Let's all apply at Swoop!

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Rowdy
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Rowdy »

High fives from the lil red alpa guys to all the westjetters that don't put up with GS's BS.
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FICU
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by FICU »

WJ management doesn't want OTS pilots because probably 90% of them will not have an NG type rating. They haven't mentioned a training bond so I don't think Swoop wants to pay all the training costs when they can have WJ pilots crew the pink planes.

They are playing hardball but will have to give in.

Fight on men and women of teal!
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lisascottme
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by lisascottme »

How about you all fight the good fight while I'll take the job build up some time and swoop off to AC in a year or two.
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DrSpaceman
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by DrSpaceman »

lisascottme wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:02 pm
How about you all fight the good fight while I'll take the job build up some time and swoop off to AC in a year or two.
Good luck getting into AC with the hire ban
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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

DrSpaceman wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:51 pm
lisascottme wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:02 pm
How about you all fight the good fight while I'll take the job build up some time and swoop off to AC in a year or two.
Good luck getting into AC with the hire ban
You are dreaming about the "hiring ban"
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lisascottme
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by lisascottme »

DrSpaceman wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:51 pm
lisascottme wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:02 pm
How about you all fight the good fight while I'll take the job build up some time and swoop off to AC in a year or two.
Good luck getting into AC with the hire ban
Are you kidding me - I guess I would be worried if ACPA actually hired pilots but for now and the next 100 years I think I'll be OK swoop, swoop swoop
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fruitloops
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by fruitloops »

Leave of absence - interesting wasn't aware they had that provision

WestJet CEO says it hopes to recruit Swoop pilots from mainline operations

WestJet CEO Gregg Saretsky said earlier this week the airline hopes to recruit pilots from its mainline and Encore services to fly planes for its new ultra low-cost carrier Swoop, but that it will hire externally if necessary—a move that the company’s new pilots union said it is against.

“That matter is in the hands of the Air Line Pilots Association, International,” Saretsky said. “It is a matter that is being discussed at the bargaining table.”

More than 1,400 WestJet pilots joined the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) after 62 per cent of the 97 per cent of eligible pilots voted in May to unionize. Saretsky said under WestJet’s existing contract with pilots, which is in place until a new agreement is ratified, there is a provision that will allow those interested in flying for Swoop to take a leave of absence and do so. Those pilots would still be able to return to WestJet or WestJet Encore after flying Swoop planes, he said. (Source: Financial Times)
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NewCommercialPilot
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by NewCommercialPilot »

ALPA has answered the LOA offer with a clear warning via MEC communication that the seniority list has yet to be negotiated and they cannot guarantee what the implications may be of a LOA to go to S on a WJ pilot's position on that seniority list. I'm not sure what they could do but the waters are a bit murky, unless you are not planning to return to WJ and don't care what ALPA does with seniority.
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tailgunner
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by tailgunner »

Johnny,
You are aware that usually there are 2 ACPA members interviewing each candidate? All it takes is for one of these ACPA members to ring ANY reason NOT to find the candidate a good fit for AC and they will not hire them. So, as you state " what hiring ban?" , but in reality, and especially after ACPA's explicit statement, an effective ban will exist.
Officially, there will not be a ban. Unofficially, there very well could be.....
Unless, as a pilot Swoop is your career job, it is extremely short sighted to burn two bridges....
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by RidersRule »

lisascottme wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:58 pm
DrSpaceman wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:51 pm
lisascottme wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:02 pm
How about you all fight the good fight while I'll take the job build up some time and swoop off to AC in a year or two.
Good luck getting into AC with the hire ban
Are you kidding me - I guess I would be worried if ACPA actually hired pilots but for now and the next 100 years I think I'll be OK swoop, swoop swoop
Like I said before. Fill your boots.

It's seems like an unnecessary risk though. My ACPA comrades can probably verify this, but from what I've heard up too 300 pilots a year are going to be hired at AC for the foreseeable future. Shouldn't be that hard to get an interview there. Are u sure it's worth the risk to go to Swoop and the whole blacklist issue with ACPA guys sitting in the interview. Decisions decisions.
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NewCommercialPilot
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by NewCommercialPilot »

tailgunner wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:36 pm
Johnny,
You are aware that usually there are 2 ACPA members interviewing each candidate? All it takes is for one of these ACPA members to ring ANY reason NOT to find the candidate a good fit for AC and they will not hire them. So, as you state " what hiring ban?" , but in reality, and especially after ACPA's explicit statement, an effective ban will exist.
Officially, there will not be a ban. Unofficially, there very well could be.....
Unless, as a pilot Swoop is your career job, it is extremely short sighted to burn two bridges....
I wonder if that isn't bordering on some kind of anti-competitive behaviour on the part of employees of the dominant competitor in the airline sector in Canada? If I were WestJet I would be looking to the courts to issue a cease and desist order to ALPA.

Perhaps tomorrow will bring some news on this front...
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NewCommercialPilot
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by NewCommercialPilot »

And as evidence of the coercive tactics of ALPA and its accomplice ACPA, I would look no further than this forum for evidence of the actions of professed Air Canada employees to influence in an anti-competitive manner the affairs of a new entrant in the airline sector.

You guys are f#cking with the wrong Marine!
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Yycjetdriver »

NewCommercialPilot wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:13 pm
And as evidence of the coercive tactics of ALPA and its accomplice ACPA, I would look no further than this forum for evidence of the actions of professed Air Canada employees to influence in an anti-competitive manner the affairs of a new entrant in the airline sector.

You guys are f#cking with the wrong Marine!
What if..... get this.... I know it may be defficult for some of you to understand....the people applying to Swoop don’t give a Rats A** about AC. While some of you may think this is not possible and totally flawd. How about really looking in the mirror and considering starting FO pay at AC is about 9% or more less than year one FO pay at Swoop. If that in the first 3 years at Swoop you will make significantly more than your first 3 years at AC.
Is everyone who goes to AC scabs for accepting what after reading this forum is significantly less than sub par.
“Hey everyone, don’t go to the sub par pay company cause the company who will pay you even less to start will look down on you for accepting that sub par pay”. Makes sense.
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saltypilot
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by saltypilot »

:lol: this is some entertaining bassackwards pageantry. Keep it up.
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by altiplano »

NewCommercialPilot wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:13 pm
You guys are f#cking with the wrong Marine!
Are you a Marine now?
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DrSpaceman
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by DrSpaceman »

You guys go ahead and undermine the conditions of all Canadian pilots, don't come crying when we all close the doors to you when you realize it's not a career company in a few years... or months!
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by CaptainHaddock »

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:17 pm
NewCommercialPilot wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:13 pm
And as evidence of the coercive tactics of ALPA and its accomplice ACPA, I would look no further than this forum for evidence of the actions of professed Air Canada employees to influence in an anti-competitive manner the affairs of a new entrant in the airline sector.

You guys are f#cking with the wrong Marine!
What if..... get this.... I know it may be defficult for some of you to understand....the people applying to Swoop don’t give a Rats A** about AC. While some of you may think this is not possible and totally flawd. How about really looking in the mirror and considering starting FO pay at AC is about 9% or more less than year one FO pay at Swoop. If that in the first 3 years at Swoop you will make significantly more than your first 3 years at AC.
Is everyone who goes to AC scabs for accepting what after reading this forum is significantly less than sub par.
“Hey everyone, don’t go to the sub par pay company cause the company who will pay you even less to start will look down on you for accepting that sub par pay”. Makes sense.
I believe guys/gals are going left seat on the embraer within 2 years at AC in YYZ these days, so you could already make more at AC within 3 years. As the years go by you would be vastly ahead at AC AND you would have way better working conditions from day one. (Pension, travel benefits, paid for health/dental benefits, loss of licence, trip regs, it just goes on and on). But you are correct, working your up to 90 hours hard time as a skipper at Swoop you would make more for 2-3 years than an FO at AC. I am guessing it would pretty close once you factor in all the rest though and that you would not be flying 90 hours hard time there. And each year after that at AC you would be quickly leaving the Swoop renumeration well behind.
Both sides of the WestJet management and pilots have filed their complaints and the clock is ticking now, so all will be revealed over the next 60-90 days. So you might be the first one in on a 30-40 aircraft airline with pole position and have the ULCC world by the tail-living the sweet life of 80-90 hours of hard time a month. Or you might get hired and after the dust settles be a First Officer on the Q400, but you would upgrade there in a few years and then go on to make more than a skipper at Swoop then too.
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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

It's "remuneration ". Been saying and spelling it wrong my whole life!
You're welcome :mrgreen:
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Yycjetdriver »

CaptainHaddock wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:15 pm
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:17 pm
NewCommercialPilot wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:13 pm
And as evidence of the coercive tactics of ALPA and its accomplice ACPA, I would look no further than this forum for evidence of the actions of professed Air Canada employees to influence in an anti-competitive manner the affairs of a new entrant in the airline sector.

You guys are f#cking with the wrong Marine!
What if..... get this.... I know it may be defficult for some of you to understand....the people applying to Swoop don’t give a Rats A** about AC. While some of you may think this is not possible and totally flawd. How about really looking in the mirror and considering starting FO pay at AC is about 9% or more less than year one FO pay at Swoop. If that in the first 3 years at Swoop you will make significantly more than your first 3 years at AC.
Is everyone who goes to AC scabs for accepting what after reading this forum is significantly less than sub par.
“Hey everyone, don’t go to the sub par pay company cause the company who will pay you even less to start will look down on you for accepting that sub par pay”. Makes sense.
I believe guys/gals are going left seat on the embraer within 2 years at AC in YYZ these days, so you could already make more at AC within 3 years. As the years go by you would be vastly ahead at AC AND you would have way better working conditions from day one. (Pension, travel benefits, paid for health/dental benefits, loss of licence, trip regs, it just goes on and on). But you are correct, working your up to 90 hours hard time as a skipper at Swoop you would make more for 2-3 years than an FO at AC. I am guessing it would pretty close once you factor in all the rest though and that you would not be flying 90 hours hard time there. And each year after that at AC you would be quickly leaving the Swoop renumeration well behind.
Both sides of the WestJet management and pilots have filed their complaints and the clock is ticking now, so all will be revealed over the next 60-90 days. So you might be the first one in on a 30-40 aircraft airline with pole position and have the ULCC world by the tail-living the sweet life of 80-90 hours of hard time a month. Or you might get hired and after the dust settles be a First Officer on the Q400, but you would upgrade there in a few years and then go on to make more than a skipper at Swoop then too.
Listen I’m not one of the few applying to Swoop.
However I just feel there’s a lot of people, yourself include using a lot of if’s and when’s to justify taking terrible pay, that we’ve all concluded is less than sub par. While sitting there and hypocritically bashing someone else for taking a slightly higher crap pay.
Neither company is paying what deserves to be paid, both companies are going to benefit greatly off the sacrifices of desperate pilots, but AC is less to blame because of potential future earnings? Potential future earnings don’t feed families or pay bills.
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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

Hey, those sub par wages are called "paying your dues!"
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Yycjetdriver »

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:14 am
Hey, those sub par wages are called "paying your dues!"
Soooo the guys with thousands of hours, who have been in the industry for many years and slugged it out in some of the worst 702/703/704 jobs, need to pay their dues? All while flying state of the art jets and while their employer makes record profits? Is that what you’re saying?
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

I knew I should have put [sarcasm] in there. It is not what I am saying, it is what the pilots at the top of the heap were thinking when the voted to pay themselves more.
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by altiplano »

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:04 am
it is what the pilots at the top of the heap were thinking when the voted to pay themselves more.
Revisionist history here ^ ^ ^...

As has been stated on this thread and is fact AC Pilots did not vote in the subpar new hire pay, they voted it down and then the government forced it on them... Since then they have made sacrifices trying to "fix" the situation, pension, YOS pay on upgrades, etc.

Point fingers at Lisa Raitt & Stephen Harper if you want too blame someone. The majority held the line on that.

You may also notice in the 737/320 pay thread that, today, AC 320 Captains, make about the same as they did in 2003. Hardly voting to pay themselves more at others' expense.
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Last edited by altiplano on Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

altiplano
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by altiplano »

Nice to see WestJet ALPA representing their members.

https://youtu.be/YyUXQeGAI4o

I wouldn't leave any half decent job for Swoop...

When the injunction comes down it will be pulled out from under you.
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lisascottme
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by lisascottme »

DrSpaceman wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:45 pm
You guys go ahead and undermine the conditions of all Canadian pilots, don't come crying when we all close the doors to you when you realize it's not a career company in a few years... or months!

Thanks -I will BTW I bet the hundreds of pilots at Jazz sleep fine at night knowing the lowered the bar when they took the RJ's from AC, maybe they woke up in a cold sweat when AGL did the same to them. I dont see the Encore guys all a twitter because they lowered the bar at the regionals
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