Cockroaches?

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telex
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by telex »

SuperchargedRS wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:36 am
nightbird wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:55 pm Let's make a deal since you obviously have a good high paying job. I will stop accepting low paying jobs and sit at home all day if you agree to pay my bills and send me a check for the same amount that my low paying job was providing.
Or even better go get me a job where I can make more money and I will be happy to show my company the middle finger.
Until you pay my bills or get me an offer to a better job that is adequate to my needs you have no F&&^ saying on what I do or don't do with my life.

Yes I do

BUT, since I'm not a commie, a socalist or your mommie I won't pay for your lunch, your house or hold your hand.

You need to be a man and do these things for yourself.
FL007 wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:40 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:09 am Or you could try to fix your own country instead of screwing with another country.

Go fly corporate or something till the Canadian airlines get their chit together, that's what many American ATPs are doing.

Besides its kinda a mute point as no one is getting a visa to work for a airline over here, especially with how many qualified pilots are in the US.
This is a troll post for sure..

Fix your own country instead of screwing with another country? First, leaving your country creates the shortage of work that will affect the demand of skilled pilots thus increasing pay *ahem* in theory. However bottom feeder airlines are applying and being granted government exemptions to foreign labor, ie; Evas, and previously, Sunwing.

A big problem now is that the undercutting in Canada isn't being done by Canadian pilots anymore, foreign workers who are willing to work for ridiculously low wages are accepting positions just to live in Canada.

I wish I could jump ship to the US and work, however an airline pilot isn't a career deemed acceptable for a work visa, yet. I commend the US government for keeping such a tight ship though. The only entity feeling the pressure are the airlines themselves, which are paying top dollar and have guaranteed flow to mainline carriers.

We just have to sit and wait for the government to do their part here.

It's not the government, it's the people, the people control the government.

If a company hired a foreign pilot and all the other line pilots called in sick for 3 days straight, that's something.

Or took skirts protesting in front of the immigration office for a week or two.

And going to another country that doesn't have a strong pilot population is one thing, which is fine.

Going to somewhere like the US which has the biggest pilot population on earth and taking jobs that US pilots are not taking because of low pay, that's more or less being a scab.
Here's what a scab is:

"A strikebreaker (sometimes derogatorily called a scab, blackleg, or knobstick) is a person who works despite an ongoing strike. Strikebreakers are usually individuals who are not employed by the company prior to the trade union dispute, but rather hired after or during the strike to keep the organization running."

In your world this only applies if one goes to work in the US with no strike action? One is not more or less a scab. One is or one is not.
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by nightbird »

SuperchargedRS wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:36 am
nightbird wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:55 pm Let's make a deal since you obviously have a good high paying job. I will stop accepting low paying jobs and sit at home all day if you agree to pay my bills and send me a check for the same amount that my low paying job was providing.
Or even better go get me a job where I can make more money and I will be happy to show my company the middle finger.
Until you pay my bills or get me an offer to a better job that is adequate to my needs you have no F&&^ saying on what I do or don't do with my life.

Yes I do

BUT, since I'm not a commie, a socalist or your mommie I won't pay for your lunch, your house or hold your hand.
Please tell me your “high paying job” is not flying a PC12 for Ornge based in the middle of nowhere... it sounds like you need a bit more help than I do lol.
I’ve had my fare share of shitty jobs with no regrets, they put me where I am today, which by the way pays a little bit better than Ornge, and when I say a bit I mean almost double, and I have hot coffee and warm crew meals on demand.
So thanks mom but I’m doing just fine on my own ... lol
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by SuperchargedRS »

telex wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:52 am
Here's what a scab is:

"A strikebreaker (sometimes derogatorily called a scab, blackleg, or knobstick) is a person who works despite an ongoing strike. Strikebreakers are usually individuals who are not employed by the company prior to the trade union dispute, but rather hired after or during the strike to keep the organization running."

In your world this only applies if one goes to work in the US with no strike action? One is not more or less a scab. One is or one is not.
Yeah, exactly

Basically the whole countries experienced pilot population is on "strike", they aren't going to work for crap pay, so the crap paying regionals are having staffing issues, thus are slowly raising their pay, though they still have a WAYS to go.

So if you were to come here because our crap paying regionals pay more than your super crap paying regionals you would be filling jobs that many US pilots refuse to fill due to working conditions/pay/etc, and that's undercutting US pilots who are actually slowly bringing the industry up by refusing to work for crap.






nightbird wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:06 pm Please tell me your “high paying job” is not flying a PC12 for Ornge based in the middle of nowhere... it sounds like you need a bit more help than I do lol.
I’ve had my fare share of shitty jobs with no regrets, they put me where I am today, which by the way pays a little bit better than Ornge, and when I say a bit I mean almost double, and I have hot coffee and warm crew meals on demand.
So thanks mom but I’m doing just fine on my own ... lol

Hey, you were the one comming up to me with his hand out lol

But no, I don't fly for ornge, I wouldn't fly a single pilot plane with two crew, just seems silly, but I do fly a PC12 for work, make well into the six figures, union, work half the year, home every night, and though your crew meals (is that like a lunchable? Or one of those meals served in a tinfoil box thing?) and warm coffee sounds life sustaining, I'll take my nice BBQ, full kitchen, expresso machine, satellite and high speed internet at work thanks. :)
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by rookiepilot »

Supercharged, just curious -- under your logic, reverse the circumstances, lockouts are cool, then, too?
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by confusedalot »

Sounds like the whole idea of commuter contractors may be falling apart. If it costs the same to outsource as it is to operate in house, why not just pull operations back into mothercorp?

Any ideas?
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by SuperchargedRS »

rookiepilot wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:10 pm Supercharged, just curious -- under your logic, if you want to call it that,

You must like lockouts then. Preferable to a company shifting work to another country? Same thing, right? Just deny employment.

I'm guessing not.

Freemarket to an extent


But yeah, you don't like what a company does moving jobs away, don't do business, and push YOUR government, because the bastards work for YOU, to tariff the crap out of that company.

They are free to move jobs, you are free to pressure government to make life hard for them, airlines are free to pay crap, you are free to not fly for them, no pilots no flying, no flying to revenue for the airline, and given enough losses the airlines are going to fix that problem by tossing some much needed money at it, or they'll shut down and someone a little smarter will start up and go right where they went wrong.
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by rookiepilot »

SuperchargedRS wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:35 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:10 pm Supercharged, just curious -- under your logic, if you want to call it that,

You must like lockouts then. Preferable to a company shifting work to another country? Same thing, right? Just deny employment.

I'm guessing not.

Freemarket to an extent


But yeah, you don't like what a company does moving jobs away, don't do business, and push YOUR government, because the bastards work for YOU, to tariff the crap out of that company.

They are free to move jobs, you are free to pressure government to make life hard for them, airlines are free to pay crap, you are free to not fly for them, no pilots no flying, no flying to revenue for the airline, and given enough losses the airlines are going to fix that problem by tossing some much needed money at it, or they'll shut down and someone a little smarter will start up and go right where they went wrong.
You ought to study what happens when governments raise minimum wages too far. Job losses.

And companies are free to close their doors. Everyone has choice.

Anyway, I'm not in the industry, don't really care, but I don't work for other people. I'm a free agent, and if I was flying, and China or other places were far better, and I didn't mind the lifestyle, I'd be gone In a heartbeat.

Hey, I like Canada, but my own security is far more important than the union "brotherhood"

LOL --
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by SuperchargedRS »

I'm not talking minimum wage.
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by confusedalot »

Couple of things that ALPA calculated in the past...

''pilot pay'' constitutes 4% of total operating expenses.

If airfares were raised by 10-20 dollars per ticket, (so your 400 dollar ticket now costs 420 dollars), we wouldn't even be having this conversation, since there would not be a ''problem''.

Carry on.....

As an afterthought, few employees in the airline business, if any, make minimum wage.
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by telex »

SuperchargedRS wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:51 pm
telex wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:52 am
Here's what a scab is:

"A strikebreaker (sometimes derogatorily called a scab, blackleg, or knobstick) is a person who works despite an ongoing strike. Strikebreakers are usually individuals who are not employed by the company prior to the trade union dispute, but rather hired after or during the strike to keep the organization running."

In your world this only applies if one goes to work in the US with no strike action? One is not more or less a scab. One is or one is not.
Yeah, exactly

Basically the whole countries experienced pilot population is on "strike", they aren't going to work for crap pay, so the crap paying regionals are having staffing issues, thus are slowly raising their pay, though they still have a WAYS to go.





Can you provide any evidence to support your claim?
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by Oldguystrtn2fly »

confusedalot wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:15 pm Couple of things that ALPA calculated in the past...

''pilot pay'' constitutes 4% of total operating expenses.

If airfares were raised by 10-20 dollars per ticket, (so your 400 dollar ticket now costs 420 dollars), we wouldn't even be having this conversation, since there would not be a ''problem''.

Carry on.....

As an afterthought, few employees in the airline business, if any, make minimum wage.
If every industry did this, raised the cost to the consumer, so in fact everything increased in cost, would the raise to the worker actually mean anything? I mean they have to buy things too right.
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by rookiepilot »

Oldguystrtn2fly wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:42 pm
confusedalot wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:15 pm Couple of things that ALPA calculated in the past...

''pilot pay'' constitutes 4% of total operating expenses.

If airfares were raised by 10-20 dollars per ticket, (so your 400 dollar ticket now costs 420 dollars), we wouldn't even be having this conversation, since there would not be a ''problem''.

Carry on.....

As an afterthought, few employees in the airline business, if any, make minimum wage.
If every industry did this, raised the cost to the consumer, so in fact everything increased in cost, would the raise to the worker actually mean anything? I mean they have to buy things too right.
Someone who gets it.
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by co-joe »

SuperchargedRS wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:09 am Or you could try to fix your own country instead of screwing with another country.

Go fly corporate or something...
Yeah OK Marie Antoinette. Let them eat cake...
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by justwork »

SuperchargedRS wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:38 pm So I've noticed in a few recent posts that many Canadian pilots seem to be eager to flee Canada for "greener pastures", such as the US where pilots refuse to work for crap pay, maybe instead of being a importable cheap labor, might it be a better idea to just fix the industry in Canada instead of being scabs?

I mean if you don't take the low paying jobs, the companies will ether raise the pay or shut it the frack down, ether way its a win.


Just a thought
Who is the cockroach? I left Canada because I can make 5 times the money, and work half the time, if I work overseas. So to me, you're the cockroach for sticking it out at any airline in Canada.
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by SuperchargedRS »

I said it like 5 times already.

Going to another country without a strong pilot population to fill jobs, fine.

Going to a another country (USA) that has a even stronger pilot population than Canada to take a job Americans don't take due to the pay being low, being a roach
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by telex »

SuperchargedRS wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:09 pm I said it like 5 times already.

Going to another country without a strong pilot population to fill jobs, fine.

Going to a another country (USA) that has a even stronger pilot population than Canada to take a job Americans don't take due to the pay being low, being a roach
Are you serious or still drunk from your new year's drinking binge?

Where is evidence of this epidemic of Canadian pilots crossing the border to take low paying regional jobs in the USA?

In your delusion what countries do you think Canadians could work in without you labelling them a roach? Or is it scab?
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by SuperchargedRS »

telex wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:27 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:09 pm I said it like 5 times already.

Going to another country without a strong pilot population to fill jobs, fine.

Going to a another country (USA) that has a even stronger pilot population than Canada to take a job Americans don't take due to the pay being low, being a roach
Are you serious or still drunk from your new year's drinking binge?

Where is evidence of this epidemic of Canadian pilots crossing the border to take low paying regional jobs in the USA?

In your delusion what countries do you think Canadians could work in without you labelling them a roach? Or is it scab?
Did I say there was an "epidemic" of Canadians coming down south?
No, I didn't, I even said that they wouldn't be able to get a visa anyways.

This topic was related to a few other threads where folks talked about going down south to work if they could.

You really should read the whole thread before you comment, maybe take notes too lol


As per the second part, dude.... again with reading, here let me quote myself, sound each word out and let me know if you need further assistance.


"Going to another country without a strong pilot population to fill jobs, fine.

Going to a another country (USA) that has a even stronger pilot population than Canada to take a job Americans don't take due to the pay being low, being a roach"
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by rookiepilot »

RS -- Dude. You Got a lotta passion for this subject of Canadian pay. So I got a suggestion for you.

(Read slowly and carefully.)

Borrow a million or 2,

Start an aviation company,

Pay twice what everyone else is paying.

Lead by example, dude. With your dough.

We will all be inspired. I promise.
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by telex »

SuperchargedRS wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:28 pm
telex wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:27 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:09 pm I said it like 5 times already.

Going to another country without a strong pilot population to fill jobs, fine.

Going to a another country (USA) that has a even stronger pilot population than Canada to take a job Americans don't take due to the pay being low, being a roach
Are you serious or still drunk from your new year's drinking binge?

Where is evidence of this epidemic of Canadian pilots crossing the border to take low paying regional jobs in the USA?

In your delusion what countries do you think Canadians could work in without you labelling them a roach? Or is it scab?
Did I say there was an "epidemic" of Canadians coming down south?
No, I didn't, I even said that they wouldn't be able to get a visa anyways.

This topic was related to a few other threads where folks talked about going down south to work if they could.

You really should read the whole thread before you comment, maybe take notes too lol


As per the second part, dude.... again with reading, here let me quote myself, sound each word out and let me know if you need further assistance.


"Going to another country without a strong pilot population to fill jobs, fine.

Going to a another country (USA) that has a even stronger pilot population than Canada to take a job Americans don't take due to the pay being low, being a roach"
I can't figure out why you are only interested in protecting American jobs. Your philosophy is border dependant? So again what countries do you allow a Canadian to work in without applying your label of scab or roach?
You say the experienced pilots in the entire USA are on strike against low paying regional jobs? Who is in that group? The the Navajo and KingAir pilots or who are you referencing? It's a group of individuals with no association who are refusing advancement into jets to improve the industry? The least experienced people in the industry are going to improve it by themselves as an unorganized group of individuals?
Can you explain your experience and involvement in the American industry? I'm sure it would help me understand.
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Re: Cockroaches?

Post by SuperchargedRS »

rookiepilot wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:00 pm RS -- Dude. You Got a lotta passion for this subject of Canadian pay. So I got a suggestion for you.

(Read slowly and carefully.)

Borrow a million or 2,

Start an aviation company,

Pay twice what everyone else is paying.

Lead by example, dude. With your dough.

We will all be inspired. I promise.

Sweet baby jesus.....

I am leading by example since I won't work for a crap paying airline....
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