Two union drives

[FenceSitter]

Tomorrow is a big day. I suspect it is the day when the first domino falls and is also the first true spike in the coffin of PACT/WEA. Good luck to the ladies and gentlemen who put such hard work into bringing real representation to the heart and soul of WJ. By noon tomorrow I hope you have ALPA to stand in front of and behind you. I don't know if the FAs will be next but seeing the strength that an international union will bring to the table will lessen the fear of CUPE. Once the WPFAA drive decides to follow the lead of the pilots and let the professionals take over, those FAs will certainly certify as well. RD, the new re-hire, is a good man. He would have been able to give WJ another 5-10 years of a union-free cabin...but his hiring is far too late to stem the tide of unionization.
Time to do right by the employees again. ALPA.....YES!!!!! WPFAA.....YES!!!!!

[RustyDeuce]

The people behind WPFAA are a bunch of dopes. Passionate sure but that's about it.

[Bede]

Squid,
Employees can't file grievances - the union does that. Just because an employee complains to the union doesn't mean that they will file a grievance.

[BE20 Driver]

)
A grievance only concerns violations of an employee's rights under the CBA. If an employee's grievance is successful, the board orders the corrective action.

This is exactly correct. If the original date of hire/One list is voted in by the majority of pilots and is enshrined in the contract moving forward, you can not file a "no fair" grievance. It would also be hard to prove to a judge or arbitrator that you were hired with the one list as a condition of employment, were ok with those conditions of employment for the last four years but all of a sudden decided you were wronged now that ALPA comes in.

[NewCommercialPilot]

We shall see, BE20. I've made the Breach Of Contract arguments too many times before to repeat it again.

Cheers

[FenceSitter]

The people behind WPFAA are a bunch of dopes. Passionate sure but that's about it.

I disagree. I think they are smarter than they are passionate with perhaps one exception where the brains and passion may both be lacking (not the President, that's for sure. She leads that drive with her heart and soul...big respect for that). That said, it does seem that they are no longer the only players pushing to certify the FAs. it would appear that CUPE has thrown their hat in the ring again if word out of YYZ is to be believed. Several FAs have received calls asking for them to put their names out there for contact when the website goes up later this month.
I don't think WJ needs to worry about this drive unless an appetite for CUPE develops in YYC and YVR, or that they shrink the base size in short order of both bases. This new CUPE drive seems to have been initiated by YYZ FAs. The WPFAA always has had a hard time getting traction out there. Do these two drives cannibalize each other as the WPFAA previously ate the last CUPE drive? Does the existence of two concurrent drives in the inflight department leave greater room for the company to continue down it's path of morale breaking ignorance (no fault to the company, the fault lies completely with PACT/WEA and it's subgroups)?
Interesting for sure but the WPFAA has some serious decisions to make...and soon. It would seem that the WPFAA has done the groundbreaking work for the larger unions. They have come in and moved boulders, cut down trees, cut grass, and poured a foundation. The big boys will take advantage of the work the WPFAA have done, that they could never have done regardless of finances and other resources. CUPE will try to come in and that would not be possible without the WPFAA. The WPFAA has decisions, but WJ has a serious choice to make. To think that the FAAB/WCCA situation is infinitely tenable is completely foolish. Any person who thinks that the WJPA was going to last forever, FAAB/WCCA is going to last forever, RezVoice is going to last forever.....etc, is delusional and should stay away from sharp objects when awake.
WJ will get the union they deserve. The employees will simply get a union. If WJ would rather deal with their own people, then the WPFAA is the wise choice. If WJ would rather deal with an outside party, then CUPE is the wise choice. Regardless, they have to make a choice. They have shown that they have chosen to risk their future on their ability to manipulate an employee group into thinking that the status quo is awesome and the PACT/WEA unicorns fart rainbows. They somehow got 55% of the front end to give those unicorns another chance. Well, the unicorn didn't exist and no more rainbow farts (PRAC committee recommendations) were going to happen. When those recommendations were not implemented, WJ gave that 5% back to the voting group. With this blind and seemingly rushed implementation of the ULCC I figure that gave back another 15%. The company is now dealing with a strong union that will not be pushed and will not break.
Are those people in positions of authority so stupid so as to make the same decision twice? It would seem so. In the recent MOA between FAAB/WCCA and mgmt there is a conspicuous absence of the CEO's signature. Making arrangements that they have no desire of keeping (not that the signature would make it worth anything more than a roll of toilet paper anyway, but I digress) to placate an employee group. CUPE will take advantage of this. The statement above...this is why I disagree. They are both smart and passionate but smarter than they are passionate. The WPFAA will likely not use this to stir up emotions and passion...that's what CUPE will do.
Regardless, certification is coming to the inflight department. It's simply a matter of whether the company will repeat the mistakes of the past and fight (likely) or learn from their mistakes and do their best to pave the way for a smooth transition from no representation to full and compliant representation.

[FenceSitter]

The title says two union drives and there look to be many more than that. Bets of luck to the Encore group. I hope that their "resounding majority" infers that they have greater than 50% and that they can apply for cardcheck denying the company the opportunity to play their games. The voting process seems to only allow for the company to peddle more fear. If you have more than 50%, then you already have the voice of the majority...good luck!!
CSAs,and FAs (at both airlines) look to be being spoken to by the big boys now...maintenance too. No more independent 'westjetty' pseudo-unions...just the real deal. Would it not have been easier for the company to deal with an independent union rather than CUPE or any of the other big guys? I suppose they will get the union they deserve....

[Victory]

Or they'll just start a new airline. Oh wait.

[brooks]

I think they hired too many Jazz guys.

[Smitty]

The title says two union drives and there look to be many more than that. Bets of luck to the Encore group. I hope that their "resounding majority" infers that they have greater than 50% and that they can apply for cardcheck denying the company the opportunity to play their games. The voting process seems to only allow for the company to peddle more fear. If you have more than 50%, then you already have the voice of the majority...good luck!!
CSAs,and FAs (at both airlines) look to be being spoken to by the big boys now...maintenance too. No more independent 'westjetty' pseudo-unions...just the real deal. Would it not have been easier for the company to deal with an independent union rather than CUPE or any of the other big guys? I suppose they will get the union they deserve....

The vote still happens regardless of the number of cards signed.

[FurHat]

The vote still happens regardless of the number of cards signed.

No vote will happen. The law changed back. If they have 50% +1 cards signed they get instant certification. I find it very unlikely they would file cards so early without being sure of having 50%.

[fish4life]

no it doesn't over 50% is auto cert

[TheStig]

MONTREAL (Reuters) - The chief executive of Canada’s WestJet Airlines said on Tuesday that negotiations to reach a first labor contract with pilots, which began this year, will be protracted and he does not expect a deal next year.
FILE PHOTO - President and Chief Executive Officer of Westjet Airlines Gregg Saretsky addresses shareholders during the company's annual general meeting in Calgary, Alberta, May 7, 2013. REUTERS/Todd Korol

“It’s going to take a long time,” CEO Gregg Saretsky told a Toronto transportation conference. “It is unlikely that there will be an agreement in 2018.”

Pilots from WestJet’s mainline and regional affiliate recently agreed to join the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) and separate unions are trying to organize the carrier’s other employees, including flight attendants.

Calgary-headquartered WestJet, Canada’s second-largest airline, had previously been the last carrier in North America with non-unionized pilots, Saretsky said.

“There’s a certain inevitability,” he said of the pilots joining ALPA.

The union campaigns at WestJet have raised some concerns among analysts about the prospect of higher labor costs at a time when the company is launching ultra-low-cost carrier Swoop, which is expected to start flights in June 2018.

Saretsky said he expected the first pilot contract to be “cost-neutral,” in terms of salaries and benefits, adding, “I‘m not expecting there to be any sizeable impact ... because we were paying our pilots very well.”

Well there you have it, your new contract is going to take a long time to negotitate and isn't going to pay you better (because you're already paid well). He just keeps finding new ways to endear himself to his pilots doesn't he? Certainly didn't seem to think that joining ALPA was inevitable before it happened.

[Alcoholism]

It will take as long as it takes to get Swoop going plus a day for there to be a contract with the union to ensure the substandard conditions ... bank on it.

[Smitty]

You boy really need to keep up on events.

Bill C525 passed without the amendment allowing auto certification.

"Bill C-525 requires that the certification and decertification of a union as a bargaining agent under these Acts be achieved by a mandatory secret ballot vote–based majority."

Read the bill for yourself....

https://lop.parl.ca/About/Parliament/Le ... ibrary_prb

[Mostly Harmless]

I've said it before... this is the strategy. The longer Greg drags out the talks, the more bonus money he collects. That's all he cares about. If I were him, it's all I'd care about. He'll do a mike drop on his way out the door dragging a giant golden parachute behind him. His resume is being shopped all over the globe right now and when he gets a better offer he's gone. Until then, hoard cash like a squirrel preparing for winter.

[FurHat]

You boy really need to keep up on events.

Bill C525 passed without the amendment allowing auto certification.

"Bill C-525 requires that the certification and decertification of a union as a bargaining agent under these Acts be achieved by a mandatory secret ballot vote–based majority."

Read the bill for yourself....

https://lop.parl.ca/About/Parliament/Le ... ibrary_prb

Looks like you need to brush up on your reading comprehension.

Bill C525 was the one that was amended by Bill C4. You quoted the Background section of the bill that described the old law.

2.2 Parliamentary Employment And Staff Relations Act (clauses 5 To 7)

Clauses 5 to 7 of Bill C-4 amend the Parliamentary Employment and Staff Relations Act (PESRA) to reinstate certification and decertification procedures as they were before the coming into force of Bill C-525.

Clause 5 replaces section 25 of the PESRA, which outlines the procedure for certification of an employee organization as a bargaining unit. It eliminates the two step process created by Bill C-525, whereby the organization applying for certification had to show membership evidence for 40% of the employees, followed by a mandatory secret ballot representation vote.

New section 25 requires the PSLREB to certify an employee organization as bargaining agent if, among other requirements, it has received an application for certification from the employee organization and it is satisfied that a majority of the employees in the unit wish to be represented by the employee organization.

Clause 6 amends section 26 of the PESRA. In particular, it adds section 26(2), which gives the PSLREB sole discretion to direct that a representation vote be taken if it wishes to satisfy itself that a majority of employees in the unit want to be represented by the organization applying for certification. Bill C-525 repealed that section, because it made the secret ballot representation vote mandatory.

Clause 7 replaces sections 29(1) and 29(3) to 29(5) of the PESRA. Section 29 outlines the procedure for revocation of certification. The amendments brought by clause 7 to sections 29(1) and 29(3) reinstate the requirement that, to apply for a revocation of certification, a person must claim to represent a majority of employees in the bargaining unit. Bill C-525 reduced that threshold to 40% of employees. Clause 7 also amends section 29(4) to allow the PSLREB to use its discretion in ordering the taking of a representation vote to determine if a majority of employees no longer wish to be represented by the organization. Bill C-525 made that representation vote mandatory.

Clause 7 amends section 29(5) of the PESRA to reflect the fact that the secret ballot representation vote is no longer mandatory. New section 29(5) requires that the PSLREB revoke certification if it is satisfied that a majority of employees in the unit no longer wish to be represented by the organization.

[NewCommercialPilot]

I've said it before... this is the strategy. The longer Greg drags out the talks, the more bonus money he collects. That's all he cares about. If I were him, it's all I'd care about. He'll do a mike drop on his way out the door dragging a giant golden parachute behind him. His resume is being shopped all over the globe right now and when he gets a better offer he's gone. Until then, hoard cash like a squirrel preparing for winter.

Where did you say it before?

[Mostly Harmless]

Where did you say it before?

Other threads in here. I can see if I can dig it up if you would like.

[NewCommercialPilot]

Where did you say it before?

Other threads in here. I can see if I can dig it up if you would like.

That'd be great!