American Express (Premium Plaza) Lounge will now require a boarding pass

[Rockie]

They aren’t AMEX lounges Justwork, they are separate companies that AMEX pays a fee to when one of AMEX’s customers uses it. Those lounges and AMEX did honour that arrangement for crews for a long time whatever the written rule was. I didn’t know nor did I care that they would change their minds one day. It was good while it lasted.

They weren’t free meals either, you apparently don’t know what that card costs or the concept of indirect payment. You can also count me as one of those “stuffing their faces” on a short turnaround. Day 4 away from home in the middle of a multi-sector 12 hour day and it’s a welcome meal indeed despite how fast you have to eat it. Take your holier than thou attitude and shove it.

Impact.

I can think of far worse examples of “special kind of stupid” than that.

[Impact]

Impact.

I can think of far worse examples of “special kind of stupid” than that.

So can I, but that doesn't negate the validity of the example I gave. Even our Gov't agrees:

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.ns ... 02654.html

I'm curious. Is a person entitled to not pay a speeding ticket just because he/she was not pulled over by a police officer in the past? Your thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

[Rockie]

Not at all Impact. The other side of that coin is that as long as speeders aren’t pulled over nobody should be surprised at people speeding. Nor do the police tell people to speed because they won’t be pulled over. AMEX’s salespeople made a good amount of money telling crews to “speed”.

[justwork]

They aren’t AMEX lounges Justwork, they are separate companies that AMEX pays a fee to when one of AMEX’s customers uses it. Those lounges and AMEX did honour that arrangement for crews for a long time whatever the written rule was. I didn’t know nor did I care that they would change their minds one day. It was good while it lasted.

They weren’t free meals either, you apparently don’t know what that card costs or the concept of indirect payment. You can also count me as one of those “stuffing their faces” on a short turnaround. Day 4 away from home in the middle of a multi-sector 12 hour day and it’s a welcome meal indeed despite how fast you have to eat it. Take your holier than thou attitude and shove it.

Impact.

I can think of far worse examples of “special kind of stupid” than that.

I think I had heard the cards were like $750, and something in the ball park of $200 for additional cards. I am also aware they're not amex lounges. Which further strengthens my position on how stupid someone would have to be to actually think amex would allow that blatant abuse to continue. Day 4 of a multi sector 12 hour day, the wolds smallest violin is playing for you. We all have days like that, we all survive, some thrive, and not in a lounge where the travel public is wondering "is that Air Canada pilot really stuffing his face full of boiled eggs and filling his thermos with coffee in here, well he must be on day 4 of a 12 hour multi sector suck fest.... blah blah blah". Discussing this with you reminds me of a conversation I had with my 5 year old about why he had to wear his jacket today, even though it's the first day of spring.

[Impact]

Not at all Impact. The other side of that coin is that as long as speeders aren’t pulled over nobody should be surprised at people speeding. Nor do the police tell people to speed because they won’t be pulled over. AMEX’s salespeople made a good amount of money telling crews to “speed”.

Did the AMEX salespeople refuse potential cardholders the opportunity to read the "fine print"? If so, your argument may actually be somewhat valid. Can you provide any examples of that happening?

I'm glad we're on the same page regarding the speeding analogy however. Things are looking up! I'm still finding it a bit unsettling that you are trying to off-load some of the responsibility for this debacle on the AMEX salespeople. But then again, we do live in a fairly liberal society, don't we?

[Rockie]

Maybe you were the stupid one to not take advantage of a good deal while it lasted justwork. Maybe you’re regretting it now that it’s over. In any case it doesn’t sound like you know much about it so feel free to keep your arrogant opinions to yourself, nobody feels obligated to get your approval.

Impact.

AMEX people sold that card as lounge access. Are you pretending to be the only person who didn’t notice? What debacle are you referring to as well? I see nothing here to rate the “debacle” descriptor, it’s just a lounge and a card. Try and keep things in perspective.

[Impact]

I still see that you are rationalizing your opinion, once again, by putting blame on people other than yourself. That's your prerogative, I suppose.

I do find it apropos that a new thread has just spooled up on "Professionalism". Perhaps you can chime in and give some advice and mentorship to some of the younger pilots on what it means to act professionally, and what honesty and integrity means to our so-called "profession".

[justwork]

Maybe you were the stupid one to not take advantage of a good deal while it lasted justwork. Maybe you’re regretting it now that it’s over.

Not at all, because as someone with a brain in my head I could see that this was clearly an abuse of that credit card to gain access to a second rate lounge.

It’s amazing what a “no thanks” does when the people contracted by Amex barf their pitch, I suggest you try it before you get suckered into another easily avoidable scam. However, since they got you before, you might be labeled an easy target to them. So it would likely be easier for you to just ignore them and keep walking. Maybe put on some headphones as to give the appearance that they can’t be heard.

[Rockie]

A couple of comments about professionalism, abuse, honesty and integrity here. Once again this card was aggressively hawked to crews by AMEX on the basis of lounge access. For several years crews were given access as the hawkers promised. As I never witnessed inappropriate behaviour I can only surmise AMEX decided they were victims of their own success and changed their mind.

I suggest you keep your opinions to yourselves at work because chances are the people you fly with have that card and will not appreciate being called unprofessional and dishonest by a couple of arrogant jerks.

[justwork]

I'm sorry for hurting your feelings Rockie.

[Rockie]

I’ve been in this business a very long time just work, you’ll have to take my word for it that you are not capable of hurting my feelings. Your arrogance will not endear you to your co-workers or earn you their respect, but I’m guessing that’s not a concern of yours.

[justwork]

I’ve been in this business a very long time just work, you’ll have to take my word for it that you are not capable of hurting my feelings. Your arrogance will not endear you to your co-workers but I’m guessing that’s not a concern of yours.

You're right, it's not. Most of my co-workers and former co-workers are good friends of mine. But I'm not afraid to call a duck a duck. I think if you actually took an objective look at this situation you would actually agree with me. I could play the same game as you if I wanted. I mean who likes to fly with a guy who is always right, even when he's dead wrong.

[Rockie]

Try an experiment then. Tell your friends and co-workers to their face you think they lack integrity and professionism. Run inside the lounge and tell the manager you think he's running a second rate operation. Stand outside the lounge and tell anybody passing you in uniform they are abusing the system, are dishonest, and are a special kind of stupid.

Report back.

[altiplano]

Get over it Rockie. It's the deal you made and you know it.

You might not like it, that they're not letting it slide anymore, but you knew it was the deal.

[justwork]

Try an experiment then. Tell your friends and co-workers to their face you think they lack integrity and professionism. Run inside the lounge and tell the manager you think he's running a second rate operation. Stand outside the lounge and tell anybody passing you in uniform they are abusing the system, are dishonest, and are a special kind of stupid.

Report back.

The thing is, none of my friends were duped by the geniuses at the credit card desk. I can’t go into the lounge to discuss it’s short comings with the manager because I’m not a member. Standing outside the lounge shouting will surely have me escorted away. All of what you mentioned is also petty and unprofessional.

I am traveling today though, and I have a few hours between my flights. I’ll also be spending that time at the air canada lounge. The international AC lounge in Montreal is actually pretty nice.

[Rockie]

Pay attention Altiplano. Show me where I take issue with the informal policy changing.

[Rockie]

The thing is, none of my friends were duped by the geniuses at the credit card desk.

Right.

I can’t go into the lounge to discuss it’s short comings with the manager because I’m not a member.

Sure you can, just ask at the desk to speak to the manager. They're very friendly there. BTW, if you're not a member how do you know it's second rate?

tanding outside the lounge shouting will surely have me escorted away.

I didn't say shout. Speak as quietly as you want so as not to make a scene, but say the words.

All of what you mentioned is also petty and unprofessional.

But saying it here isn't?

[justwork]

You seem upset.

[Rockie]

No, irritated at your presumptuous arrogance...but very calm. You aren't capable of getting me upset.

How about that experiment? Any other feeble excuses for not expressing your opinion to people's face?

[montado]

I was just at the YYZ lounge and tonnes of uniformed crew inside. Just curious if they are actually enforcing the not so enforced rule.