'shortage of pilots'or not??

[avpride]

Will the PML still exist in 5 years? There very well could be no more PML, no OTS, everybody is in the same application stream. It is already fairly close to that as the last PML was a guaranteed interview only, and nothing beyond that. Even that is a bit of a joke. AC will always interview qualified candidates. If you work for Jazz and don't meet AC's requirements, you still won't get hired.

That is an odd statement under any scenario - "If you don't meet AC's requirement, you still won't get hired" - would you expect any company to hire you if you don't meet their requirements?

[goingnowherefast]

It was a statement tailored to people who think the PML is any sort of promise. See the thread in the AC forum "express vs mainline pilots" (or something to that effect).

AC interviews qualified OTS applicants. AC interviews qualified PML applicants. The only actual difference is OTS guys aren't guaranteed the interview. There aren't different hiring requirements for PML vs OTS applicants

[dhc#]

Any educated guesses as to hiring #'s for 2018 for (AC, WJ, Jazz, SR, Georgian, Encore, Porter, Transat, Sunwing etc) ??

[fish4life]

pure guess but I'm thinking about 800 "new" positions will be created in 2018.

AC sounds like they need 4-500 in 2018
WJ has 787's coming and will need probably 150 pilots to start to gear up for that / organic growth / FDT rules changing
Sunwing and Transat will probably need 50 each to account for some mix of expat attrition / retirement / FDT rules
Swoop will need to add pilots so lets say 50 there, they might be coming from current WJ pilots in which case you will need to add 50 to the WJ number.

jazz, porter, encore/ other express carriers don't seem to have much growth planned so their hiring numbers will be entirely dependent on how many of the above carriers take from them, lets say 100 new positions for FDT rules / the odd retirement.

The above is just new pilot positions in my guess, WJ may need to hire 400 because AC takes 250 but that in reality just moves the new positions around it doesn't create new ones. Trying to predict these numbers is a guess as it is, trying to predict how the movement between companies will work is near impossible.

[BE20 Driver]

I don't have any firm numbers but Encore only has a couple more deliveries and then they are at the 45 Q400 mark. That would only leave a couple more ground schools at 10 people each to cover crewing requirements.

Mainline plans no hiring for the first half of 2018. I don't believe that there is a prediction beyond that point. Later in the year the music starts up and people will likely start shuffling around to prepare for Swoop (only 2 tails for 2018?), and the first of the 787's (in 2019). That'll drive some hiring on the bottom end but I don't have any numbers to back that up right now.

[7507]

When Porter advertises they need 1000 hours but will take lower time due to other "experience" how low will they go? Has anybody gotten hired with less than 1000 hours?
Just curious.

[C.W.E.]

Why should a pilot need a thousand hours to be a F.O. on any airplane?

[RocksAndProps]

Is anyone aware of any regional actually having to cancel flights due to lack of available crew?

I heard Porter canceled something like 2% of their flights this past summer due to lack of pilots.

[digits_]

Ads like these make me happy:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 7&t=121599

90k/year for a 1500 hour Caravan pilot. Nice to see progress is being made. I hope they find a great candidate!

[VIflight]

Ads like these make me happy:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 7&t=121599

90k/year for a 1500 hour Caravan pilot. Nice to see progress is being made. I hope they find a great candidate!

McMurray Aviation has been paying salaries like this for a long while.

[chipmunk]

Is anyone aware of any regional actually having to cancel flights due to lack of available crew?

I heard Porter canceled something like 2% of their flights this past summer due to lack of pilots.

Jazz also canceled flights the past summer due to lack of pilots, somewhere around the 5% mark is the rumour on the street.

[Meatservo]

Why should a pilot need a thousand hours to be a F.O. on any airplane?

They don't NEED a thousand hours. But the first thousand hours of a pilot's career is where he or she learns the most. Beleive it or not, there is a level of experience prior to which a new pilot is often a liability who increases the captain's workload. The point at which this turns around varies according to the individual, and what kind of flying they have been doing, but by 1000 hours if you haven't found a way to make yourself useful, there is no hope for you anyway. I guess some airlines would prefer you get that particular phase in your flying life taken care of elsewhere.

Of course, whether they deserve to expect that with what they are offering to pay- different story.

The "perfect" F.O. would be one who is every bit as skilled, mature, and knowledgeable as the captain, but who has no ambition to BE the captain. Since this type of person occurs only rarely in this world, we have to set our expectations at a reasonable level.

When I had 10 hours (OK 12) I soloed, and I figured that I had pretty much worked out "how to be a pilot" and all I needed was some brushing up.

When I had 100 hours, I was past the part in my college program where they keep trying to kick you out, and figured I had pretty much worked out "how to be a pilot", and I found it hard to believe that people with only 10 hours (OK 12) were allowed to fly a plane by themselves.

When I had 1000 hours, I was flying a DeHavilland Otter, and I supposed that the world contained very few actual surprises anymore, and I figured I had pretty much worked out "how to be a pilot" and that I was well on my way to being the world's greatest living pilot, and I couldn't imagine how anyone with only 100 hours was allowed to fly a plane by themselves.

When I had 10,000 hours, I was teaching new graduates how to do their jobs in the right seat of a turbine twin, and I imagined that the world contained very few actual surprises anymore, except for the astonishing feats of my F.O.s, who were all trying to kill me, and I figured I had pretty much worked out "how to be a pilot" and I couldn't imagine how anyone with only 1000 hours was allowed to fly a plane by themselves.

Now, I'm not going to tell you how many hours I have, mostly because I got too lazy to fill out my logbook at some point so I'm not sure myself. I fly a large transport-category turbojet, and I'm NOT allowed to fly it by myself. My F.O.s are actively keeping me alive, and even though I figure I have pretty much worked out "how to be a pilot", the world is still full of surprises, and I can't imagine how anyone with only 10,000 hours...

[TailwheelPilot]

The "perfect" F.O. would be one who is every bit as skilled, mature, and knowledgeable as the captain, but who has no ambition to BE the captain. Since this type of person occurs only rarely in this world, we have to set our expectations at a reasonable level.

If the pay was (almost) the same there would probably be lots of people willing to be a career F/O, especially if it was still far quicker to get to/near the top of the F/Os seniority wise. Almost as much pay, less responsibility, and you could bid for (and get) your desired base, schedule, fleet, etc sooner. The only problem would be if most people actually want less responsibility/better lifestyle and not enough people bid to be captains.

[dhc#]

Another report from the situation in the states...

http://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2017/1 ... years.html

[yycflyguy]

Why should a pilot need a thousand hours to be a F.O. on any airplane?

They don't NEED a thousand hours. But the first thousand hours of a pilot's career is where he or she learns the most. Beleive it or not, there is a level of experience prior to which a new pilot is often a liability who increases the captain's workload. The point at which this turns around varies according to the individual, and what kind of flying they have been doing, but by 1000 hours if you haven't found a way to make yourself useful, there is no hope for you anyway. I guess some airlines would prefer you get that particular phase in your flying life taken care of elsewhere.

Of course, whether they deserve to expect that with what they are offering to pay- different story.

The "perfect" F.O. would be one who is every bit as skilled, mature, and knowledgeable as the captain, but who has no ambition to BE the captain. Since this type of person occurs only rarely in this world, we have to set our expectations at a reasonable level.

When I had 10 hours (OK 12) I soloed, and I figured that I had pretty much worked out "how to be a pilot" and all I needed was some brushing up.

When I had 100 hours, I was past the part in my college program where they keep trying to kick you out, and figured I had pretty much worked out "how to be a pilot", and I found it hard to believe that people with only 10 hours (OK 12) were allowed to fly a plane by themselves.

When I had 1000 hours, I was flying a DeHavilland Otter, and I supposed that the world contained very few actual surprises anymore, and I figured I had pretty much worked out "how to be a pilot" and that I was well on my way to being the world's greatest living pilot, and I couldn't imagine how anyone with only 100 hours was allowed to fly a plane by themselves.

When I had 10,000 hours, I was teaching new graduates how to do their jobs in the right seat of a turbine twin, and I imagined that the world contained very few actual surprises anymore, except for the astonishing feats of my F.O.s, who were all trying to kill me, and I figured I had pretty much worked out "how to be a pilot" and I couldn't imagine how anyone with only 1000 hours was allowed to fly a plane by themselves.

Now, I'm not going to tell you how many hours I have, mostly because I got too lazy to fill out my logbook at some point so I'm not sure myself. I fly a large transport-category turbojet, and I'm NOT allowed to fly it by myself. My F.O.s are actively keeping me alive, and even though I figure I have pretty much worked out "how to be a pilot", the world is still full of surprises, and I can't imagine how anyone with only 10,000 hours...

Good post!

[spiderpilot1988]

Every 500 h wonder is applying to AC! I wonder how many accidents will we have if they start hiring low time pilots