Air Bravo Again

Got a hot employment or interview tip to help a fellow aviator find a job or looking for a little job advice place your posting here.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore

Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Lost Lake
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1121
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:11 am
Location: On top

Air Bravo Again

#1 Post by Lost Lake » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:39 pm

Wow. The most posted job ad on AvCanada. I'm guessing they make more on their $10000 bonds than they do flying. When will they learn to pay and treat people like human beings. Geesh. But to show you how f#%ked up the industry is, pilots will be climbing over each others backs to be a co-pilot on a single pilot PC-12. Glad my flying career is almost over

P/S. Never worked for them. Just know a little more than the average guy.
---------- ADS -----------
  
What little I do know is either not important or I've forgotten it!
Transport Canada's mission statement: We're not happy until you're not happy

Spirit
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#2 Post by Spirit » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:45 pm

They also have $10,000 upfront bond??? Is every operator in CYQT doing the same thing?

Sucks
---------- ADS -----------
  

lownslow
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 967
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 am

Re: Air Bravo Again

#3 Post by lownslow » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:48 pm

Spirit wrote:They also have $10,000 upfront bond??? Is every operator in CYQT doing the same thing?
No, not all of them. But for those who do, what alternative do you suggest?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Spirit
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#4 Post by Spirit » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:16 am

Promissory Note with no money exchange?
---------- ADS -----------
  

lownslow
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 967
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 am

Re: Air Bravo Again

#5 Post by lownslow » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:09 am

Spirit wrote:Promissory Note with no money exchange?
Last I checked, Thunder did it that way.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Spirit
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#6 Post by Spirit » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:54 am

Thanks for the info. Do you happen to know about Ornge bonds?
---------- ADS -----------
  

172_Captain
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#7 Post by 172_Captain » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:49 am

Spirit wrote:Thanks for the info. Do you happen to know about Ornge bonds?
Promissory note at Thunder prorated over 18 months starting 6 months after employment.

No bonds at Ornge. But it's quite a bit harder to get in there, and you'll be in the right seat for 2+ years before going left. That's just what I've heard anyway from a few Ornge guys.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Spirit
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#8 Post by Spirit » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:15 am

Great, thank you for the info!
---------- ADS -----------
  

Illya Kuryakin
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1221
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:14 pm
Location: The Gulag Archipelago

Re: Air Bravo Again

#9 Post by Illya Kuryakin » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:45 pm

It's been a long time since I've seen this many job ads for pilots. If you sign ANYTHING you're a fool. Unless it's where YOU WANT TO STAY while all your buddies are getting jet jobs. Or at least Q400 gigs. Give your heads a shake.
Illya
---------- ADS -----------
  
Wish I didn't know now, what I didn't know then.

Spirit
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#10 Post by Spirit » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:41 pm

New posting today for FO. What's the story, can't hold on to pilots?
---------- ADS -----------
  

172_Captain
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#11 Post by 172_Captain » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:52 pm

Spirit wrote:New posting today for FO. What's the story, can't hold on to pilots?
No one is holding on to pilots these days. It's not operator specific.
Spirit wrote:They also have $10,000 upfront bond??? Is every operator in CYQT doing the same thing?

Sucks
The best thing about it is they are giving the new guys PCC's. Their first flight up is their flight test. Yet they still have people paying 10G's for a 1 hour flight in a PC-12.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Spirit
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#12 Post by Spirit » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:20 pm

172_Captain wrote:
Spirit wrote:New posting today for FO. What's the story, can't hold on to pilots?
No one is holding on to pilots these days. It's not operator specific.
Spirit wrote:They also have $10,000 upfront bond??? Is every operator in CYQT doing the same thing?

Sucks
The best thing about it is they are giving the new guys PCC's. Their first flight up is their flight test. Yet they still have people paying 10G's for a 1 hour flight in a PC-12.
10G's for an hour of PC-12 time! I can think of better ways to spend that much money that fast... :wink:
---------- ADS -----------
  

trey kule
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4381
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:09 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#13 Post by trey kule » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:23 pm

I predict there will be no shortage of people applying or willing to pay.

a special kind of stupid.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Everyone is a genius in hindsight

User avatar
7507
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:45 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#14 Post by 7507 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:31 pm

Spirit wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:41 pm
New posting today for FO. What's the story, can't hold on to pilots?
What is is the pilot schedule like and is it two pilot crew?
Thanks
---------- ADS -----------
  

lownslow
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 967
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 am

Re: Air Bravo Again

#15 Post by lownslow » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:28 pm

trey kule wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:23 pm
I predict there will be no shortage of people applying or willing to pay.
7507 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:31 pm
What is is the pilot schedule like and is it two pilot crew?
Nailed it.
---------- ADS -----------
  

shamrock104
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 688
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:16 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#16 Post by shamrock104 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:01 am

Be very careful and wary of bonds and read the fine print, if unclear question the company or take it to a lawyer.
I am aware of a guy who just failed his PPC out here in Calgary after just 5 hours training in a machine that he had zero experience on and now he is on the hook for a substantial bond.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Bede
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2974
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am
Contact:

Re: Air Bravo Again

#17 Post by Bede » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:03 am

shamrock104 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:01 am
Be very careful and wary of bonds and read the fine print, if unclear question the company or take it to a lawyer.
I am aware of a guy who just failed his PPC out here in Calgary after just 5 hours training in a machine that he had zero experience on and now he is on the hook for a substantial bond.
Exactly. If an employer insists on a bond, insist on a bond within an employment contract. What happens if you get laid off? Where is the bond money held? What are the conditions for termination? Where are you based? What is your wage?

Imagine you sign a bond and a couple of months later the company want to move you to another base. If you say no and are laid off are you still out the bond money?
---------- ADS -----------
  

phillyfan
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 879
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:22 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#18 Post by phillyfan » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:23 am

Far more operators are burned by bond jumping pilots, then pilots burned by operators. The reason bonds exist is because whiny, homesick, mama's boy pilots can't handle work and leave after a month. There are more of these types every year. Its the same reason that godforbid, northern operators ask that one of these Toronto basement dwellers prove he can handle life in Fond du Lac, Norman Wells, or Pickle Lake before spending time, money or effort on him. The Bond Argument is old and lame. Pay it or don't pay it. Work or don't work. But it is certainly the companies right to require it. Don't blame the company. Blame the losers who came before you.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Axial Flow
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 492
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:00 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#19 Post by Axial Flow » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:18 am

phillyfan wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:23 am
Far more operators are burned by bond jumping pilots, then pilots burned by operators. The reason bonds exist is because whiny, homesick, mama's boy pilots can't handle work and leave after a month. There are more of these types every year. Its the same reason that godforbid, northern operators ask that one of these Toronto basement dwellers prove he can handle life in Fond du Lac, Norman Wells, or Pickle Lake before spending time, money or effort on him. The Bond Argument is old and lame. Pay it or don't pay it. Work or don't work. But it is certainly the companies right to require it. Don't blame the company. Blame the losers who came before you.
It's posts like these, that make me so fortunate to be part of such a tight nit group and why I tell my kids to be lawyers...
---------- ADS -----------
  

bobm
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:27 am

Re: Air Bravo Again

#20 Post by bobm » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:06 pm

Well; back in about 1987 I was the CP of a newer smaller outfit that was operating a new ME turbine. I had been flying it myself in a two crew environment. We were very busy and decided to hire another Captain. I ended up hiring an individual who was you young but had the qualifications necessary to take on the position. He had been Captain for a while working for a Government sanctioned airline. (NorOntair) I sent him off to FSI for the Initial course in HOU on our aircraft type.
That included flying him to HOU, room, transport and the 5 day course. Cost was about $10,000.00 at that time.
On the Monday morning after his return, he walked into my office with his books and notes from the course and said “thanks, but while I was training I have accepted another job. He left his FSI training books and walked out, never having actually gotten into our aircraft….

So you ask, where do Bonds come from?
---------- ADS -----------
  

yepivedonethat
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#21 Post by yepivedonethat » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:14 pm

Ok so your average 703 operation is either waking up or in the process of doing so because people are moving on to airline and cushy corporate gigs because like Air Bravo the majority of them treat their flight staff like junk. Here are a few facts about Air Bravo and similar 703 operations:

They offer you a bond without an employment contract. So you go do the training and as previously stated by another poster you fail the ride. Now you're on the hook for $15k and you have no job. Pilots... wake up. No job offer, no bond. Or at least an escape clause.

Bonds are used to trap pilots into time based agreements that inevitably they want out of because the employer then takes advantage of said pilot.

703 operations are struggling to find qualified people so as such they are spreading things even thinner as a result. My sources tell me that Air Bravo in particular is one or two flight staff members away from quitting that will cripple their operation.

I have no sympathy for any of these operations or their operators. They are typically billing their contract companies in the order of $10k to $15k plus a day with very marginal and predictable costing to their businesses. They need to find solutions to incentive the good people they have, treat them well, not trap them with ridiculous bond or lack of employment agreements and give them a reason to stay rather than quit at the earliest opportunity.

Yep, I done that. Glad I moved on. Peace & long life all.
---------- ADS -----------
  

toelessjoe
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#22 Post by toelessjoe » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:01 pm

Everyone's situation is different. A few months ago I found myself needing something different so I came here. Rotating schedule, better than average pay and actually having fun while doing it. Is it for everybody? No. At the end of the day it's a typical 703 operator with typical 703 shenanigans. Decide what's right for you.

Oh, and the reason they always seem to be advertising is because people come in, get some time, and go fly a Q400. Just like every other 703/704 operator. :smt040

Toeless.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
7507
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:45 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#23 Post by 7507 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:22 am

toelessjoe wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Everyone's situation is different. A few months ago I found myself needing something different so I came here. Rotating schedule, better than average pay and actually having fun while doing it. Is it for everybody? No. At the end of the day it's a typical 703 operator with typical 703 shenanigans. Decide what's right for you.

Oh, and the reason they always seem to be advertising is because people come in, get some time, and go fly a Q400. Just like every other 703/704 operator. :smt040

Toeless.

What kind of schedule did you work?
Thanks
---------- ADS -----------
  

phillyfan
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 879
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:22 pm

Re: Air Bravo Again

#24 Post by phillyfan » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:53 am

My sources tell me that pilots are losers. Millennial ones are even worse. Pilots are still a dime a dozen. Its the good ones and the ones you don't want to punch that are hard to find. I am sure Air Bravo could find a couple mouth breathers on short notice to fill a seat if somebody quits. Its a Millennial thing to believe that a company will shut down because you quit. It usually causes a minor nuisance for a day or two.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “Employment Forum”