New Pilots

[Stan Darsh]

As others have said, there is a shortage of pilots - a shortage of qualified pilots. At 250hrs you simply are not a commodity. If you want advice, here's mine: stop worrying about how your peers are doing. It's not a race. Opportunities arrive and disappear, the industry is unpredictable. Not a working pilot today in Canada has had the same career path. Use your friends and contacts to get a job, but don't compare theirs to yours. When you have even a small amount of operational experience the job market doesn't seem so barren.

[fish4life]

You seem to mention how well you did on “theory” as well, most of flying doesn’t require someone to know every single page of every manual by heart. I’d rather take a kid that might not have the greatest theory knowledge but grew up fooling around with machinery and fixing stuff he broke than some brilliantly book smart guy that can’t figure out how to operate a clutch on a dirt bike because at the end of the day flying a plane is just operating machinery and some people are naturally much better machinery operators than others.

Another thing that separates you from your peer isn’t $10000, it is an instructor rating which he has and you don’t. Did you ever think about doing time building on a tail dragger or getting a float rating? That would have helped and if you did any research prior to getting your license it would have been obvious.

[mixturerich]

what you see is not my personality, it is the reaction of dealing with rude chief pilots.

Oh man. How you ever heard the expression, “if everyone else is an asshole, you’re probably an asshole?”

As other guys have said, there is a shortage of experienced pilots, not fresh CPL’s. Flying in remote locations (where most 703 flying is) quite often demands a lot more skill and problem-solving abilities than the flying itself - this is the knowledge you learn as a rampie. You have a lot to learn, my friend, so stop wasting time and go find yourself a ramp job if you want to achieve your dreams, it worked for everyone else.

[Diadem]

Oh man. How you ever heard the expression, “if everyone else is an asshole, you’re probably an asshole?”

I like "If it smells like shit everywhere you go, check your shoes".

[shimmydampner]

Indeed.
There has never, in recent memory, been more opportunities for pilots of all experience levels. If you can’t find a job, one way or another, the problem is YOU.

[C.W.E.]

Everyone here missed his biggest opportunity for getting hired.

He should have went to top management and informed them they had a rude chief pilot and sold himself as the obvious candidate for the position of Chief Pilot.

[Loner]

Everyone here missed his biggest opportunity for getting hired.

He should have went to top management and informed them they had a rude chief pilot and sold himself as the obvious candidate for the position of Chief Pilot.

[2ndGenAviator]

Lol welcome to the aviation industry. Bet you wish you had figured this part out before flight college eh? ;P

[AirDoan]

Indeed.
There has never, in recent memory, been more opportunities for pilots of all experience levels. If you can’t find a job, one way or another, the problem is YOU.

It's funny. I've had my CPL and Float rating for over a year. I have not found a job yet despite trying to network and doing what I from here in Victoria. I can't afford to group 1 nor instructor ratings with my current job. But this doesn't mean I blame the industry. I think not being able to get a student load for ratings is ridiculous, but I don't blame my potential employers for not hiring me when someone with their group 1 is also applying. Ultimately they are more qualified. I know I need to be in the right place and meet the right people at the right time.

[Tiberius]

I'm not a pilot, but this same conundrum is what contributed to my quitting training altogether and studying something else. I believe I can provide some outside perspective:

The original poster does have a point to some degree. He's invested in his training, he is, for better or worse, qualified to fly, at least on paper. Most companies that I've worked for (engineering and development consulting) have a 3 to 6 month probationary period, after which, either party can decide if the arrangement is right for them. During this period, I'm assessing my employer as much as they are assessing me. But at the end of this period, a decision is made. Either the relationship is continued or it is terminated. Assuming that both parties are honest, feedback should be open and transparent. The key is that the probationary period is finite and definitive. If it is not working, neither party is being strung along for too long.

The original poster is essentially saying that if he ramps, he feels that he should have some assurances that he'll get an honest shot at flying. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation, but there are expectations and then there's reality.

Welcome to the world of aviation indeed.

But on the other side, I also understand the need for operators to assess the work ethic of new hires, particularly with those fresh out of school. Not just from a safety perspective, but from a business one itself, you want people who will treat the business like it's their own and not just as some pit-stop in their career. But if someone is not going to work out, then they should be let go and not kept on ramp indefinitely, especially if they're not cut out to progress in your company. As it has been pointed out, there are plenty of fresh pilot grads who will jump at the opportunity.

In the field that I'm in, I've had my share of dead-end jobs and and jobs that weren't as advertised. These were mostly corporate gigs that functioned mostly on B.S. and office politics. But I've had great success with small businesses where I was assessed on the quality of my work and my "work ethic". I didn't make as much, but I learned a lot more and I was progressively given more responsibilities as time went on. In the interviews, I dealt with the business owners (as opposed to corporate recruiters) and I got a feel for what sort of characters they were, which factored heavily into my decision to stay on. You want to work for someone who will deal with you openly and honestly (even if they are a hard-ass), and this is where you have to trust your gut. Taking the first offer you get may not be the best answer and you should be given time to make a decision if the offer is serious. I've turned down better offers to stay where I presently am. Interviews where I'm pressured to make a decision then and there, well I turn those offers down because I know they're just trying to fill a seat.

I can't really give advice here, but if it were me, I would try a similar approach. Try and interview with the owner, get a sense of who they are in terms of character, and I would make it known at the interview as to what my industry / career goals are and see how they react and if they show a personal interest in that sense. But I would strongly advise against the either / or approach, particularly when you don't have the cards to play. I would hope that there would be some sort of definitive / probationary period in an offer with feedback or evaluations, but if not, then I myself may have to decide on my own terms what that period may be. If after 3 or 6 months there isn't any progression (in terms of assigned responsibilities), then it may be time to reassess the situation.

But again, I'm an outsider, so I can't really give advice here. But I've met guys I trained with years back who were still ramping 10 years on, still waiting for "their shot"...

[northernpilot2]

The industry is small and CP's do read these forms and with your attitude demonstrated here I can tell you if your resume came across my desk and I saw the name Sean Brown, right now it would go in the garbage bin.

If I was a CP, I personally would not jump to a conclusion that fast with just AVCANADA evidence. Im not trying to defend the OP, but Im wondering how do you know this guy is actually "Sean Brown"?? He could be an enemy trying to impersonate the real Sean Brown for all we know.

[Roar]

[quote=Roar post_id=<a href="tel:1022420">1022420</a> time=<a href="tel:1513465137">1513465137</a> user_id=9289]
The industry is small and CP's do read these forms and with your attitude demonstrated here I can tell you if your resume came across my desk and I saw the name Sean Brown, right now it would go in the garbage bin.

If I was a CP, I personally would not jump to a conclusion that fast with just AVCANADA evidence. Im not trying to defend the OP, but Im wondering how do you know this guy is actually "Sean Brown"?? He could be an enemy trying to impersonate the real Sean Brown for all we know.
[/quote]

Sure, I guess that could be true. It could also be true that I’m really an IA bot from North Korea trying to infiltrated the aviation industry via Avcanada and since I see you joined Avcanada on Dec. 28th 2017 maybe you are “Sean Brown” now trying to cover your tracks. I can play this game all night.
The OP made some comments that were entitled and whiny for a 250hr Pilot, I urged him to think about the ramifications of his actions and since my comment and/or others, he has so far wisely heeded them as he has not persisted in this thread.
Would I really bin a resume for an Avcanada post? Probably not, but my intention was to mentor the young man using some hard realities of life.

[Loner]

[quote=Roar post_id=<a href="tel:1022420">1022420</a> time=<a href="tel:1513465137">1513465137</a> user_id=9289]
The industry is small and CP's do read these forms and with your attitude demonstrated here I can tell you if your resume came across my desk and I saw the name Sean Brown, right now it would go in the garbage bin.

If I was a CP, I personally would not jump to a conclusion that fast with just AVCANADA evidence. Im not trying to defend the OP, but Im wondering how do you know this guy is actually "Sean Brown"?? He could be an enemy trying to impersonate the real Sean Brown for all we know.

Sure, I guess that could be true. It could also be true that I’m really an IA bot from North Korea trying to infiltrated the aviation industry via Avcanada and since I see you joined Avcanada on Dec. 28th 2017 maybe you are “Sean Brown” now trying to cover your tracks. I can play this game all night.
The OP made some comments that were entitled and whiny for a 250hr Pilot, I urged him to think about the ramifications of his actions and since my comment and/or others, he has so far wisely heeded them as he has not persisted in this thread.
Would I really bin a resume for an Avcanada post? Probably not, but my intention was to mentor the young man using some hard realities of life.
[/quote]

Roar..you blew his cover!

[northernpilot2]

Sure, I guess that could be true. It could also be true that I’m really an IA bot from North Korea trying to infiltrated the aviation industry via Avcanada and since I see you joined Avcanada on Dec. 28th 2017 maybe you are “Sean Brown” now trying to cover your tracks. I can play this game all night.
The OP made some comments that were entitled and whiny for a 250hr Pilot, I urged him to think about the ramifications of his actions and since my comment and/or others, he has so far wisely heeded them as he has not persisted in this thread.
Would I really bin a resume for an Avcanada post? Probably not, but my intention was to mentor the young man using some hard realities of life.

Sorry had to chuckle. Im NOT Sean Brown trust me. You don't have to believe me now but hopefully as I make more posts in the future I can prove you wrong.

But yeah, I agree with you the OP comments are whiny and entitled. I have also run across many whiny pilots in my career. Sometimes I scratch my head and wonder why do they sign up for this profession. But anyways, that is another topic.

[Andjam]

...

[2ndGenAviator]

Don't do ramp jobs if you are a CPL and are promised a promotion to the flight line if they like you enough. Do the ramp job if that's a job you actually wouldn't mind doing. Whinny and entitled? I don't think so. A CPL is a CPL and thats the end of it. Once you have it you can fly people for money. Don't settle for the opportunity to maybe possibly be able to fly people for money. If they actually need people they will hire you. If they don't. F*** em.

[Cat Driver]

Don't do ramp jobs if you are a CPL and are promised a promotion to the flight line if they like you enough. Do the ramp job if that's a job you actually wouldn't mind doing. Whinny and entitled? I don't think so. A CPL is a CPL and thats the end of it. Once you have it you can fly people for money. Don't settle for the opportunity to maybe possibly be able to fly people for money. If they actually need people they will hire you. If they don't. F*** em.

Wow:

A CPL is a piece of paper that confirms you have met the minimum requirements to get the license.

I have flown with people who hold a CPL that I wouldn't let fly my airplane , never mind allowing them to fly customers for my company.

If they actually need people they will hire you. If they don't. F*** em.

That statement shows an attitude that would be the deciding factor to not hire such an individual, I would park an airplane before risking my company's reputation with a pilot that did not meet the standards of flying skills and decision making skills I look for when hiring pilots.

The above comments are my personal opinion and only that.

[Andjam]

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[TG]

As a fresh CPL, I would not have been ready to go immediately into a right seat airline position. I hadn’t yet encountered any real-world experience to really develop my decision-making skills yet.

You don't have much to worry about your decision making skills as green F/O.
It basically all fall down to the guy/gal seating on your left, unless incapacitation of some sort.

[Andjam]

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