Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

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pelmet
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Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by pelmet »

Amazing.

"C-GJZA, a Bombardier DHC-8-400 operated by Jazz Aviation LP, was conducting flight JZA8585 from Saskatoon/John G. Diefenbaker Intl, SK (CYXE) to Calgary Intl, AB (CYYC) with 4 crew members and 78 passengers on board. Prior to departure from CYXE, the aircraft was de-iced using Type I fluid to remove ice that had accumulated on the previous flight. Shortly after departing CYXE, a passenger reported to a cabin crew member that flames were coming from the left engine tailpipe (Pratt and Whitney Canada PW150A). The cabin crew member observed the flames and notified the flight crew. The flight crew had no fire warnings or indications and did not shutdown the engine. An emergency was declared and the aircraft returned to CYXE with ARFF on standby.

JZA8585 landed on Runway 27, the engines were shutdown, and the flight crew initiated a rapid deplanement of the aircraft. ARFF checked the aircraft with thermal cameras and determined there was no fire, nor excessive heat in the left engine or brakes. The operator's maintenance subsequently inspected the aircraft and found no signs of a defect or source for the flames."
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Victory
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by Victory »

Why is it bad info? What would happen if Type 1 touches a hot exhaust?
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pelmet
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by pelmet »

Victory wrote: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:36 pm Why is it bad info? What would happen if Type 1 touches a hot exhaust?
I suspect nothing. Never seen any flammability warnings or restrictions around engine or APU exhausts. No doubt fluids have been touching exhaust for years and thousands of times.

TKS stuff used in light aircraft is different.
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pelmet
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by pelmet »

Reminds me of a time I was flying when we had some fumes in the aircraft. It turned out that they likely came from the engine. The word we got from the F/A was...."smoke, really bad in the cabin". Likely never was anything visible. Fumes more likely. Clarification can be helpful. "What colour is the smoke?" is what I should have said.
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Last edited by pelmet on Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by rookiepilot »

I'm not getting the point.

2 people observed what looked like flames. Flight crew notified.

There were no warnings, So --

2 choices. One of the flight crew could have left the FD to make their own observation,

OR --

Do exactly what they did.

IF I see flames from anywhere as a commercial pax should I keep my mouth shut then?

I don't get the issue of being better safe than sorry. Isn't that supposed to be correct? :rolleyes:

From my understanding it's not the job of pax or cabin crew to assess information that might affect safety -- only pass on information. it's the flight crews job to assess.
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pelmet
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by pelmet »

rookiepilot wrote: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:19 pm I'm not getting the point.
My only real point is.......to give an example of the quality of information one might get from the cabin and to consider that before assessing.

There is no comment on what the flight deck crew did which seems quite reasonable although your suggestion of a pilot taking a look is an option.

Just be aware of trusting the info you are given, including by a flight crew member in the back. It may be very exaggerated and extremely exaggerated from a passenger.

How many times do we hear endless, repeated OMG's associated with panic mode from some people in certain situations kind of like in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJyJrS_YToo
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Heliian
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by Heliian »

If an experienced FA says that there are flames out the pipe, then there are probably flames out the pipe.

If the pilot wanted to, he could have checked himself but as they are a crew working together then he had no reason to believe that the information was bad.

Any flames out the pipe is not good, regardless of exaggeration.

Why are you all bunched up about this?
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by AirFrame »

pelmet wrote: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:36 pm My only real point is.......to give an example of the quality of information one might get from the cabin and to consider that before assessing.
I would hope that when i'm flying commercially (in the back) that my pilot would take anything an FA passed on at face value. Even if the FA is wrong, I don't want to be on the flight when the FA was right and the pilot said "well, these instruments say you're wrong, so we'll ignore you".
...your suggestion of a pilot taking a look is an option.
This would seem to make the most sense but is that possible in this age of locked cabin doors?
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pelmet
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by pelmet »

We had a case of an evacuation due to smoke in the cabin. The smoke turned out to be muffins in the oven.

My point once again, just like the mysterious flames and personal example I had with some A/C fumes being called heavy smoke, be cautious of the info you are given by cabin crew.

Some may be hurt if I say this but, there is the occasional ‘ditz’ out there with little aviation experience aside from basic F/A training and cabin service.

You might want to confirm things if not backed up by a warning.

There is an difference between confirming and ignoring. Trust but verify was a famous quote.
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Heliian
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by Heliian »

Smoke and fire will kill everyone on board really quick, you don't have a lot of time to make a decision and get down safe.
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by rookiepilot »

pelmet wrote: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:13 am
You might want to confirm things if not backed up by a warning.

There is an difference between confirming and ignoring.
Then why didn't they confirm it?
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Broken Slinky
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by Broken Slinky »

I'm of the opinion that if someone said that they saw fire, I'm getting the bird on the ground ASAP. I'm not taking a stroll through the cabin to verify it. Even if it turned out to be the strobes or sun lighting up the deicing fluid I'd prefer to be back on terra firma.
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by 7ECA »

pelmet wrote: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:13 am Some may be hurt if I say this but, there is the occasional ‘ditz’ out there with little aviation experience aside from basic F/A training and cabin service.
I didn't realize that "aviation experience" was necessary to recognize smoke or fire. Shame on me... :roll:
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by rookiepilot »

pelmet wrote: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:36 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:19 pm I'm not getting the point.


How many times do we hear endless, repeated OMG's associated with panic mode from some people in certain situations kind of like in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJyJrS_YToo
I'm not getting how whatever pax panic is posted on the video -- has any relation to 2 people independently seeing flames out an engine and reporting that to the Captain -- oh never mind--
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by confusedalot »

It has now become a fact of life that you have react to anything that any passenger or back end crew member says.

I find the whole situation rather odd, never heard of such a thing such as flames out of the tailpipe in cruise (not to be confused with a tailpipe fire on startup) after flying 3500 hours in a dash 8, but whatever, the people saw what they saw, and you as the person sitting in the pointy end must come up with the most safe course of action. And keep your butt out of the court system. That is our litigious society.

Have had people raising the alarm for the sound of hydraulic pumps operating, seeing water flow outside because of condensation and precipitation, thinking it was a fuel leak, tires that were worn (dash 8, where passengers can see them), a person who witnessed a mechanic accessing a sterile jetway area and thought he was a terrorist, and on and on and on.......

We live in a paranoid world.
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by pelmet »

confusedalot wrote: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:25 pm

Have had people raising the alarm for the sound of hydraulic pumps operating, seeing water flow outside because of condensation and precipitation, thinking it was a fuel leak, tires that were worn (dash 8, where passengers can see them), a person who witnessed a mechanic accessing a sterile jetway area and thought he was a terrorist, and on and on and on.......

We live in a paranoid world.
Exactly right. And there is no shortage of bad info out there. And judging from the responses that I have seen on this thread, it is inevitable that we will see an incident at some point where the info was taken at face value and in the desire to supposedly take the supposedly safest course of action, ie....getting on the ground as fast as possible, someone is going to crash off the end of a slippery short runway over their max landing weight.
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Last edited by pelmet on Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Maynard
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by Maynard »

Heliian wrote: Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:46 am

Why are you all bunched up about this?
Haven't you noticed a trend with Pelmets daily postings?? Starting to look like a new nickynick or PDW...
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I guess I should write something here.
pelmet
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by pelmet »

Maynard wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:38 am
Heliian wrote: Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:46 am

Why are you all bunched up about this?
Haven't you noticed a trend with Pelmets daily postings?? Starting to look like a new nickynick or PDW...
Anything useful to add. I suppose like the last thread you commented on, the answer is no. Have you ever even posted anything useful?

But perhaps others can comment if my posting here is providing more info than Maynard or would you prefer his kind of postings?

You can look through this thread from last week as a typical example of someone who adds nothing but snide comments. If that is what people prefer, let me know. I'm just trying to bring up some interesting things to think about.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=122915&p=1031058#p1031058

What do others out there think?
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Last edited by pelmet on Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hamstandard
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by hamstandard »

[quote=pelmet post_id=1033718 time=1521160332 user_id=4697]
[quote=Maynard post_id=1033649 time=1521131913 user_id=20677]
[quote=Heliian post_id=1033489 time=1521031587 user_id=25449]


Why are you all bunched up about this?
[/quote]

Haven't you noticed a trend with Pelmets daily postings?? Starting to look like a new nickynick or PDW...
[/quote]

Anything useful to add. I suppose like the last thread you commented on, the answer is no. Have you ever even posted anything useful?

But perhaps others can comment if my posting here is providing more info than Maynard or would you prefer his kind of postings?

You can look through this thread from last week as a typical example of someone who adds nothing but snide comments. If that is what people prefer, let me know. I'm just trying to bring up some interesting things to think about.

What do others out there think?
[/quote]

Maynard sound like one of those complete dorks that we unfortunately all run into sometimes. Adds nothing with his posts and just make stupid comments. What a complete dipshit. Go somewhere else unless you have something to add to the thread. And hopefully the mods can delete the last three posts so we can get back on something more important, like the subject of the thread.
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Aviatard
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Re: Another example of the bad info pilots can be given

Post by Aviatard »

hamstandard wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:51 am Go somewhere else unless you have something to add to the thread. And hopefully the mods can delete the last three posts so we can get back on something more important, like the subject of the thread.
The irony of this post made me giggle. I realize I've added nothing to this thread, though.
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