26 Oct 2017 - 2 dead after plane crash near Springbank Airport, west of Calgary

[cncpc]

https://globalnews.ca/news/3826632/fire ... f-calgary/

Anyone with information regarding this investigation is asked to contact the Cochrane RCMP detachment at 403-851-8000 or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477 (TIPS).

I don't recall ever seeing a request like that before.

[shamrock104]

"Circuit right away" is definitely not a normal request. Lets not all jump to conclusions and remember that this is a public forum.
Condolences to all those involved.

[co-joe]

...

If you ask about refuelling because you think a misfuel with jet fuel may have caused this, that is a good point. If you think it ran out of fuel, that is obviously not a good point.

http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-r ... 9q0181.pdf

http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article ... ilderment/

Both involved flights long enough that improper fuel selector position led to fuel exhaustion from one wing. This doesn't seem likely because you'd feel the aircraft getting heavy on one side whereas the 2 reports above the plane was on auto pilot which masked the issue, and I doubt a flight traning machine would have had an autopilot engaged.

What else causes dual engine fail in a twin? Jet fuel would certainly do it.

Terribly sorry for the loss of life. It has been a bad year at springbank. Hopefully there is something to learn from this tragedy.

[cncpc]

http://www.kxly.com/news/local-news/nts ... /176578773

The behaviour does not seem inconsistent with a wrong fuel explanation or the transmission.

I've looked at quite a number of media accident reports in western Canada, and some from Global, and I haven't found one where the RCMP are receiving reports or whatever from people, and Crimestoppers is being used.

[cncpc]

There is a short bit on the student here.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary/20 ... ified.html

[GyvAir]

https://globalnews.ca/news/3826632/fire ... f-calgary/

Anyone with information regarding this investigation is asked to contact the Cochrane RCMP detachment at 403-851-8000 or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477 (TIPS).

I don't recall ever seeing a request like that before.

That looks like the reporter just copy and pasted the wrong stock story footer onto the end of the piece.

[yhz41]

Jet fuel is highly unlikely as SATC has their own fuel tank on their property and their own ramp staff.

[cncpc]

Jet fuel is highly unlikely as SATC has their own fuel tank on their property and their own ramp staff.

Ok, thanks. It is highly unlikely knowing that.

[cncpc]

https://globalnews.ca/news/3826632/fire ... f-calgary/

Anyone with information regarding this investigation is asked to contact the Cochrane RCMP detachment at 403-851-8000 or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477 (TIPS).

I don't recall ever seeing a request like that before.

That looks like the reporter just copy and pasted the wrong stock story footer onto the end of the piece.

No, not that. The RCMP made that statement as while they await the TSB, they do try and gain eyewitness info as soon as possible so it is fresh in the witnesses mind. The Crime Stoppers thing was an anomaly.

[GyvAir]

Either way, it just looks like copy and pasting on autopilot to me.

[pdw]

The Crime Stoppers thing was an anomaly.

They might use the same office for that area ..

[cncpc]

Either way, it just looks like copy and pasting on autopilot to me.

No, the journalist went to the RCMP and asked why they were investigating. Because it was possible they suspected something criminal. And their reply was along the lines I posted above. A lot of accidents are in the middle of nowhere with no witnesses. This one took place with a lot of witnesses, and it could well be that some have something that could contribute to understanding this sad thing. The Mounties in these circumstances are the first line of investigation. Why not? That's what they do for a living.

[photofly]

Why is the RCMP the front line here, and not the TSB? Is there a whiff of something criminal?

How does the RCMP divvy up its investigative responsibility with the TSB?

[Zaibatsu]

Emergency services have priority in a crash. Fire dept to put out fires and/or extricate survivors, EMS to render medical aid if able, and police and coroner to deal with fatalities. Except where the TSB needs to recover volatile evidence, they get last dibs at access to the crash.

Condolences.

[photofly]

Right.

But who is responsible for the investigation? TSB, unless there is suspicion of criminality, which is why it’s curious that the RCMP are appealing for witnesses.

[GyvAir]

I skimmed through reports of this accident from over a dozen different new outlets the other day. Only two (including the one linked in the original post) had a request for witnesses or information. Only the one mentioned Crime Stoppers.

[plhought]

I imagine the TSB will frequently call of the RCMP to help gather witnesses and statements. It's usually not an admission of some criminality being involved. It's rather that the RCMP has resources (media relationships, awareness, phone lines, staff) available to consolidate information and witnesses. Their staff are sworn officers and therefore should have all the training and expertise in conducting interviews/gathering statements. Perhaps they then get passed on to the TSB or put in touch with TSB directly.

RCMP also has a remit to investigate a death no matter the circumstance. They may take a back seat in an investigation (in cases like this) but there is a case # and personnel will be assigned to it.

You'd be surprised how many crack-pots will call these "witness" lines as well. Having the RCMP help keeps what is already a relatively lean organization like the TSB from being inundated with useless calls.

[cncpc]

Why is the RCMP the front line here, and not the TSB? Is there a whiff of something criminal?

How does the RCMP divvy up its investigative responsibility with the TSB?

I think in this case the Mounties were being utilized to get people's memories as soon as possible.

Does anyone have any idea of the vertical profile of this flight after liftoff? It is reported as being low, and at "100 feet" when the nose dropped. Any idea if it made it to 500 feet, or higher, then descended, or just struggled all the way on the departure.

[cncpc]

I imagine the TSB will frequently call of the RCMP to help gather witnesses and statements. It's usually not an admission of some criminality being involved. It's rather that the RCMP has resources (media relationships, awareness, phone lines, staff) available to consolidate information and witnesses. Their staff are sworn officers and therefore should have all the training and expertise in conducting interviews/gathering statements. Perhaps they then get passed on to the TSB or put in touch with TSB directly.

RCMP also has a remit to investigate a death no matter the circumstance. They may take a back seat in an investigation (in cases like this) but there is a case # and personnel will be assigned to it.

You'd be surprised how many crack-pots will call these "witness" lines as well. Having the RCMP help keeps what is already a relatively lean organization like the TSB from being inundated with useless calls.

I used to work bases at Vernon and Quesnel. Asked by the RCMP to go to an accident at Barkerville and one at Lumby, just to give them an idea what might be important. Wherever there is a death, the RCMP go there as part of their job. And I suppose they investigate possible foul play to some extent.

Ah, I see you said some of that already.

It is unusual to see the request in a media outlet. They are at the site, the witnesses are probably all there for something like that. So maybe looking for someone who knows something that happened before.

[CpnCrunch]

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/2/c ... d2017C5009

UPDATE: TSB Report#A17W0172: The Springbank Air Training College Piper PA 34-200T Seneca II, registered C-GCCM, departed Calgary Springbank (CYBW) Runway 17 on a final training flight prior to the student's multi-engine rating flight test. There was an instructor and student on board. The aircraft did not climb above 200 feet nor accelerate while on the runway heading. The aircraft rolled to the left entering a steep left turn and collided with terrain. There was a post-crash fire, and the two occupants sustained fatal injuries, the aircraft was destroyed.