GGN CRJ Captain

[Dark Helmet]

$72 an hour, minimum guaranteed is 70. Average block is around 85 hours. Overtime is available most of the time if you want it, time and a half kicks in after 90 hours.

Wow!!!! I made more than that flying right seat on the RJ at Jazz. Where the RJ job was 1000% better in ALL aspects.

Shamefull

That would make you an 11 year FO..... not sure that's a good argument

Respectfully gtanorth, much like a lot of your posts: incorrect.

I was there for less than 10 years. My last 2 years I did better than what was advertised above. Virtually with no OT (some NBG and high credit months over the summer)

That is a relevant argument as it had a much better job flying as an FO than a Georgian Capt did on the same equip. I could have held the left seat on the DH8 in my last year but stayed on the RJ for schedule and lifestyle. (it was a good enough job that I could actually do that, aint that cool?) Had I taken the Left seat, the pay would have literally blown that $72/hr out of the water. Schedule would have taken a hit but the conditions would have still been much better than what is offered at GGN.

I guess I could have also taken the DEC Capt job at GGN too You can probably guess why I never did.

At Jazz it was average 78-85/hr a month, usually around 80, 90 on high blocking months. 1.5 after 85 hours
OT at 1.5 for the whole pairing, like I said I hardly did any.
Typical month 10-15 days of flying. I think the CA had 12 gdos but I very seldom saw that few.
Great flying, nice decent layovers at very nice hotels in excellent locations.
Excellent Perdiems, Benefits, DB pension.
I can count on one hand how many times I had 3 MELs (yes 3 was the max).
Great crews, safe operation, never felt pressured from Management, OTP was good because it was a well run operation.
I was at 4 weeks Vac and 2 weeks stats. And we were able to take all of it, no shortages.

It was really good while it lasted, unfortunately those days on that machine are gone and it is shameful.

Sorry but I find it comical that people are posting the conditions for a GGN RJ CAPT as they are here and somehow think that is a good job. I sure hope it is better than advertised.

I am just calling it how I see it. Hopefully ALPA can create much needed improvements.

Good luck.

[iflyroads]

Also hasn't been posted on here but 10 GDOs a month. The senior guys enjoy more but the new hires tend to get just that.

[CRJDRVR]

Based on the "virtual reality" from GTA NORTH he is likely management

He is right about seniority, if you are will to work you will do bottom at the better than the top but stand-ups at 1/2 pay but the same amount of work as two flight days, and inside the training department where your deadhead paid at half block time in transit to places like PHX or CLT take a huge chunk of your possible pay

It is GDO of 10 days, some so get 11

9 stat days

Vacation is also an issue, you get 10 days after a year but you bid the year before, most never get them with lower seniority unless you sneak in a VAC or two in the monthly schedule

You do get the perk of accepting min rest of 10 hours for 2 credits. Draft is 6 credits or 1.5X

If you are looking for a schedule as a DEC, you will have ten days off a month but you have no idea of what you are doing until the 05:30 wake up call. This makes this job very difficult to commute without a YYZ crash pad

Per diem is about $1.90 CDN or the current USD exchange. There is no real cell phone repayment which will be needed for MOC calls so go with a good US plan like Telus or Wind. If you have exact call records you try and submit them as an expense but with all the OT, who has time when you are getting fitted for gold teeth?

No tips for shuttles and rest time starts 30 minutes after the cabin door is closed, not when you actually hit the hotel which means a short night in CMH.

As a DEC do not expect much help at CAE and the FO's will smell you out like sharks in the water... Be nice to them, when they upgrade, they will push you down on the schedule

[nightbird]

Jazz is a better operation than Georgian, also a more mature one. All the advances in the contract at Jazz didn't happened overnight, it is the result of decades of negotiations.
Financially you will be better by off at Georgian in the short term (lets say 3 to 4 year span) due to the fast upgrades.
Also it depends at what stage you are in your career. If you have a lot of jet pic time and you have the opportunity to go right seat at Jazz ( have they ever hired DEC) for $35k or DEC at Georgian for $75k where would you go? Taking into consideration that you're not gonna stay there for a long time. With all the opportunities today you would be crazy to make a regional a career job for many reasons.
Another thing is not everyone can work at Jazz, in my case I was flying for a 703 company that had way worst conditions than Georgian so when I was ready to apply to a regional I applied to all of them, basically every operator with a 705 machine and the first one to call was Air Georgian. Why would I say no to that and seat there waiting for Jazz or anyone else to call... What if that never happened or took another year or two. In those two theoretical years I gain some experience in a 705 jet including a significant amount of PIC time and was hired by a major airline which was the goal since the beginning so where I spent the last two years is irrelevant.
In my case I made more money in those two years than going to Jazz (because of the quick upgrade) and gain experience that would've been useful (Jet PIC vs Prop right seat) if I decided to go somewhere else.
So concluding Jazz is a better company with better pay and work conditions but not the best choice for everyone.

[gtanorth]

Wow!!!! I made more than that flying right seat on the RJ at Jazz. Where the RJ job was 1000% better in ALL aspects.

Shamefull

That would make you an 11 year FO..... not sure that's a good argument

Respectfully gtanorth, much like a lot of your posts: incorrect.

I was there for less than 10 years. My last 2 years I did better than what was advertised above. Virtually with no OT (some NBG and high credit months over the summer)

That is a relevant argument as it had a much better job flying as an FO than a Georgian Capt did on the same equip. I could have held the left seat on the DH8 in my last year but stayed on the RJ for schedule and lifestyle. (it was a good enough job that I could actually do that, aint that cool?) Had I taken the Left seat, the pay would have literally blown that $72/hr out of the water. Schedule would have taken a hit but the conditions would have still been much better than what is offered at GGN.

I guess I could have also taken the DEC Capt job at GGN too You can probably guess why I never did.

At Jazz it was average 78-85/hr a month, usually around 80, 90 on high blocking months. 1.5 after 85 hours
OT at 1.5 for the whole pairing, like I said I hardly did any.
Typical month 10-15 days
Great flying, nice decent layovers at very nice hotels in excellent locations.
Excellent Perdiems, Benefits, DB pension.
I can count on one hand how many times I had 3 MELs (yes 3 was the max).
Great crews, safe operation, never felt pressured from Management, OTP was good because it was a well run operation.
I was at 4 weeks Vac and 2 weeks stats. And we were able to take all of it, no shortages.

It was really good while it lasted, unfortunately those days on that machine are gone and it is shameful.

Sorry but I find it comical that people are posting the conditions for a GGN RJ CAPT as they are here and somehow think that is a good job. I sure hope it is better than advertised.

I am just calling it how I see it. Hopefully ALPA can create much needed improvements.

Good luck.

OK so you're an 10 year FO. Still don't think that's a very compelling argument - go to Jazz - be an FO for 10 years and you can make more than a GGN Capt day 1. Really OK if you think that is making an argument against GGN

[Dark Helmet]

OK so you're an 8 year FO but I call a bit of BS I think more like 10 year. Still don't think that's a very compelling argument - go to Jazz - be an FO for 10 years and you can make more than a GGN Capt day 1. Really OK if you think that is making an argument against GGN

Call BS all you want, the facts are accurate. Now I will concede that I am not familiar with how a pilot is paid at GGN. 72 x 85 = 6,120 x 12 = 73,440. Yup I did better than that...
I can also see you are not very familiar with the Jazz CA. Either way...

You would not go to Jazz and spend 8 years on the right seat nowadays, Upgrades are at 1.5 years I think. I have since moved on to greener pastures so I am not up on the specifics there.

My point (which I think you missed) was how BACKWARDS the AC Express job on the RJ has become over the last 5 years. How much worse it is today versus when I did that job.

Should someone want to go to GGN to fly an RJ be my guest. Would not be my first choice if I had jet time. Sunwing, Transat, Westjet, several good corporate outfits out there too. but each to their own.

For the record: In today's world, I would probably look at either Encore or Jazz for a regional job. Encore if you are looking at career progression to he Majors. Jazz if you are looking at long term employment at the regional level. But that is just me

[gtanorth]

OK so you're an 8 year FO but I call a bit of BS I think more like 10 year. Still don't think that's a very compelling argument - go to Jazz - be an FO for 10 years and you can make more than a GGN Capt day 1. Really OK if you think that is making an argument against GGN

Call BS all you want, the facts are accurate. Now I will concede that I am not familiar with how a pilot is paid at GGN. 72 x 85 = 6,120 x 12 = 73,440. Yup I did better than that...
I can also see you are not very familiar with the Jazz CA. Either way...

You would not go to Jazz and spend 8 years on the right seat nowadays, Upgrades are at 1.5 years I think. I have since moved on to greener pastures so I am not up on the specifics there.

My point (which I think you missed) was how BACKWARDS the AC Express job on the RJ has become over the last 5 years. How much worse it is today versus when I did that job.

Should someone want to go to GGN to fly an RJ be my guest. Would not be my first choice if I had jet time. Sunwing, Transat, Westjet, several good corporate outfits out there too. but each to their own.

For the record: In today's world, I would probably look at either Encore or Jazz for a regional job. Encore if you are looking at career progression to he Majors. Jazz if you are looking at long term employment at the regional level. But that is just me

OK I get your point. To each their own I guess. I think the other way to look at options would be Encore for WJ, easy, Jazz for longterm or AC and GGN for AC and shorterm money (If DEC) vs. Jazz. Safetynet at Jazz over Georgian if the industry stops is also a given. Better pay for the 2 or 3 years in regionals goes to Georgian also a given. Reality is apply at both go to the first one to offer you the job and get the clock running.

[mbav8r]

$72 an hour, minimum guaranteed is 70. Average block is around 85 hours. Overtime is available most of the time if you want it, time and a half kicks in after 90 hours.

Wow!!!! I made more than that flying right seat on the RJ at Jazz. Where the RJ job was 1000% better in ALL aspects.

Shamefull

That would make you an 11 year FO..... not sure that's a good argument

Actually, that would be an 8 year FO making 72.48 in 2016, now the upgrades are just over a year because the FOs on the old contract have seniority and make more than GGN captains, they can afford to enjoy a reasonable schedule with plenty of room for OT and still have a life!

[flyzam]

Darkhelmet, I don't understand your point. Of course Jazz is a better job than Georgian. Everyone knows that. I flown turbo props overseas and had better conditions and pay than you at Jazz. Everyone knows that conditions and pay in Canada suck on the whole compare to many other places in the world.

Big deal. We are all pilots just trying to do a job and make a living. If we had any gall, we would stand together against management that uses intercompany pride and feeling of superiority and status to divide us.

[mbav8r]

Darkhelmet, I don't understand your point. Of course Jazz is a better job than Georgian. Everyone knows that. I flown turbo props overseas and had better conditions and pay than you at Jazz. Everyone knows that conditions and pay in Canada suck on the whole compare to many other places in the world.

Big deal. We are all pilots just trying to do a job and make a living. If we had any gall, we would stand together against management that uses intercompany pride and feeling of superiority and status to divide us.

So you think Jazz pilots problem with GGN pilots is inter company pride, sorry it’s about doing the same job for significantly less money that I have a problem with. One poster in this thread mentions praying for CRJ 900s, at what rate I might ask but I already know the answer.
GTANorth,
I wonder if you have any insight into why I have encountered several GGN RJ FOs who have come to Jazz with your upgrades at the one year mark and ours a further year and a half down the road for them. Some spent nearly a year there and came to Jazz, Begs the question, why?

[805ITT]

It depends on what your short and long term goals are. If your plan for regional flying is short term before going to a mainline carrier (AC) given that 80% of Air Canada's hiring is coming from Express, a DEC position at AGL might be a better fit for you. If it's over 5 years at regional, Jazz might be a better fit because of the top end pay scale between the two CRJ Express carriers. Pay scales at the bottom end are fairly similar and not that far apart between Jazz and AGL.

Given the growth at AC and WJ in the short term (1-2 years and beyond) and then the new duty time regulation will be implemented in some form over 2-4 years; pilots are going to be in high demand for at least 5-10 years. If a large jet is your goal, the stop in the regional game will be as short or long as you want.

If you would like to gain 705 Jet PIC time from day one, based in Toronto (we have commuters from Victoria to Halifax) and meet the requirements in the ad, send in a resume and do the interview. After that, if the position isn't a fit, no harm, no foul and you got some interview experience. If it is a fit for you, welcome aboard!

Same applies for lower time pilot that may be a fit for 1900 DEC.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. CRJDRVR- you can stop by for a coffee. Management are people too.

[iflyroads]

If you would like to gain 705 Jet PIC time from day one, based in Toronto (we have commuters from Victoria to Halifax) and meet the requirements in the ad, send in a resume and do the interview. After that, if the position isn't a fit, no harm, no foul and you got some interview experience. If it is a fit for you, welcome aboard!

The only foul and harm being to your wallet as you would have to pay your way to yyz for the interview as mentioned in that book.

[Dark Helmet]

Darkhelmet, I don't understand your point. Of course Jazz is a better job than Georgian. Everyone knows that. I flown turbo props overseas and had better conditions and pay than you at Jazz. Everyone knows that conditions and pay in Canada suck on the whole compare to many other places in the world.

Big deal. We are all pilots just trying to do a job and make a living. If we had any gall, we would stand together against management that uses intercompany pride and feeling of superiority and status to divide us.

My point was to show how backwards the regional pilot WAWCON has gone due to the likes of GGN. How pilots are selling themselves short by accepting these conditions with justifications like "oh its jet time", "its okay, I am not going to be here that long" , "things will get better, I am hoping they will improve". That is what I am getting from this forum anyways and it is not good.

Things used to be a lot better. Jazz used to do all of the current RJ flying that GGN does, with a fraction of the issues.

There are better options as you and I have pointed out.

Has the same thing happened to the turboprop operator that you used to work at overseas?

If I were to go and work there tomorrow for a similar carrier, would I be looking a worse WAWCON than you enjoyed?

Anyways...

Whatever, its just sad to see what a RJ pilot is worth these days. I think we and the customers deserve better that's all.

IMHO we can all agree to disagree.

[flyzam]

Some spent nearly a year there and came to Jazz, Begs the question, why?

Because Jazz is a better company and has better pay and conditions than GGN. This is because they have been around much longer to develop these benefits of which they charge a higher rate to Air Canada. Which in turn 'forces' air Canada to diversify and not be held hostage to just one supplier so they contract out to the lowest bidder which if it wasn't air Georgian would be someone else.

What aren't you getting about this? Welcome to the. Real world. Stop your incessant whining about Georgian or who ever else came along and ruined your good thing.

It got old over 3 years ago. Either do something about it or go out and play in the snow and get some exercise - i understand it can help with depression.

[flyzam]

Has the same thing happened to the turboprop operator that you used to work at overseas?
If I were to go and work there tomorrow for a similar carrier, would I be looking a worse WAWCON than you enjoyed?

Nope - it has progressively got better there since I left 8 or so years ago. Most places in the world have far better conditions than North American flying, which is the among the most utilitarian in the world with very little support from the government. At least the yanks have realised the error of their ways and I suspect it won't be long before it happens here. It is far more expensive to live here and one gets paid far less, and that is generally across the board outside of aviation as well

Whatever, its just sad to see what a RJ pilot is worth these days. I think we and the customers deserve better that's all.

It is very sad, and I hope that it changes soon. Too many people have underestimated a pilots value for too long, most of all the pilots.

[nightbird]

So you think Jazz pilots problem with GGN pilots is inter company pride, sorry it’s about doing the same job for significantly less money that I have a problem with. One poster in this thread mentions praying for CRJ 900s, at what rate I might ask but I already know the answer.

1. Just a quick reminder those RJs used to be flown by mainline pilots at substantially better pay and working conditions than Jazz, sad that is a downward trend but stop with the double moral pointing fingers at others when you did the same thing.
2. None of the pilots at Georgian has taken anything from any pilots at Jazz, they all applied to an open position. You can blame Air Canada, Georgian and Jazz management for whatever happened.

Let’s stop blaming each other, that’s pretty stupid. Should mainline pilots hold a grudge against Jazz pilots? Or blame Westjet or Transat pilots for the creation of Rouge with the substandard pay and working conditions compared to mainline?

[Boreas]

So you think Jazz pilots problem with GGN pilots is inter company pride, sorry it’s about doing the same job for significantly less money that I have a problem with. One poster in this thread mentions praying for CRJ 900s, at what rate I might ask but I already know the answer.

1. Just a quick reminder those RJs used to be flown by mainline pilots at substantially better pay and working conditions than Jazz, sad that is a downward trend but stop with the double moral pointing fingers at others when you did the same thing.
2. None of the pilots at Georgian has taken anything from any pilots at Jazz, they all applied to an open position. You can blame Air Canada, Georgian and Jazz management for whatever happened.

Let’s stop blaming each other, that’s pretty stupid. Should mainline pilots hold a grudge against Jazz pilots? Or blame Westjet or Transat pilots for the creation of Rouge with the substandard pay and working conditions compared to mainline?

Well said, nightbird!

+1

[mbav8r]

So, the RJs that we’re ordered for Air Nova that the Air Canada pilots took from them by offering to fly for less and now the RRA clause again offering to fly regional routes for less and I’m on the moral high horse.
Really if you think about it this all started with AC pilots taking the RJs and now with 500 vacancies at AC, you guys voted to upgauge Regional routes at a discounted rate, maybe look in the mirror!

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Don't forget that short stint when Jazz pilots flew the 757 for significantly less than the Skyservice pilots they replaced.
We could go back and forth forever on this issue. We Pilots are our own worst enemy.

[mbav8r]

Don't forget that short stint when Jazz pilots flew the 757 for significantly less than the Skyservice pilots they replaced.
We could go back and forth forever on this issue. We Pilots are our own worst enemy.

Especially when we ignore facts, like the fact that the raise in pay for ALL Jazz Pilots for status pay cost the company more than if they paid a handful of 57 pilots the exact same as those Sky Service Pilots.
But who wants facts when they don’t support their argument!