Upgrade times and pay.

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, Sulako, North Shore

Message
Author
infiniteregulus
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:46 am

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#51 Post by infiniteregulus » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:24 pm

Aren't there a bazillion open 320FO spots right now though?
---------- ADS -----------

Sharklasers
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#52 Post by Sharklasers » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:15 pm

With the scheduled growth and a lot of the Airbuses sticking around i don't think you will see any 320'FO reductions in YVR or YYZ. I think enough people will bid the left seat from that position to avoid them.
---------- ADS -----------

mmm..bacon
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:19 pm

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#53 Post by mmm..bacon » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:06 pm

RVR6000 wrote: 3 Asia’s a month you’re done in 9-10 days. Becomes more of a part-time job.
I'm thinking that even 3 a month could be somewhat of a drag? Up at 0700 local home time, off to the airport, leave at noon for a ?15?hour flight, check into hotel at 0400 body time, and try to sleep. Wake up 4 hours later, at 0-dark thirty local time, and try to keep yourself occupied. Nap for a while at lunchtime body time, and then check in for the return flight leaving at 1500ish local time, or 2200 body time. Pull a 15 hour return, keeping yourself awake all night, and then most of the next day when you get home.
3 days - easy stuff, until you think that you've just done pretty much two all-nighters, and will need the better part of the next four days to get your body back to normal before you go and do it all over again...

or am I out to lunch on this?
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
pilotbzh
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 542
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:33 am
Location: yyz

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#54 Post by pilotbzh » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:16 am

mmm..bacon wrote:
RVR6000 wrote: 3 Asia’s a month you’re done in 9-10 days. Becomes more of a part-time job.
I'm thinking that even 3 a month could be somewhat of a drag? Up at 0700 local home time, off to the airport, leave at noon for a ?15?hour flight, check into hotel at 0400 body time, and try to sleep. Wake up 4 hours later, at 0-dark thirty local time, and try to keep yourself occupied. Nap for a while at lunchtime body time, and then check in for the return flight leaving at 1500ish local time, or 2200 body time. Pull a 15 hour return, keeping yourself awake all night, and then most of the next day when you get home.
3 days - easy stuff, until you think that you've just done pretty much two all-nighters, and will need the better part of the next four days to get your body back to normal before you go and do it all over again...

or am I out to lunch on this?
Nope, long haul flights are hard on you're sleep, looks good on paper.....
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
Anticyclone
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:50 am
Location: Nothern Hemisphere

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#55 Post by Anticyclone » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:34 am

Any min PIC time required for upgrades or just seniority based??

Take good care.
---------- ADS -----------

The Raven
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:37 pm

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#56 Post by The Raven » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:50 am

mmm..bacon wrote:
RVR6000 wrote: 3 Asia’s a month you’re done in 9-10 days. Becomes more of a part-time job.
I'm thinking that even 3 a month could be somewhat of a drag? Up at 0700 local home time, off to the airport, leave at noon for a ?15?hour flight, check into hotel at 0400 body time, and try to sleep. Wake up 4 hours later, at 0-dark thirty local time, and try to keep yourself occupied. Nap for a while at lunchtime body time, and then check in for the return flight leaving at 1500ish local time, or 2200 body time. Pull a 15 hour return, keeping yourself awake all night, and then most of the next day when you get home.
3 days - easy stuff, until you think that you've just done pretty much two all-nighters, and will need the better part of the next four days to get your body back to normal before you go and do it all over again...

or am I out to lunch on this?
Out to lunch? Nope. You're right on.

Having said that, when I was young it was not a problem. As I got older and closer to retirement I found the long-haul flying a lot more difficult to handle. I'm retired now and loving it, but I still have a few friends that are over 60 boasting that they are only flying 9 days a month. I don't think their days off are quality time. Too much of it is spent on recovery.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
sanjet
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 761
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:54 am

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#57 Post by sanjet » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:55 am

Anticyclone wrote:Any min PIC time required for upgrades or just seniority based??

Take good care.
Like all initial upgrades at AC, you must go through an evaluation process before being released as captain.

Having some actual PIC 705 experience will obviously help you practically speaking...
---------- ADS -----------

RVR6000
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 324
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:25 pm

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#58 Post by RVR6000 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:01 am

mmm..bacon wrote:
RVR6000 wrote: 3 Asia’s a month you’re done in 9-10 days. Becomes more of a part-time job.
I'm thinking that even 3 a month could be somewhat of a drag? Up at 0700 local home time, off to the airport, leave at noon for a ?15?hour flight, check into hotel at 0400 body time, and try to sleep. Wake up 4 hours later, at 0-dark thirty local time, and try to keep yourself occupied. Nap for a while at lunchtime body time, and then check in for the return flight leaving at 1500ish local time, or 2200 body time. Pull a 15 hour return, keeping yourself awake all night, and then most of the next day when you get home.
3 days - easy stuff, until you think that you've just done pretty much two all-nighters, and will need the better part of the next four days to get your body back to normal before you go and do it all over again...

or am I out to lunch on this?
You're not out to lunch, it helps if you can fall a sleep in the crew bunks. I believe you get 2 - 3 hour rest on a 14-15 hour flight.
---------- ADS -----------

rudder
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1497
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#59 Post by rudder » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:45 pm

If you add up waking up, driving to work, flight duty time, customs on arrival, transport to layover hotel (and all of that in reverse for the flight back) the 15 hour duty period will be closer to 20-22 hours of wake time before an opportunity to get R.E.M. sleep. Makes a non-augment 8 hour night flight to Europe look like a walk in the park.

6 times per month? Over 70 times per year? That will take its toll. Especially when the grey hair arrives.

The best part of AC is that pilots can pick their plane and therefore pick the style of flying that works for them individually. But you sure see a lot of puffy eyes leaving the terminals.....
---------- ADS -----------

altiplano
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2463
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#60 Post by altiplano » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:32 pm

I did the RP position for a while.

There can be some challenges on the long range stuff, but once (if) you get into a routine it's way better than all night Atlantic crossings with 2 guys or even transcon redeyes... and the 16-20 day schedules some guys here are working.

In fact I found a schedule of double augmented 3-day Asia pairings to be the best I ever felt of any of the positions I've done at AC. With 6-7 hours in the bunk you get a pretty good sleep in even on flights you are working the back side of the clock. Some guys have difficulty, but for the most part I could sleep reasonably well. Lots of time off for recovery and staying ahead of the stresses that build up when you're away...
---------- ADS -----------

JBI
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 673
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:21 am
Location: YYZ / LGA

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#61 Post by JBI » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:41 pm

altiplano wrote:I did the RP position for a while.

There can be some challenges on the long range stuff, but once (if) you get into a routine it's way better than all night Atlantic crossings with 2 guys or even transcon redeyes... and the 16-20 day schedules some guys here are working.

In fact I found a schedule of double augmented 3-day Asia pairings to be the best I ever felt of any of the positions I've done at AC. With 6-7 hours in the bunk you get a pretty good sleep in even on flights you are working the back side of the clock. Some guys have difficulty, but for the most part I could sleep reasonably well. Lots of time off for recovery and staying ahead of the stresses that build up when you're away...
You basically read my mind on the post I had in draft by answering the question already :D :prayer: , but I'll ask anyway:

Question for the folks who have done various types of long-haul/back of the clock flying. Did you find it harder doing:
a-a few 5 hour YVR-YYZ narrow body Red-eyes with 14-16 total days a month flying?
b-the 6-9 hour Trans Atlantic red-eyes with slightly less flying a month?
c-or, the extra long haul Asia/ME with an RP for 9-10 days a month?

I don't particularly have a preference - was just curious. While the extra long haul stuff would seem to mess with your body clock the most, there seems to be more of an opportunity to rest while in the A/C and more time to recover in between flights.
---------- ADS -----------

altiplano
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2463
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#62 Post by altiplano » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:51 pm

d) the a/b mixed schedule - 20 days of transcon redeyes and 2 pilot western Europe trips. month after month after month...

That's the worst schedule and most fatigued I've ever felt my entire career.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
'97 Tercel
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:19 pm

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#63 Post by '97 Tercel » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:40 pm

So I've heard new hires are being told that if they don't have any jet time in the last 2 years they can't bid for the 737. (Because AC doesn't want to do circuits with them?)

Anyone know more about this??
---------- ADS -----------

JBI
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 673
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:21 am
Location: YYZ / LGA

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#64 Post by JBI » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:47 am

'97 Tercel wrote:So I've heard new hires are being told that if they don't have any jet time in the last 2 years they can't bid for the 737. (Because AC doesn't want to do circuits with them?)

Anyone know more about this??
The new AC Max SIM has only been certified by Transport Canada as Level C at the moment. For some reason this requires previous jet time - not sure all the specifics and timelines regarding SIM certification; apparently its expected to be certified to Level D in the future.
---------- ADS -----------

zipper
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 5:52 am

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#65 Post by zipper » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:10 am

When I log into the Air Canada careers website and look at my jobs it shows the pilot one as 'Accepting Submissions'. Nothing for pilots on the main page though. Anyone have an insight?
---------- ADS -----------

Level Change
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:43 am

Re: Upgrade times and pay.

#66 Post by Level Change » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:18 am

Spent 7 years on the 777 doing Asia. Primarily HKG and PVG. Not really an issue for me sleep wise. At TOC I would be in the bunk for a three hour nap, fly for three hours and then back into the bunk for another 3 hour nap before coming back to the flight deck. The first few months took a little getting used to but generally, I loved it. Flights to Asia leave in the day time vs Europe leaving later at night. Six hours of sleep coming back home and 9 days per month. It was the best part time job in Canada in my opinion. Four guys makes for multiple resources in the flight deck during ground operations. Too much of anything however becomes a bit boring. One nice thing at AC is that you have a variety of positions to choose from throughout your career and one person's heaven can be another's hell. So not everyone is vying for the same spot.

On the narrow body side, you are often doing multiple legs through the same frontal systems, much more time on the ground spent de icing, dealing with incompetent station turnarounds and generally much less productive. Also a good assortment of red eyes. No extra crew members to provide assistance when the workload gets high. If you are junior, plan on 16 days a month at work. However, if you like flying and dealing with challenges vs sitting around doing hourly fuel checks, then it is a good gig.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. If you commute however, a long haul position is a no brainer.

As far as upgrades or available positions, pretty much anything is available at the bottom of all equipment. This is because life at the bottom is very very different from life at the top. The only thing in Canada that is not taxable these days is your time off and more and more people are realizing this, so wont bid a position until they can be assured of having a life. However, some will chase airplanes or money, no matter what. As an example, take the 737 Max. Number one Captain has a 400 series seniority number vs the bottom guy, almost 3000 numbers junior.

This is one thing I love about AC at the moment. Lots of variety and choices. The biggest stress is " what should I bid? " Nice problem to have in my opinion.
---------- ADS -----------

Post Reply

Return to “Air Canada”