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 Post subject: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:53 am 
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Inhibiting oil is not to be used in flight for more than about 10 hours they say for the life of the engine. So an aircraft that flies very little annually, what do you do? Keep changing the oil back and forth with inhibiting oil? That won't happen.
I was thinking, why not put a litre of inhibiting oil in with the regular oil?
Anyone experiment with this? There must be a way to preserve these engines that don't run regularly without having to change the oil is this a possibility?



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 Post subject: Re: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:10 pm 
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Sell the plane or fly it more? :D


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 Post subject: Re: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:33 am 
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Use a straight weight and pre-heat until toasty warm before flying.


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 Post subject: Re: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:52 am 
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Crazy - We have a maintenance facility and several customers fly very little.

cgrzo - That won't stop the cam from rusting.



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 Post subject: Re: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:19 pm 
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I was reading the ac servicing and ground handling in a cessna twin.

the advice within was if not flying longer than 30 days was a hot oil change prior to storage, dessicator plugs in the cylinders, and a motor until oil pressure shows once a month.



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 Post subject: Re: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:31 pm 
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I know its not aviation approved but does anyone add lucas into the oil, say 5-10%? Works great in all other engines.......


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 Post subject: Re: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:45 pm 
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"cgrzo - That won't stop the cam from rusting"

True but its most likely better than multi vis in an idle plane.

The 2F oil's are 100w ... with a preservative. As far as I know they don't use multi-vis + a preservative in any preservative oil so I assume that the 100w provides better protection than straight weight with or without the preservative additives. This is logical because at cold temps the 100w is quite thick and will take ages to run off a metal part while the 15w50 is quite thin at cold temps and will run much more easily off a cam etc. Its designed to do that and only thicken up as the temps increase.

So seems to me there are a few choices:

1) Run 15w50 or whatever multi vis and do nothing during the month or so of down time.
2) Run 100w+ or 80w and preheat until toasty if you fly and do nothing else during the month of down time.
3) Run 100w+ add Camguard and preheat if you fly and do nothing else during the month of down time.
4) Run the 2F (100W + a preservative) and flush it out to fly during that down time, then put it back).

4 is what Lycoming recommends and is "best", 1 is what most people do and is "worst". 2 or 3 make sense if you have a way to pre-heat thoroughly before every flight and seem like they are a sort of compromise between practical and good. In fact some people swear by 3.



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 Post subject: Re: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:17 am 
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If your aircraft flies infrequently, you should be using straight mineral oil with Camguard mixed in .
And please ....don't start any of that 'mineral oil is for breaking in an engine only" BS
That is simply not true.


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 Post subject: Re: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:47 am 
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Oil type makes very little, if any difference in this situation. Follow the manufacturers recommended procedures, the paperwork needs to be completed also. Log all of your runs to prove it.


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 Post subject: Re: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:01 pm 
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Well my problem is not with my aircraft but others parked out my door. Draining and replenishing is not going to work for these owners.
I'm suggesting adding Camguard to whatever oil they have now because nothing gets easier than that and certainly will not hurt.



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 Post subject: Re: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:39 am 
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Mineral oil actually sticks to the engine internals (creates a varnish like coating ) and in turn protects the engine if it sits dormant for long periods

Detergent oils clean the internal(hence the name) by not sticking to but falling off the internals . This means that the engine internals are not protected the way they should be.
In more modern circles it is believed that mineral oil is for break ins only . That is BS due to the fact that at one time there was no other oil except mineral and all engines operated on it .
I fly / own vintage aircraft which are stored for the winter and do not fly
My system:
I fly exclusively using mineral oil. (with Camguard additive added)
I also add Marvel Mystery Oil to my fuel to help lubricate the engine valves / guides.
At the END of the flying season I do a hot oil change and then store for the winter.
Why because used oil has broken down and is more acidic . I prefer fresh clean oil on my internals while its dormant.
I have never had an issue using this method


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 Post subject: Re: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:54 am 
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fleet16b wrote:

Detergent oils clean the internal(hence the name) by not sticking to but falling off the internals

Detergent additives in oils dissolve metal salts which otherwise would precipitate out as solid particles (and form clumps) in oil. I don't think they have any effect on wetting ability - if they did they'd seriously affect the oil's ability to lubricate - which is achieved only by sticking to and wetting (forming a film on) the metal surface.

Wikipedia says magnesium sulphonate is a common engine oil detergent additive. You can read more about it and how it works here:
https://www.oronite.com/pdfs/Sulfonates_fnWeb.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:07 am 
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fleet16b wrote:
Detergent oils clean the internal(hence the name) by not sticking to but falling off the internals.

No. Non-Detergent oils were intended to trap contaminants on the walls of the engine, so they wouldn't circulate internally. Back when Non-Detergent oils were popular, oil filters were not.

Detergent oils were designed to keep contaminants in s̶u̶s̶p̶e̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ solution, where they would be picked up by the oil filters. The oil still sticks to the surfaces, that's how it provides lubrication. It's just the contaminants that don't stick anymore. The oil is still there, and it doesn't all run off when you shut down the engine... A film remains.

Detergent oils were not called detergent oils because they "cleaned" dirty engines. They were called detergent because (with an oil filter) they could keep themselves clean and prevent clean engines from becoming dirty.



Last edited by AirFrame on Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:12 am 
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AirFrame wrote:
Detergent oils were designed to keep contaminants in suspension, where they would be picked up by the oil filters.

Well that ain't right... there are no contaminants in any oil filter that I've seen recently, other than a few flakes of carbon. The detergent action is about keeping the contaminants dissolved in the oil, not as suspended solids.


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 Post subject: Re: to inhibit?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:21 am 
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photofly wrote:
AirFrame wrote:
Detergent oils were designed to keep contaminants in suspension, where they would be picked up by the oil filters.

Well that ain't right... there are no contaminants in any oil filter that I've seen recently, other than a few flakes of carbon. The detergent action is about keeping the contaminants dissolved in the oil, not as suspended solids.

Sorry, you're right, I said "in suspension," but I meant "in solution," ie. dissolved.

Still - particles do get carried out to the filter (as the flakes of carbon do) where they wouldn't necessarily be carried out with a non-detergent oil in an old engine with no filter.



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