of us shouldn't be allowed to vote, that's how stupid we are. Just look down South...

Back to your topic:
I've been looking at many options myself. It just doesn't seem to be an end to this "stepping stone" from one job to the other. Even the prospect of going to the "Big Cheese" is not as attractive as it once was. The pay is nowhere near where it should be (again, in comparison with the cost of living in Canada) and the schedule does get better with the years, but not fast enough.

I was thinking of going to Asia or Middle East or even returning to the Old Continent, but those places have their issues too. I thought about corporate flying, working for a college or flight school as an instructor / manager, etc and honestly, and even quitting aviation and taking up a trade (electrician).

Generally, going overseas means you have to give up a lot of comforts that Canada offers (from a society point of view) as well as the fact that you're now on your own; pension (like we have anything worth while here), savings, etc. You also work your ass off in the Middle East.

There's no perfect way. You have to ask yourself: "Do I want to keep on trucking flying a 737 in Calgary, or do I want to take a chance and see where that brings me?" If you're a family man, (and I think you are from the sounds of it), I wouldn't leave. I'd stay put because unlike 90% of the poor bastards that waste their time on this site, you're quite high up in the aviation food chain.

Do what's right for you and your family... If you do go overseas, go there with a set timeframe in mind and a goal every month: "I"m going to save 33% of my salary or I'm going to do X Y & Z."

Remember that old Latin saying:

"Ubi panis ibi patria" "Where there is bread, there is my country"

Good luck!

P.S. Personally, if I don't make it to Air Canada, I'm leaving the country and going elsewhere. (That's my decision... this week... I'll let you know next week where my loyalties lie)
---------- ADS -----------
Last edited by HansDietrich on Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BE20 Driver
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 12:58 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#11 Post by BE20 Driver » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:32 pm

HansDietrich - This is pretty much where I'm coming from. I know I'm pretty high up on the food chain. The closer I get to the top, the less appealing the view is.

Those who entered aviation prior to say, 2015, will understand the sacrifices it took to get to this point. Therein lies the problem. We delay gratification for such a long time in this industry that at some point that has to start paying off. Airlines figure on you taking a pay cut and starting back at the bottom. Anyone coming from Encore and taking that massive pay cut for a little jet time will understand. Same thing when you upgrade and start back with nothing.

Yes, I'm a family man. My family and I are all very comfortable living overseas and getting along in a different culture. We have lived outside of Canada before and are well traveled. That aspect of it doesn't put me off of going somewhere.

I may leave, I may not. Maybe I'll leave later. I'm just looking for specifics on where to go and why. I know there's something good out there, I'm just trying to narrow down where and for how much.
---------- ADS -----------

fish4life
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1373
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:32 am

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#12 Post by fish4life » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:33 pm

Where do you live right now? Is commuting from a cheaper city an option?
---------- ADS -----------

JeppsOnFire
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:45 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#13 Post by JeppsOnFire » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:11 pm

I think all pilots must have this internal debate, probably bi-annually.

I broke it down to three elements.
1. Location. (I live where all our family is).
2. Schedule (I won't miss out watching my kids grow up).
3. Compensation (Enough where living within my means is actually possible).

Airplane types, destinations and professional status mean nothing to me. And I'm not one of those pilots who say that and then the next minute accept that beautiful Gulfstream job with the huge suitcase. I've turned down big, fast, new shiny metal before. I've felt disappointed that I didn't get to fly the newest big fast jet but I have never regretted it.

If you want more than a simple list similar to mine above, this may not be the job for you.

** I realize my post doesn't specifically address an airline job, foreign or domestic - but what I see regularly amongst pilots is an unhappiness problem not necessarily just an employment problem. For me, I couldn't possibly expect my happiness to come from my job.
---------- ADS -----------
Last edited by JeppsOnFire on Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Everything's amazing right now, and nobody's happy.
- Louis CK

BE20 Driver
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 12:58 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#14 Post by BE20 Driver » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:16 pm

fish4life wrote:Where do you live right now? Is commuting from a cheaper city an option?
Commuting to where becomes the question. Hong Kong? Taipei? Doha? Ho Chi Minh? Thompson MB? I'll take a hard pass on the last one.

Living with my family is a priority. We already live far from both sets of parents and siblings so I am referring to bringing my wife and kids along for the ride. They're ok with it.
---------- ADS -----------

Diadem
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 602
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#15 Post by Diadem » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:03 pm

Where do people get the idea that we pay more than 50% of our income in taxes? https://retirehappy.ca/does-half-your-m ... -to-taxes/ For the OP, who evidently lives in Alberta, "Here in Alberta, we enjoy the lowest tax freedom day in Canada, which was May 17 in 2016. On that basis, this translates to a 38% tax rate, which is far from 50%."
Anyway, if I have to pay 38% of my income in tax (which I don't; I make close to the average Canadian income, and I pay 26%) in order to have stability, drinkable water, health care whenever I need it (and yes, I think the Canadian system is quite good, because we don't keep lines short by excluding those who can't pay), and the freedom to express my opinion on this forum, then I'm happy to pay. A lot of the countries mentioned in this thread are in unstable parts of the world where they could be subject to armed conflict with neighbours or internal coups, treat the lower classes like indentured servants, or don't allow access to websites which would permit posters to express themselves as they please. If the bottom line is all the matters to you, then get to it, but you could make a lot more smuggling drugs, so why stick to legal avenues if that's what concerns you? I've lived overseas, and I'm not going back.
Edit: I was going to move on, but I can't let this go. I was in the military before I became a pilot, and it really irks me when people bash my country. What have you done to make Canada better? Everyone in here seems to want to be given everything without contributing anything in return. Maybe taxes are higher than in most countries, but services are better too, and I think that's a small price to pay to live in a country where I don't have to bribe the police or worry about industry dumping toxic waste in my drinking water. The last election demonstrated that the majority of Canadians would prefer to live in a country where expenses are higher and consequently taxes are higher, rather than one where no programs are funded. Just because you don't like the result of an election doesn't mean that the results should be invalidated; that's the point of a democracy, where the direction of the country is determined by the populace. You certainly won't have any such issues in the UAE or China, but you also may be expelled from the country with no notice if the government decides it doesn't like something you post here, if you can access this site at all. If you don't like the state of Canada and all you intend to do is complain about the way most of us think this country should be, then please leave, because we'd be better off without you.
---------- ADS -----------
Last edited by Diadem on Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BE20 Driver
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 12:58 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#16 Post by BE20 Driver » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:32 pm

I never said I live in Alberta.
Diadem wrote:Where do people get the idea that we pay more than 50% of our income in taxes?
Well, from the paper below for starters. There's a pretty chart in there that shows that in 2016, Canada has the 3rd highest marginal tax rate of any OECD country at 53.5%.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/c ... income-tax


Here are a few highlights:
-As Canada recognizes the 100th anniversary of the introduction of the personal income tax, it is crucial to understand just how uncompetitive Canada has become with respect to the personal income tax.
-In light of the significance of marginal income tax rates on economic behaviour, it is important to consider Canada’s standing against similar countries.
-The combined federal and provincial top tax rates provide a large one-two punch to take-home income for Canadians.
-In 2015, the federal government announced an increase to the top federal personal income tax rate to 33 per cent effective in 2016, which meant that the top marginal rate increased to 53.5 per cent (2016)

Conclusion
-Both economic theory and empirical analysis indicate that high marginal income tax rates distort behaviour in harmful ways and in particular reduce economic growth.
---------- ADS -----------

Diadem
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 602
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#17 Post by Diadem » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:40 pm

Do you not understand how marginal tax rates work? You're not paying 53% of your income in taxes; if you make over $202800, then anything you make over $202800 will be taxed at that rate. Everything you earn below that will be taxed at the lower amounts. If you made exactly $202800 your average rate, i.e. what you actually pay, would be 36.8%, and the tipping point at which you would actually pay over 50% is literally at $1000000.
---------- ADS -----------

BE20 Driver
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 12:58 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#18 Post by BE20 Driver » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:48 pm

[quote="Diadem"]
Anyway, if I have to pay 38% of my income in tax [...] in order to have stability, drinkable water, health care whenever I need it [...], and the freedom to express my opinion on this forum, then I'm happy to pay.

Edit: I was going to move on, but I can't let this go. I was in the military before I became a pilot, and it really irks me when people bash my country.../quote]

Australia is stable and has a lower rate of tax
The UK has great drinking water and a lower rate of tax
Germany has great health care and a lower rate of tax
Switzerland has freedom of expression,...

Just because we have these things doesn't mean that we have the best of them.

I also used to be in the military and have made many sacrifices both in and out of uniform. I have worked in three war zones contributing to bringing stability to these locations. Or so I'd like to believe.

If I were only mad at Trudeau 2.0, I would have left after the last election. It is a contributing factor, combined with general wage stagnation in Canada and opportunity for personal, professional and family growth. It isn't a Canada bashing thing; it isn't a WestJet bashing thing.

Edit: You guys are getting off topic. I'm not asking anyone for their opinion of tax code. I understand that right now, I don't pay shit in taxes because I am just over the poverty line. Eventually when I make a good living, only 2 OECD countries will pay more in income tax than I will. I get it that living outside of Canada isn't for everyone. My family is ok with it. Yours might not be.

I am only asking this simple question "if you leave Canada, where would you go?"
---------- ADS -----------
Last edited by BE20 Driver on Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
justwork
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:59 am

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#19 Post by justwork » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:51 pm

BE20 Driver wrote:I've been giving this a bit more thought lately. The pay for pilots in Canada sucks. After 5 years at a feeder and now a major carrier, I can barely afford to provide for my family in a major city in Canada.

Call me pessimistic but I don't see big gains being made by a new contract.

Many of my colleagues have gone to the competitor. There is an advantage there of a quicker upgrade, higher salaries and less work for the same pay step. That said, you'll still loose 53% of your pay when you finally start earning a good living. Trudeau has lots of nannies and hair products to pay for don't you know.

The delayed gratification of a career in Canada just isn't what it used to be. I know people generally value life in Canada but the pay/tax/benefit package is just falling further behind other places in the world.

So I think the questions isn't so much should I stay or should I go, it's more of a matter of where to go. Emirates/Fly Dubai pay well but the lifestyle isn't there. Too much work and not enough time off. China only takes captains with previous narrow body PIC time. Japan looks good since the lifestyle is good. Still, it seems that like Canada, Japan is getting behind the salary/benefits curve. I don't have European licenses and I don't have a green card for 'merica so those places are out.

What else is out there? My criteria is great pay and lifestyle and lower tax than Canada (nearly everywhere in the world is lower). Where would you go or where would you consider working?
Bounce. Get on a Sky Regional DEC or at least a quick upgrade. That will open up two big doors for you, one at AC and one in China. I've been in China 2 years now (8 months of actual flying PIC) and I'm already transitioning to the 320. I also have a young family at home. Ironically, working on the other side of the planet has had me home more than ever before. It's also pretty nice to not worry about that pesky little thing called money.
---------- ADS -----------

Victory
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:32 am

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#20 Post by Victory » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:07 pm

So you still reside in Canada? Do you have to pay the high rate?
---------- ADS -----------

DropTanks
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:56 am

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#21 Post by DropTanks » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:08 am

Sounds like you came up through Encore. Grab a Q400 contract floating around out there. Very lucrative as well from what my friends tell me. I think Spicejet has a new one out as well. How long you been at WJ mainline? Pay is so much better at yr 3. More than any Sky Regional captain.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
pilotbzh
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 542
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:33 am
Location: yyz

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#22 Post by pilotbzh » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:29 am

The grass is always greener on the other side, It's fertilized with bullshit....
I hate paying taxes, but it's what it cost to live here and that is worth it ...
---------- ADS -----------

parallel60
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:59 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#23 Post by parallel60 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:54 am

Diadem, well said. Thank you for your service and any member for that matter. I love Canada and I'm happy my Taxes go to this country and its treatment of humans. Until other countries change the way they rule they won't receive my services or tax money. There are many great countries out there but there are a few that I refuse to support(work for).
---------- ADS -----------

JBI
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 673
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:21 am
Location: YYZ / LGA

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#24 Post by JBI » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:33 am

As someone who is flying in Canada but living in a different country I have a few thoughts on this while trying to not get into political specifics.

I think it's fair to say that we enjoy a good quality of life in Canada - on par or better than most of the other G20 developed countries. Personally, there are a lot of quality of life issues that we and those countries have that I would want to give up (Access to clean water, personal safety when walking down the street, access to safe and hygienic health care, basic civil rights to not be arbitrarily imprisoned). Problem is, for most of those countries, there are not opportunities for foreign pilots and/or there are language barriers (i.e. sure flying for Swiss, Lufthansa or Air France would be amazing but that's not going to happen for Canadians in the near future.)

The remaining places that allow foreign pilots have a mixed bag of options. As you indicated, the 3 Middle East carriers offer some pretty decent salaries and living conditions, but the schedule has their challenges. Asia has some pretty awesome commuting contracts for Captains on wide bodies, but any of the NB work seems to pay less and be pretty relentless on the scheduling. Personally, I would rather get paid less and have my 12-15 days off a month in Canada than getting paid more and having 8 days off a month in China.

As much as the Swoop announcement and the complete lack of information from WJ about proposed wages and working conditions has frustrated many of the WJ/EN pilots, there still are at least 10 787s on the way. While the initial CBA may not be amazing, I do feel it is just a matter of time until the pilot shortage combined with the proliferation of ULCC airlines and wide body expansion reaches a tipping point. While all aviation industry predictions sadly depend on the state of the world and the US President's midnight bathroom tweets, I do think things are good and will keep getting better.

I've seen some of the more experienced (jaded ;) ) members on here in one post exclaim that "It's a race to the bottom" while in another proclaim that the new pilots are so "entitled". Thing is, as you also mentioned, the fact that these new pilots have amazing opportunities shows that on a broader spectrum, the industry is going somewhere I haven't seen in my 20 years in the industry. Right now it hasn't translated significantly into wages, but when the regionals are having trouble recruiting 1000 TT hour pilots, it's a good sign.

If regionals can't get pilots, I really can't see how many of the ULCC's will. What everyone seems to forget is that there are only a finite supply of pilots in Canada. These pilots come from different careers, many of which are already having a hard time to crew their aircraft. Even if pilots move to some of the new ULCC's, there are not 100s of 705 Captain ready pilots waiting in the wings to swoop in and take their spots. Do you think Sky or Jazz would risk losing a huge percentage of its Captains without at least trying to match the pay?

As a note, while I don't dispute that Canada does have high taxes, the Fraser Institute isn't the most reputable source for things like this. Their calculation method is somewhat flawed.

So at the end of the day, my opinion is that we're in a pretty awesome spot in with the industry in Canada at the moment. I think the pay off in medium to long term will outweigh the benefits of moving to a developing country.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

#25 Post by rookiepilot » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:03 am

Diadem wrote:

Edit: I was going to move on, but I can't let this go. I was in the military before I became a pilot, and it really irks me when people bash my country. What have you done to make Canada better? Everyone in here seems to want to be given everything without contributing anything in return. Maybe taxes are higher than in most countries, but services are better too, and I think that's a small price to pay to live in a country where I don't have to bribe the police or worry about industry dumping toxic waste in my drinking water. The last election demonstrated that the majority of Canadians would prefer to live in a country where expenses are higher and consequently taxes are higher, rather than one where no programs are funded. If you don't like the state of Canada and all you intend to do is complain about the way most of us think this country should be, then please leave, because we'd be better off without you.
I'm not an airline pilot, nor have served in the military. And I thank you and all vets for their service-- I'm an unabashed supporter-----

But this post pisses me off in context with what's really happening out there, as a loyal Canadian, who has run a small business, paid a Lot of taxes, created jobs, supported the economy. So I can't let this pass, either, Diadem.

My country is now calling every small business owner, in effect, a tax cheat, and they believe we should not support good Canadian services, (what bullshit is that) but government gold plated pensions!

There are 123,000 government employees making over $100,000 per year! Gas plants. Bombardier loans. And what has bothered me as a long time, is they aren't considered overpaid. But a small business owner making 80- 100k is a fat cat. Someone explain that one to me.

Is this all cool with you, Diadem? I guess it's easier to point the finger at the small business owners, and say "hey they shouldn't be allowed to save for retirement" or "let them pay 55, 60, 70%" of their income (yes advisors to the government are pushing a 70% top rate)

It isn't only the changes. It's the attitude that lazy government workers are "real hard working Canadians" and small business owners are "tax cheats". I've had it with that.

What do I do to make Canada better? I volunteer. A whole lot. I give a lot of money to charity, and certain advisors want to take away tax credits for that, too. I contribute, a lot in every sense. And my government is crapping all over me. Why should the job creators stay, Diadem? Answer me that.

That's about where my loyalty is these days. It's frayed. I don't have to stay. Neither do thousands of other small business owners. "So then we are better off without you". Really? Pull the capital, and the job creators out of the country. Then where will the country be?

I've sacrificed a lot, risked a lot, given a lot back. I deserve to ensure security for my family, just like anyone here. So when you get pissed anyone is crapping on Canada, maybe my country's government should think about not crapping on its most productive citizens.

Sorry if this is too much drift. But read it and had to put this across. I don't like my government labelling me a crook. And I won't stand for it.
---------- ADS -----------
Last edited by rookiepilot on Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply

Return to “General Airline Industry Comments”