Swoop pilot hiring.

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privateer
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by privateer »

Unreal what management pulled today. It is unrealistic to expect a contract for lower wages given the current environment and within the time span WJ had to start up Swoop. GS is right, there won't be a contract in 2018. This puppy is clearly going to arbitration.
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landshark
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by landshark »

Well, this is what no contract for years looks like... Jet Blue use to be one of the airlines that had similar values to WestJet.
https://www.boston.com/culture/travel/2 ... ournal/amp
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TwotterBerries
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by TwotterBerries »

For all those pilots who don't think this affects them. Think Again. Next step will be an application for foreign pilots. If you think GS or now WestJet is beyond this. Think again. GS has proven that stock value and cheap labor will come at all costs. This will trickle down. At a time when the industry is improving wages and conditions. The actions of GS are something we all should be disgusted with. If this happens at WJ. It will occur at your shop down the road.
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TwotterBerries
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by TwotterBerries »

For those pilots who don't believe this affects them. You may want to think again. GS and and company have proven that they will not stop at anything to drive wages down. They have crossed a line today and when they cannot find enough pilots to fly at Swoop . Wages will not rise at swoop. GS will petition the government for foreign pilots. If he hasn't done already. This will affect us all. Don't underestimate what GS will try. When a CEO promises lower wages all will turn a blind eye in the public and government. So Who will stand up for pilots if not pilots themselves?
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RB211
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by RB211 »

...Everyone will have reasons for "progressing" their careers and accepting what Swoop is offering, and I will never judge a fellow pilot for making the choice that they do for the benefit of them and their family...
Fully agree. I find it absurd that pilots want to blacklist others that don't sacrifice their own career opportunities for the sake of others. Other pilots they may well not even know. If you ask and expect such a commitment, what support/benefit will be extended to those making the sacrifice.

In this case, I would ask, what sacrifice will senior pilots at WJ make to help the career progression of a 7 year FO like jazzyboy? Will you retire early to make room for their upgrade?

Can those asking for such support honestly look back on their own career choices and say the decisions they made always considered the greater industry ahead of their own wellbeing?

The industry is in the state it is in due primarily to airline management. That is who the fight is with if there is an enemy. Expecting others to carry that fight for you, likely to their own detriment, is unreasonable. If Swoop happens, as it seems it will, the WJ pilots have to admit they were out flanked by their management. Dust yourselves off, regroup and find a workable strategy to address the issues.

You're not the first group to be screwed by this industry and, sadly, not likely the last.
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yyc757
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by yyc757 »

I feel betrayed.

Why would anyone take one of these jobs?

I took this job on the basis of trust and goodwill and based on pireps from friends. There is no trust. There is no goodwill. There is no integrity. After close to 8 years senior management decided the relationship between myself and WestJet didn't matter. They suddenly threw out my years of hard work, dedication, loyalty and professionalism. It literally doesn't matter that I prevented crashes and death from happening. All the red eyes and early morning Halifax departures don't matter. The times where I pushed through long days of demanding conditions with MELs, bad weather, slippery runways, extended duty days...all a wash. All the frantic grooming between tight turn arounds in order to get back to sched all for not. The crappy pay and paying my dues yet again.... worthless.

I feel betrayed.

For anyone considering Swoop consider this. I trusted them and this is what happened. Do you think you can trust them?

For diadem I hope you hear this. (Unless you are mister multiple personality NCP or John wing suit airspeed indicator trying to manipulate folks with your pathetic attempts of psychology with that shallow perspective on fear and greed then wallow in your hevel) yes... hevel.
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mel gibson
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by mel gibson »

Pilot Recruitment Team
Air Canada
P.O. Box 6002
Pearson International Airport
Toronto AMF, ON
L5P 1B4
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by telex »

yyc757 wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:50 am I feel betrayed.

Why would anyone take one of these jobs?

I took this job on the basis of trust and goodwill and based on pireps from friends. There is no trust. There is no goodwill. There is no integrity. After close to 8 years senior management decided the relationship between myself and WestJet didn't matter. They suddenly threw out my years of hard work, dedication, loyalty and professionalism. It literally doesn't matter that I prevented crashes and death from happening. All the red eyes and early morning Halifax departures don't matter. The times where I pushed through long days of demanding conditions with MELs, bad weather, slippery runways, extended duty days...all a wash. All the frantic grooming between tight turn arounds in order to get back to sched all for not. The crappy pay and paying my dues yet again.... worthless.

I feel betrayed.

For anyone considering Swoop consider this. I trusted them and this is what happened. Do you think you can trust them?

For diadem I hope you hear this. (Unless you are mister multiple personality NCP or John wing suit airspeed indicator trying to manipulate folks with your pathetic attempts of psychology with that shallow perspective on fear and greed then wallow in your hevel) yes... hevel.
You actually believed your employer had your best interests in mind?
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TheStig
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by TheStig »

jazzyboy wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:28 pm I don't post a lot on here, but today this topic hits a lot closer to home for me. I am that 7 year FO at WJ who is eagerly waiting for his upgrade. I can only say that I can echo the words of WJ200....This is a very sad day for us WestJetters, and the whole airline industry in Canada. I am shocked at the direction that WJ management has chosen to go with the implementation of Swoop. Talk about a major hit against your pilots and flight attendants in order to save a few hundred dollars per hour. These are the only 2 employee groups taking the hit....every other group will be "contracted" by WestJet. What a joke.....Lets be honest here, a couple hundred dollars per hour saved by WestJet on the crews is not going to make or break this operation.

I can't believe that things have gone this direction at WJ, I've always been envious of the relationship pilot shared with their management and executives (up until the GS era). My friends on the teal team would just shake their heads in disbelief as I described memos that were issued, disciplinary actions and the events that led up to FOS.

Westjet pilots deserve better than this. This isn't happening because you've voted to unionize, this why it's so important you did. I hope you're receiving updates from your representatives to stay informed and unified.

I believe pilots are easy targets because of our tendency to put our company and passengers (aka guests, no need for google translate:) needs above our own. We're all hard working and take satisfaction in doing our jobs well. Take it from someone who has been down this path, I wouldn't be so worried about future Swoop pilots undermining your future right now as your current colleagues. Stay together on this one, you deserve better than the hand you've been dealt, not concessions to keep what already is yours.
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Ah_yeah »

Agreed with The Stig. Been down this road on the Red side. Stick together...never fracture. If GS wants to jeopardize a great operation that rewards shareholders well for the sake of a dubious business plan, his job is more at risk than yours. You guys are longer term stakeholders than he is. Best of luck to my professional peers at WJA.
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47north
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by 47north »

yyc757 wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:50 am
The times where I pushed through long days of demanding conditions with MELs, bad weather, slippery runways, extended duty days...all a wash. All the frantic grooming between tight turn arounds in order to get back to sched all for not.
It always amazes me that the bean counters can't grasp the fact that pilots are integral in operating efficiently. Think of all the ways a pilot can influence the operations. Low drag approaches - yeah I think I'll put put full flap on every landing and 10-15 miles back just to be safe. Single-engine taxi - not for me thanks, too much work. Kind of bumpy at FL350, think I'll pick FL250 today. That approach looked unstable to me, I think we should go around and try it again. Max braking - absolutely and I like to ride those brakes and apply them often to keep them warm. That complicated MEL, it's gonna take me a lot of time to figure that one out - sorry about the missed connections. This list goes on...

Any perceived savings at Scoop can be easily offset by a less 'motivated' group at WestJet. Better for everyone to work together. Westjet seems to have lost their way on valuing and engaging their employees and it will be to the detriment of the entire corporation. I don't think I would be buying shares anytime soon.
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RB211
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by RB211 »

47north wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:13 am
yyc757 wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:50 am
The times where I pushed through long days of demanding conditions with MELs, bad weather, slippery runways, extended duty days...all a wash. All the frantic grooming between tight turn arounds in order to get back to sched all for not.
It always amazes me that the bean counters can't grasp the fact that pilots are integral in operating efficiently. Think of all the ways a pilot can influence the operations. Low drag approaches - yeah I think I'll put put full flap on every landing and 10-15 miles back just to be safe. Single-engine taxi - not for me thanks, too much work. Kind of bumpy at FL350, think I'll pick FL250 today. That approach looked unstable to me, I think we should go around and try it again. Max braking - absolutely and I like to ride those brakes and apply them often to keep them warm. That complicated MEL, it's gonna take me a lot of time to figure that one out - sorry about the missed connections. This list goes on...

Any perceived savings at Scoop can be easily offset by a less 'motivated' group at WestJet. Better for everyone to work together. Westjet seems to have lost their way on valuing and engaging their employees and it will be to the detriment of the entire corporation. I don't think I would be buying shares anytime soon.
I think you answered your initial question/statement with 'bean counters'. They can only see what is on a spreadsheet. They have shown a distinct inability to value the intangibles. In this industry and others.
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Jimmy2 »

I don't think sabotaging your own company is the right plan. Is there anything stopping them from moving the entire operation to Swoop? I'd be trying to prove there is still a reason for them to keep Westjet around.
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by infiniteregulus »

Unfortunately many employed there have vested interest in the company's performance, a la stocks. Not sure if kiboshing performance metrics in the interest of a political statement will be a thing. Doubt many Westjetters feel like "owners" anymore :roll: . Trust in business is a curiously fickle and interesting concept and business is much like war in that it can be ruthless with sacrifices and aims to achieve an ultimate supreme goal - money. Even the most philanthropic manager or CEO will not put an employee above a company unless it will directly feed into the corporate success. Companies are NOT in business to provide a workplace for people. They are in business to make money and that's the bottom line. Finding the right balance between corporate growth and employee relations, all the while maintaining a level of ethical practice however, is the key to any successful CEO. But trust me in saying that NEVER should the words of a corporation be taken in faith without questioning the underlying motive. As Sun Tzu is quoted from the Art of War, "All war is deception".
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by '97 Tercel »

Any perceived savings at Scoop can be easily offset by a less 'motivated' group at WestJet.
Good point - totally true.
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by saltypilot »

It seems quite relevant so I will share with you something that I wrote in one of our WJ WHY surveys a couple years back. This was supposed to be an anonymous and de-identified opportunity to speak our mind so the executive could better take the temperature of our group. It’s very evident they file 14’d my opinion. Anyway, I hope you enjoy.

I came to Westjet because I believe in the core values. I believe in them still.  I regret to say that I have lost faith in our CEO and in large part hold the Chairman of the board responsible.
Westjet was built by the people and it is those same people, namely the frontline operational staff, the troops in the trenches, who are now being wrung out like sponges to extract every last drop of goodwill.  We are tired. We are now showing major signs of fatigue.  Morale in the aircraft, where our guests are supposed to be getting a value added experience, is breaking down. The formula is simple and we've strayed from it.

We look after our people...our people look after our guests...our guests look after our business.

Please leave shareholders out of it...if you follow the above formula I believe that will look after itself.

Here are some suggestions for immediate steps
1. As an entire leadership team please humble yourselves and offer an apology for straying from this. We feel used and undervalued.
2. Approach the working groups and offer to restore & improve wages and working conditions willingly without restraint.
Take home pay...and I’m talking about the dollar amount which enters our bank accounts, MUST be increased.  The nuances of who what when where and why the executive get big compensation increases are lost on the frontline staff and the message received from the top is this..."We deserve MORE & You deserve LESS" all the while being asked to do more without the slightest HINT of dissent lest WE be cast out because WE can't "find our happiness".
3. Communicate, communicate, communicate in a respectful way and OFTEN.  At this point 5 minutes once a month WITH scripted talking points is not sufficient....it was promised and now I feel this needs to be treated like a relationship in restoration where one partner needs constant reassurance and the offending partner needs to be opened and honestly transparent at ALL times to restore the trust.
4. Lift up your people...and not in empty words but with actions of substance. Nothing says you appreciate us more than what you do because in time we will all forget what was said but we will never forget how we were made to feel...tread on this ground with humility and respect.

I have participated in and bore witness to many amazing acts of love and kindness towards our people and our guests in the past 6 years of working for westjet and the majority will never be known to the company, nor do they need to be, but I assure you of this... they have purchased you FAR more goodwill and brand building than advertising will EVER buy you...this can be harnessed by ensuring the troops are WELL FED and fed first.

Simon Sinek describes this far more articulately than I could but read his book “Leaders Eat Last”.

Your troops are ready willing and able to again fall on their swords for their Leaders, to give their all if only they felt valued as people and NOT commodities to be used and traded...people that have personal lives, families that count on them to provide money AND just as important, quality time.

In a day & age where people are being taxed monetarily into the ever loving ground to the tune of over HALF of what is earned and then used until they're too sick to work anymore, be the Westjet I believe it to be at the core...bring back the pride in its people....value THEM above all else. The accountants will never quantify what WE are willing to build for you...As Simon Sinek found troops are willing to give their lives for a Leader who eats last.

Respectfully
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Mostly Harmless »

Image

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. In this case, WestJet's executives have decided the airline they want run is Air Canada under Robert Milton. We all saw it. Why anyone would want to go there is something I don't understand. Bankruptcy, penny stock prices, a demoralized workforce and a public who would do anything rather than fly on Air Canada... an attitude that opened the door for WestJet's very existence.
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by lostaviator »

CB has become the cranky grandpa at Christmas time and thinks we (the employees) have ruined the company. I'd like to ask him who's responsible for the decrease in both employee, AND guest satisfaction with his brand.

We are no longer "friendly". We no longer take care of our guests. We are stretched to the limits.

A bad weather day means our guests wait in line for HOURS to make new plans because we don't have enough airport staff yet we just hired FOUR new VP's?

The front line workers are the ones who have held on the longest to the "old" WestJet while everything changed around them.

Case in point: Satisfaction of guests on our 767 was low.... very low. So we send cabin crew members for more customer service training???? You don't think the problem was with oh say, the planes?

End of non-organized rambling thoughts. But you get the point.
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by TheStig »

lostaviator wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:55 am
A bad weather day means our guests wait in line for HOURS to make new plans because we don't have enough airport staff yet we just hired FOUR new VP's?

End of non-organized rambling thoughts. But you get the point.
Ya, don't get carried away, I mean, I've only ever heard good things about the way Qatar and Etihad treat their employees.

Scott Groh joined WestJet, January 3, in the role of Vice-President, Crew Resources. Scott most recently worked for Qatar Airways as Senior Vice-President, Crew Resources, Flight Operations. Scott also held the position of Vice-President, Crew Resources for Etihad Airways for nine years and has more than 30 years of experience in crew planning, and crew scheduling operations.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com

There is a job ad posted to replace pilots who respond with remarks about how they'd hate to do anything to hurt the share price. Westjet's pilots and FA's will get what they deserve, your executives have shown their hand. All the best, and I mean that sincerely, even you Brooks.
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Air.Field »

infiniteregulus wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:02 am Unfortunately many employed there have vested interest in the company's performance, a la stocks. Not sure if kiboshing performance metrics in the interest of a political statement will be a thing. Doubt many Westjetters feel like "owners" anymore :roll: . Trust in business is a curiously fickle and interesting concept and business is much like war in that it can be ruthless with sacrifices and aims to achieve an ultimate supreme goal - money. Even the most philanthropic manager or CEO will not put an employee above a company unless it will directly feed into the corporate success. Companies are NOT in business to provide a workplace for people. They are in business to make money and that's the bottom line. Finding the right balance between corporate growth and employee relations, all the while maintaining a level of ethical practice however, is the key to any successful CEO. But trust me in saying that NEVER should the words of a corporation be taken in faith without questioning the underlying motive. As Sun Tzu is quoted from the Art of War, "All war is deception".
So, once again it's all about yourself(selves) because any action you take will affect your bottom line $$. So rather than say not grooming or whatever small actions, you choose to have a list to punish other pilots who may have good reason to go to Swoop, rather than use leverage and take a small hit to yourselves to further yours and everyones interest. I maybe wrong, but you sure make it sound like that.
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