Swoop pilot hiring.

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Mostly Harmless
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Mostly Harmless »

DropTanks wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:00 am In fact GGG said as much...
Gennady Gennadyevich Golovkin? The boxer?
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Tacoma
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Tacoma »

GGG. Triple G. 3G The Tan Man = GreGG CEO
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Last edited by Tacoma on Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mostly Harmless
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Mostly Harmless »

Ah... I was not putting that together. Thank you.

I think of him as GS (which rhymes with BS), not GGG. Thought there might be another player in the game I was missing.
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rudder
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by rudder »

altiplano wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:47 am Management may have entertained you with listed working conditions, but they weren't widely enforceable contracts.

Ultimately they could have changed the conditions unilaterally prior to certification... an individual could argue large degradations in conditions or pay equated to constructive dismissal, but that's about it.

You may dispute it or not like it, but it is what it is...
http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/323940/e ... egislation
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altiplano
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by altiplano »

Thanks Rudder... That lays it out fairly well...

All jurisdictions in Canada, including federal, and it's already been through the Supreme Court...
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Transonic
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Transonic »

Realitychex wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:35 am The modelled avg pay is higher than these rates.

Before continuing the discussion, most followers of this thread should spend the time to read and fully digest this document:

https://raymondjames.bluematrix.com/sel ... ource=mail
Thank you for sharing. No doubt a very neat project to work on.

A few questions if you don't mind. WestJet publishes salaries and benefits to be ~22% of operating expenses. This model places it around 16.6% for Swoop. We know Swoop will have a lower FTE ratio due to simplicity but how much of this difference is attributed to reduced salaries in the model?

We've been told to look towards Qantas/Jetstar as an example. Wikipedia states Qantas has 68 737s and Jetstar 61 A320/A321s. Elsewhere, Lufthansa operates 170 A319/320/321s while Eurowings operates 73. At the end of 2019, WestJet should operate 118-130 737s and Swoop 10 737s.

What is wrong with the fear that Swoop grows significantly larger, cannibalizing all P2P routes, reducing mainline WestJet to servicing only those flights that touch YYZ,YYC and YVR? Is this fear legitimate in your mind?

Thanks again. The speculation on route maps and schedule are especially of interest given the void of information out there.

From the above link on page 17.

"...but we think it is wise for them to avoid the "connectivity trap" outlined above and the allusion that direct operating costs of the crew are all that determine a low cost operation."

:prayer:
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Mrbobmarly111
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Mrbobmarly111 »

I plan on applying at Swoop.

So you think itll help if I offer to pay for my own training ? I was also considering to dye my hair hot pink.

But seriously..... do you think itll help?

:prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer:

All Hail the Great god Of SWOOP

MR. Greg

:prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer:
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Mach1
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Mach1 »

I think that dying your hair will put you over the top for sure.

Just in case it doesn't:
Your favourite insulation is Fiberglass Pink
Your favourite cartoon character is The Pink Panther
Your favourite singer is Pink
Your favourite movie is Pretty in Pink and
As far as pay goes you'll take it right in the... palm of your hand which will be painted pink.
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I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!
Mrbobmarly111
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Mrbobmarly111 »

Thanks for all the great tips. :D

Just a FYI for anyone else thinking of applying rumor on the street is theres a guarenteed flow to mainline if you go there. Also you get a great 1 for 1 Employee share purchase program with westjet. The pay is on par if not better than mainline, and youll be everyones hero.

Ps: this comment was written on Jan 18th 2018. The offical backwards day of North America.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

HAPPY SDRAWKCAB DAY!!!!
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mbav8r
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by mbav8r »

Not sure if this was mentioned but I haven’t seen it here, so here it is, hypocrisy at its best.

WESTJET MANAGEMENT FILES UNFAIR LABOUR PRACTICE COMPLAINT AGAINST ALPA
Last April, on the exact day that ALPA filed cards with the Canada Industrial Relations Board to represent the WestJet pilots, the airline announced that it was creating Swoop, an ultra-low-cost carrier.
Late Friday afternoon, WestJet management filed an Unfair Labour Practice complaint against ALPA, claiming that the WestJet MEC has engaged in bad-faith bargaining by asking the International Federation of Air Line Pilots’ Associations to advise member associations about the labor situation and potential for WestJet management to outsource their flying to Swoop.
This situation could have dire ramifications on pilots’ careers. The WestJet MEC encourages all ALPA members who run into any of our WestJet brothers and sisters to please let them know that you support them and appreciate their fighting to uphold our profession.
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Black_Tusk
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Black_Tusk »

Oh the hypocrisy on this site never ends.

Everyone gets their panties in a bunch talking about the regional WAWCON decrease in the last few years and slamming people for taking jobs at Jazz (a company that has been around for a damn long time, and treats it's employees with respect) yet we have people asking about the wages to go be a scab at Swoop... I mean WestJet. Cause let's be honest. It's Westjet.

AvCanada at it's finest.
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HansDietrich
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by HansDietrich »

Black_Tusk wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:28 pm Oh the hypocrisy on this site never ends.

Everyone gets their panties in a bunch talking about the regional WAWCON decrease in the last few years and slamming people for taking jobs at Jazz (a company that has been around for a damn long time, and treats it's employees with respect) yet we have people asking about the wages to go be a scab at Swoop... I mean WestJet. Cause let's be honest. It's Westjet.

AvCanada at it's finest.
To be fair, Jazz was founded in 2001 and Westjet in 1996, which makes WS older than Jazz. True, there was Air Ontario, Air Nova, Air BC, etc. but those were different companies; very different than what Jazz is today. It's simple though. Some people would rather fly a 737NG for 40K than a Dash 8. Is it right? Hell no! Would I do it? Nope. But it does open doors with a 737NG rating on your Aviation Document. It's no different than someone choosing to go to Jazz and flying a CRJ for 40K than sticking it out on a left seat B200 gig that pays $70K a year. There is that possibility of growth.

Everyone weighs their apples and oranges differently. What may be important to you, is not for me or vice versa.
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Black_Tusk
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Black_Tusk »

Yeah I was more so referring to the founding airlines.
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Ah_yeah
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Ah_yeah »

At the end of the day, why should a pilot offer to work for less at the same company in the face of an unbelievable profit streak and record load factors? These two facts make all other "justifications" total BS. There is no need to over analyze this. Dig in, defend your work and remember, you didn't start this fight.
Meanwhile,I'm reasonably confident ACPA will be replaced by ALPA and the nation can get closer to pilot unity in a time when our services are in great demand.
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Black_Tusk
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Black_Tusk »

I would say no.

Same can be said about all the express carriers having shit entry wages while AC makes record profits. We are after all flying the same passengers, on aircraft that say Air Canada on them and uniforms with the maple leaf plastered all over them. It's only a matter of time until the tides will turn. But according to NCP, ALPA will have to be gone before anything good happens.

I would welcome AC to ALPA with open arms. Hopefully all the 50-60 pluses at Jazz can look past their history with AC and not cause problems with things moving forward as one group. All I ever hear is how hard done by they all were by AC in the 90s and a lot of them still hold big grudges. Especially ex Air Ontario.
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HansDietrich
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by HansDietrich »

Black_Tusk wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:33 am ...All I ever hear is how hard done by they all were by AC in the 90s and a lot of them still hold big grudges. Especially ex Air Ontario.
Oh yeah. I've heard this quite a number of times, how some of the old Air Ontario boys have zero love for Air Canada pilots. This is coming from their mouths directly and in from some of the stories I've heard, it's for good reason too. Funny though, the same "injustice" that AC pilots did to them, I could argue that they did to us new guys.

I think the sooner we agree that everyone is in it for themselves, and "pilot unity" is but a wish, the more we can accept the industry. (And I'm pointing the finger at myself and foremost, then everyone else.
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HansDietrich
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by HansDietrich »

HansDietrich wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:48 am
Black_Tusk wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:33 am ...All I ever hear is how hard done by they all were by AC in the 90s and a lot of them still hold big grudges. Especially ex Air Ontario.
Oh yeah. I've heard this quite a number of times, how some of the old Air Ontario boys have zero love for Air Canada pilots. This is coming from their mouths directly and in from some of the stories I've heard, it's for good reason too. Funny though, the same "injustice" that AC pilots did to them, I could argue that they did to us new guys.

I think the sooner we agree that everyone is in it for themselves, and "pilot unity" is but a wish, the more we can accept the industry. (And I'm pointing the finger at myself first and foremost, then everyone else.
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Black_Tusk
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Black_Tusk »

HansDietrich wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:48 am
Black_Tusk wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:33 am ...All I ever hear is how hard done by they all were by AC in the 90s and a lot of them still hold big grudges. Especially ex Air Ontario.
Oh yeah. I've heard this quite a number of times, how some of the old Air Ontario boys have zero love for Air Canada pilots. This is coming from their mouths directly and in from some of the stories I've heard, it's for good reason too. Funny though, the same "injustice" that AC pilots did to them, I could argue that they did to us new guys.

It is ironic, isn't it?
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mbav8r
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by mbav8r »

I really have to ask, how is the fact you, YOU chose to accept the pay at Jazz the same as a group of pilots who agreed to binding arbitration, didn’t like the results and pulled out of the agreement?
You need to take responsibility for your own actions, I didn’t force you to apply or come to Jazz, not one of us held a gun to your head. Seriously, why is it everyone else’s fault that you came here. Maybe you should apply at swoop and then go on about how WJ pilots screwed you over!
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Black_Tusk
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Re: Swoop pilot hiring.

Post by Black_Tusk »

Bruh, do you even read my posts? I am pro Jazz. I am happy here, I knew what I was signing... and it worked out just fine for me.

Doesn't mean we can't try to make it better. I'm not going to be on FO payscale anymore come next week. But that doesn't mean I won't push to make things better for those that come after me.

In regards to the Sr members, any time anyone brings up contract related issues I constantly hear "well you don't know how bad we had it, AC screwed us over, blah blah blah." There are so many pilots at Jazz who are still living in the past and REFUSE to admit there are significant steps we need to take to make our contract better for the new members who join. It's not 2015 anymore, the ball should be in our court but for some reason it's not. The MEC is as silent as ever and great at deflecting when asked questions in meetings. It's easy to be blind to it and say there is no issue when you're not a Table 1 pilot, have a DB pension, J class upgrades etc. Again, I knew what I was signing on for but that DOES NOT mean we can't fight to make it better.

Put some of these Sr guys on Table 1, and take away their J upgrades and DB pension and you can be fucking guaranteed things would change very quickly.
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