Avgas

[Big Pistons Forever]

Who's bright idea was it to rely nearly entirely on one supplier??

I expect because it is such a low volume product Industry decided to consolidate all production in one place to make it economically viable. FWIW I was told the petroleum industry doesn’t even call call Avgas “gasoline” it is is referred to as a specialty chemical product.

[SuperchargedRS]

Who's bright idea was it to rely nearly entirely on one supplier??

I expect because it is such a low volume product Industry decided to consolidate all production in one place to make it economically viable. FWIW I was told the petroleum industry doesn’t even call call Avgas “gasoline” it is is referred to as a specialty chemical product.

Low volume compared to say auto fuel, but still more than enough of a need, especially in places most of Canada or Alaska, that one shouldn't put all their eggs in one basket.

[PilotDAR]

Back when I worked in the gas for airplanes business, I was told that avgas production was .025% of gasoline production, with all other product being conventional gasoline of some type. Though both fuels burn in spark ignition internal combustion engines, avgas is not "gasoline" in the conventional sense. So yes, it's a specialty fuel.

Gasoline is a blend of various chemicals, with tolerances for contaminants. Avgas is wholly one mixed chemical. When you spill gasoline on your hand, some of it will evaporate, but a thick, oily residue will be left on your skin. Whereas, avgas will evaporate entirely, 'cause it's all one chemical. I was told by a refiner decades back that there had been a case where 100,000 gallons of molasses had spoiled, and was no longer food safe. They were not allowed to "dump" it, so it was blended off into gasoline at a low enough concentration that it did not take the gasoline off spec for contaminates.

[Broken Slinky]

Back when I worked in the gas for airplanes business, I was told that avgas production was .025% of gasoline production

Would bet that percentage is even lower. I was told that only 1% of the aviation fuel produced in Canada is AvGas, the other 99% is Jet A. Even that number seemed high to me based on the number of jets buzzing around compared to 100LL burners. Compare that to the number of Mogas burners stuck on the 401 any given day, could easily add another 0 to that number.

[RevT]

Who's bright idea was it to rely nearly entirely on one supplier??

I expect because it is such a low volume product Industry decided to consolidate all production in one place to make it economically viable. FWIW I was told the petroleum industry doesn’t even call call Avgas “gasoline” it is is referred to as a specialty chemical product.

I used to work for a competitor of Imperial's. The "industry" didn't decide anything. The market is what it is and the individual companies in the space made their decisions accordingly. When I participated in strategy sessions, we always discussed whether we should get into Avgas (we called it "Avgas") but decided that it wasn't the best play for us. My former employer could decide differently tomorrow and I suspect other companies make the same types of decisions.

[PilotDAR]

I think that .025% is 1/4 of 1%. Did I get my small numbers wrong?

[RevT]

Back when I worked in the gas for airplanes business, I was told that avgas production was .025% of gasoline production

Would bet that percentage is even lower. I was told that only 1% of the aviation fuel produced in Canada is AvGas, the other 99% is Jet A. Even that number seemed high to me based on the number of jets buzzing around compared to 100LL burners. Compare that to the number of Mogas burners stuck on the 401 any given day, could easily add another 0 to that number.

You need not guess - StatsCan publishes the data.

http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?la ... +products

[jschnurr]

I think that .025% is 1/4 of 1%. Did I get my small numbers wrong?

0.25% is 1/4 of 1%

0.025% is 1/40.

You need not guess - StatsCan publishes the data.

http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?la ... +products

Taking Nov 2017, the amount of "Aviation turbo fuel" is 462,432. The amount of "Aviation gasoline" is 8,373. "Total refined petroleum products" is 9,192,621.

100LL is about 1.77% of total aviation fuel, and only 0.091% of total refined petroleum products (about 1/1000).

[photofly]

I think that .025% is 1/4 of 1%. Did I get my small numbers wrong?

[PilotDAR]

Ooo, it's lucky that I fuel with direct fuel pump readings, rather than my percentage calculations!

[7ECA]

Seems the story from Esso keeps changing. Now it's only deliveries from December 28th - and apparently the majority of these deliveries are to airports/distributors in Western Canada.

I still question how the hell it is possible that it took this long to note a quality control issue...

[milotron]

Have any actual performance issues or damage been noted? I have flown with this fuel several times in the last month with no issues, but I have float type level sensors.

Hopefully it is not a bunch of ethanol in the blend.

Is anyone staying grounded because of this?

[Cessna 180]

I highly doubt there's ethanol in the blend (and it would be very easy to test). Ethanol is blended at the distribution hub, not at the refinery nor is it sent by pipeline. I'd be very surprised if it was possible for them to blend ethanol in a product that is substantially different than car gasoline (for the most part).

[superbilly24]

180039 CYQM MONCTON/GREATER MONCTON R.LEBLANC INTL
CYQM FUEL 100LL NOT AVBL
1802161341 TIL 1802171600

We've been grounded since Thursday in Moncton. I guess all the fuel comes from that one refinery in Alberta.

[Pavese]

180078 CYHZ DEBERT
CCQ3 FUEL 100LL NOT AVBL
1802162035 TIL APRX 1802231500

[SuperchargedRS]

180039 CYQM MONCTON/GREATER MONCTON R.LEBLANC INTL
CYQM FUEL 100LL NOT AVBL
1802161341 TIL 1802171600

We've been grounded since Thursday in Moncton. I guess all the fuel comes from that one refinery in Alberta.

You guys can't tanker in fuel from elsewhere?

[milotron]

180039 CYQM MONCTON/GREATER MONCTON R.LEBLANC INTL
CYQM FUEL 100LL NOT AVBL
1802161341 TIL 1802171600

We've been grounded since Thursday in Moncton. I guess all the fuel comes from that one refinery in Alberta.

Are you grounded due to lack of fuel, or to fear of damage or operational issues?

[7ECA]

They're grounded, because they've likely received fuel produced at Esso's Edmonton refinery. The instruction from Esso is to immediately quarantine all suspect fuel - as use of it is prohibited due to the conductivity issues.

[who me ?]

They're grounded, because they've likely received fuel produced at Esso's Edmonton refinery. The instruction from Esso is to immediately quarantine all suspect fuel - as use of it is prohibited due to the conductivity issues.

Curious, where you found , “ as use of it is prohibited due to conductivity issues” quote?

[YYC650]

Is there actually any prohibition on the use of this fuel, if it is already in your aircraft? We've filled up our RV-7a at Springbank several times since December 28, and haven't observed any issues. Is there any reason why we can't fly off the fuel that is currently in the tanks?