Upgrade times and pay.

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JBI
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Re: Upgrade times and pay.

Post by JBI »

altiplano wrote:I did the RP position for a while.

There can be some challenges on the long range stuff, but once (if) you get into a routine it's way better than all night Atlantic crossings with 2 guys or even transcon redeyes... and the 16-20 day schedules some guys here are working.

In fact I found a schedule of double augmented 3-day Asia pairings to be the best I ever felt of any of the positions I've done at AC. With 6-7 hours in the bunk you get a pretty good sleep in even on flights you are working the back side of the clock. Some guys have difficulty, but for the most part I could sleep reasonably well. Lots of time off for recovery and staying ahead of the stresses that build up when you're away...
You basically read my mind on the post I had in draft by answering the question already :D :prayer: , but I'll ask anyway:

Question for the folks who have done various types of long-haul/back of the clock flying. Did you find it harder doing:
a-a few 5 hour YVR-YYZ narrow body Red-eyes with 14-16 total days a month flying?
b-the 6-9 hour Trans Atlantic red-eyes with slightly less flying a month?
c-or, the extra long haul Asia/ME with an RP for 9-10 days a month?

I don't particularly have a preference - was just curious. While the extra long haul stuff would seem to mess with your body clock the most, there seems to be more of an opportunity to rest while in the A/C and more time to recover in between flights.
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altiplano
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Re: Upgrade times and pay.

Post by altiplano »

d) the a/b mixed schedule - 20 days of transcon redeyes and 2 pilot western Europe trips. month after month after month...

That's the worst schedule and most fatigued I've ever felt my entire career.
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'97 Tercel
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Re: Upgrade times and pay.

Post by '97 Tercel »

So I've heard new hires are being told that if they don't have any jet time in the last 2 years they can't bid for the 737. (Because AC doesn't want to do circuits with them?)

Anyone know more about this??
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JBI
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Re: Upgrade times and pay.

Post by JBI »

'97 Tercel wrote:So I've heard new hires are being told that if they don't have any jet time in the last 2 years they can't bid for the 737. (Because AC doesn't want to do circuits with them?)

Anyone know more about this??
The new AC Max SIM has only been certified by Transport Canada as Level C at the moment. For some reason this requires previous jet time - not sure all the specifics and timelines regarding SIM certification; apparently its expected to be certified to Level D in the future.
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zipper
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Re: Upgrade times and pay.

Post by zipper »

When I log into the Air Canada careers website and look at my jobs it shows the pilot one as 'Accepting Submissions'. Nothing for pilots on the main page though. Anyone have an insight?
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Level Change
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Re: Upgrade times and pay.

Post by Level Change »

Spent 7 years on the 777 doing Asia. Primarily HKG and PVG. Not really an issue for me sleep wise. At TOC I would be in the bunk for a three hour nap, fly for three hours and then back into the bunk for another 3 hour nap before coming back to the flight deck. The first few months took a little getting used to but generally, I loved it. Flights to Asia leave in the day time vs Europe leaving later at night. Six hours of sleep coming back home and 9 days per month. It was the best part time job in Canada in my opinion. Four guys makes for multiple resources in the flight deck during ground operations. Too much of anything however becomes a bit boring. One nice thing at AC is that you have a variety of positions to choose from throughout your career and one person's heaven can be another's hell. So not everyone is vying for the same spot.

On the narrow body side, you are often doing multiple legs through the same frontal systems, much more time on the ground spent de icing, dealing with incompetent station turnarounds and generally much less productive. Also a good assortment of red eyes. No extra crew members to provide assistance when the workload gets high. If you are junior, plan on 16 days a month at work. However, if you like flying and dealing with challenges vs sitting around doing hourly fuel checks, then it is a good gig.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. If you commute however, a long haul position is a no brainer.

As far as upgrades or available positions, pretty much anything is available at the bottom of all equipment. This is because life at the bottom is very very different from life at the top. The only thing in Canada that is not taxable these days is your time off and more and more people are realizing this, so wont bid a position until they can be assured of having a life. However, some will chase airplanes or money, no matter what. As an example, take the 737 Max. Number one Captain has a 400 series seniority number vs the bottom guy, almost 3000 numbers junior.

This is one thing I love about AC at the moment. Lots of variety and choices. The biggest stress is " what should I bid? " Nice problem to have in my opinion.
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AOW
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Re: Upgrade times and pay.

Post by AOW »

I have been trying to get a picture of up to date pay figures for AC. I found the CBA on the Ontario ministry of labour website, and I think I figured out how the pay works.

Can anybody who actually knows confirm that I have done this right? For simplicity, I assumed no nav pay for the EMJ and A320, and 100% overseas pay for the widebodies. Everything is based on 1/2 day, 1/2 night. I got the Rouge numbers from LOU 74, but the flat pay numbers don't match... it seems they used the same numbers as in the mainline contract, not factoring in the 2011 and 2012 increases, so those numbers are about 7% less than the mainline numbers. I also see that the Rouge B767 Captain pay is less than the Roge A319 Captain pay for the first 4 steps... is this a typo?

I assumed 2% increases per year for 2016 and 2017, as the CBA only had figures up to 2015.

I also recall hearing that the RP pay is a status pay now, so are my RP numbers wrong?

Thanks!

Code: Select all

Captain									
		EMJ	A320	B767	A330	B787	B777		A319LCC	B767LCC
1st year 	$154.20	$190.50	$233.95	$249.12	$253.56	$277.25		$144.92	$132.08
2nd year 	$156.09	$192.39	$235.84	$251.01	$255.45	$279.13		$149.87	$140.14
3rd year 	$157.98	$194.27	$237.72	$252.90	$257.34	$281.02		$154.75	$148.30
4th year 	$159.89	$196.18	$239.63	$254.81	$259.25	$282.93		$159.49	$156.53
5th year 	$161.70	$198.00	$241.45	$256.62	$261.06	$284.75		$164.36	$164.67
6th year 	$163.66	$199.96	$243.41	$258.58	$263.02	$286.70		$169.40	$172.79
7th year 	$165.50	$201.80	$245.25	$260.42	$264.86	$288.54		$176.22	$181.00
8th year 	$167.48	$203.78	$247.23	$262.40	$266.84	$290.52		$182.98	$189.07
9th year 	$169.37	$205.66	$249.11	$264.29	$268.73	$292.41		$189.89	$197.24
10th year 	$171.27	$207.56	$251.01	$266.19	$270.63	$294.31		$196.61	$203.25
11th year 	$173.14	$209.44	$252.89	$268.06	$272.50	$296.18		$197.78	$203.25
12th year	$175.03	$211.32	$254.77	$269.95	$274.39	$298.07		$199.03	$203.25
									
									
First Officer									
		EMJ	A320	B767	A330	B787	B777		A319LCC	B767LCC
1st year 	$56.05	$56.05	$56.05	$56.05	$56.05	$56.05		$52.33	$52.33
2nd year 	$61.88	$61.88	$61.88	$61.88	$61.88	$61.88		$57.77	$57.77
3rd year 	$71.21	$71.21	$71.21	$71.21	$71.21	$71.21		$66.49	$66.49
4th year 	$80.54	$80.54	$80.54	$80.54	$80.54	$80.54		$75.20	$75.20
5th year 	$91.87	$109.29	$130.92	$138.20	$140.33	$151.70		$100.90	$105.47
6th year 	$95.84	$113.81	$135.91	$143.42	$145.62	$157.34		$105.53	$112.27
7th year 	$99.69	$118.20	$140.78	$148.52	$150.78	$162.86		$109.26	$117.62
8th year 	$103.69	$122.75	$145.80	$153.76	$156.09	$168.53		$110.43	$124.81
9th year 	$107.59	$127.19	$150.72	$158.91	$161.31	$174.10		$110.43	$130.22
10th year 	$111.50	$131.65	$155.65	$164.07	$166.54	$179.68		$110.43	$130.22
11th year 	$115.39	$136.08	$160.56	$169.21	$171.74	$185.24		$110.43	$130.22
12th year 	$119.29	$140.53	$165.48	$174.35	$176.95	$190.81		$110.43	$130.22
									
									
Relief Pilot									
				B767	A330	B787	B777			
1st year 			$56.05	$56.05	$56.05	$56.05			
2nd year 			$61.88	$61.88	$61.88	$61.88			
3rd year 			$71.21	$71.21	$71.21	$71.21			
4th year 			$80.54	$80.54	$80.54	$80.54			
5th year 			$88.32	$92.57	$93.81	$100.44			
6th year 			$92.30	$96.70	$97.99	$104.86			
7th year 			$96.16	$100.72	$102.05	$109.15			
8th year 			$100.17	$104.87	$106.25	$113.59			
9th year 			$104.08	$108.93	$110.35	$117.93			
10th year 			$108.00	$113.01	$114.47	$122.29			
11th year 			$109.87	$114.88	$116.35	$124.16			
12th year			$111.76	$116.77	$118.23	$126.05			
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Victory
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Re: Upgrade times and pay.

Post by Victory »

Level Change wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:18 am I would be in the bunk for a three hour nap, fly for three hours and then back into the bunk for another 3 hour nap before coming back to the flight deck.
Would long haul be a terrible idea for someone that's never been a napper?
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RVR6000
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Re: Upgrade times and pay.

Post by RVR6000 »

'97 Tercel wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:40 pm So I've heard new hires are being told that if they don't have any jet time in the last 2 years they can't bid for the 737. (Because AC doesn't want to do circuits with them?)

Anyone know more about this??
Currently there is no certified Level D 737Max sim in the world, according to a manager I was speaking with. AC expects its certification in Fall 2018. Once the sim is level D certified they’ll remove the restriction.

They had imposed a jet time restriction on bidding the 767 new hire positio as well few years ago, not sure if it still applies.
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