Huge discouragement

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goingnowherefast
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by goingnowherefast »

waterdog wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:44 amBe dressed appropriately for the interview, stand out.
Don't show up at "salty dog" float company in a suit and tie. Don't show up at Bearskin wearing jeans and a t-shirt. A good rule of thumb is to dress one level up from what will be required for the job.

When you visit in person or call to follow up, don't insist on talking when the person is clearly busy. Ask if there's a better time, otherwise you'll just piss them off and then you won't get the job for sure. Chief Pilots at small 703 companies are usually pretty busy people. When they say they're not hiring, they're probably not hiring. Reapply in 3 months.
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FICU
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by FICU »

Don't sit on your butt... hit the road. A 250 hour pilot is a 250 hour pilot. You will be hired based on you not your logbook.
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tsukubacpe
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by tsukubacpe »

Thanks again guys. Great tips!
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FICU
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by FICU »

FWIW I didn't send out a single CV. I visited with Chief pilots and left my CV and an impression. 14,000 km on the road... 19 years ago and it's been a great career so far.

Good luck!
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timeflies
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by timeflies »

i'Ve been in your shoes before as well as many of pilots that read this i am sure.. let me tell you that it's easy being discouraged after sending 500+cv from your comfortable home waiting for a call. did you actually think that youll get a job straight after 250 hours just after sending your resume online and thats it? that doesnt work with the aviation gods.

that is not discouragement at all. most of the 703-704 operators dont even care about emails .. you're going to have to call them, to go meet them in person and show them that you are WILLING to do the extra mile to get the job.

be hungry for the job and show it to chief pilot i am sure youll get one in 6 months. good luck and always be grateful being in this generation.. before you needed 5000 hr to be a copilot on a Navajo.

A
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altiplano
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by altiplano »

Right time. Right place. Making connections.

You have nothing to offer them with just a resume emailed. They won't look at it again. Follow up with a phone call or visit.

Be persistent. I got my first job because I targeted an operator with a history of hiring low timers, visited often, and got to know the CP.
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bring me the horizon
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by bring me the horizon »

I got my first job with 220 hours and sending emails and that was in 2014. I would have done the road trip but I was broke after getting my cpl and float rating. I send out about 200-300 emails with custom tailored cover letters and resumes in early January and received 6 call backs within the week. Perhaps it's your resume that's not setting you apart from all the other 250 hour wonders applying for the same job. I had the advantage of being mechanically inclined since I was an AME and had lots of experience working with small engine repair shops and construction companies in my youth.

Know your prospective employer. If you're applying for a bush gig flying a clapped out 180 on floats, include that you enjoy fishing, hunting and being outdoors. Think ahead and know what will be expected of you. Keep your resume one-page, plain and simple. Include your references on the same page. If you don't have much else to offer; grab a pair of carhartts, headset, mobile printer and hit the road! Now's the time. The season starts in 2 weeks.
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co-joe
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by co-joe »

Re: Whats the best way to hand in a resume?

#15 Post by just curious » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:13 pm
Pick a company.
Using the correct spelling of both the company name and the CP's name, send a resume via email with a cover letter tailored to that company, and your
Resume. See the sticky above regarding resume and cover letter advise.

Wait a week. Try and phone to confirm receipt. Send updates once a month or on significant change.

Email prior, but explain that you are doing a road trip, and would appreciate 5 minutes of somebody's valuable time.

Stop by, dressed like pilots dress in the company. Have a resume, licence copy
and all that good stuff ready.

Try hard to network so that someone in the company can walk you into the CP's office.
Try not to fart, burp or drool in the office.
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co-joe
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by co-joe »

180 wrote: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:57 am In this day and age of instant gratification and high-speed technology, it's the 9 X 12 manila envelope with a hand written address, addressed to the owner/chief pilot with his/her name spelled correctly that's going to stand out in the pile.

Many moons ago, I targeted the two dozen float operators I was interested in applying with. I cold called each operation one by one and explained to whomever answered the phone that I was mailing off a resume and wanted to make sure I addressed it to the right person (owner/chief pilot/HR) and double checked the spelling of their names. I then put my one page cover letter (each cover letter personalized to the correct contact person and the actual company, not 'To Whom It May Concern' , and 'I'd like to work for your company') and my one page resume (triple checked for typos, proof read by a dozen friends/family) in said manila envelope, stuck a stamp on it and mailed it off. I then waited 10 days and followed up each resume with a phone call to the correct person to confirm that they received it, and also to say I was going to be driving through their neck of the woods on a road trip in 2 weeks time, and would it be OK to stop in and introduce myself in person. 2 weeks later, I started my road trip, and the day before I reached each base, I made a second phone call to let them know I would be passing through tomorrow and was there a time of day that was most convenient for them.

Needless to say, I made some great contacts across the country, got the inside scoop on most of the operators on my list from the horse's mouths, was offered multiple jobs, and finally accepted with the operator that I felt was best suited for me. (The one where I had a good vibe from the boss, a good vibe from the staff, had nice clean machines, decent pay, decent location, etc.)

Since then, I've been the Chief Pilot and I've been the Ops Manager, and knowing what I know now, and having learned from what I learned then, if I had to do it all over again, I would do it exactly the same way.

To answer your question, the best way to hand in your resume is in as personal and as unique a way as possible, without going over the top.

I've heard of the resume stapled to a pizza box delivered to the chief pilot at lunch. (It worked.)

I've heard of the low time guy who stuck a pack of gum in each envelope with his resume. (When he phoned to follow up with the Chief Pilot, there was no question which resume was his...very memorable.)

Once I had accumulated 1000 hours PIC on floats, I attached a Top-5 list of 'why you should hire me' to a bottle of single-malt and left it where the owner of my first-choice operation would find it after work one Friday. (It worked in getting my dream job, and I'm still there almost a decade later.)

Good luck!
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co-joe
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by co-joe »

Not trying to bore you with searches I did, but god dammit there is some great advice here that gets lost in the shuffle. Best advice is search Just Curious posts on job hunt, road trip, job search, etc. He was a long time contributor here who sadly perished in a Twin Otter in Antarctica 5 years ago. He honestly took a genuine interest in seeing young pilots succeed and had some of the best advice I've ever come across. There was one specific post of his I was looking for about road trips that I just can't seem to find, gotta run some errands and but look later for you.

The key points are call, call, call. What's the chief pilot's name? Will he/ she take calls from young low time pilots? I'd love to come check out your operation, will they be around monday and maybe give me 5 minutes?

Send, send, send resumes.

Follow up calls.

Most important are road trips. Bring work gloves that look used (drag them behind your car if necessary). Wear working clothes but look presentable and appropriate to the operation. (requires research). Having a trade or other skills (like playing goal with a good save percentage) might help small companies. Having college education might hurt your chances at some and bolster them at others.

keep in touch. No only means not today.

Be persistent but don't be a pest.
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Jack Klumpus
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by Jack Klumpus »

Be at the right place at the right time. So...

Be everywhere, all the time!
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

I have 30 yrs in the industry and I can say conclusively that for the first time ever there is well and truly a “pilot shortage” in that there is more jobs than good prospect 200 hr brand new CPL’s.

By good prospect, I mean guys or gals that took the flight training seriously, that did significantly more than the bare minimum to pass the written and flight tests, that show up for the interview prepared and with a good attitude and work ethic.

Anybody who can’t get a job today needs to take a serious look at themselves because it doesn’t get better than this in terms of opportunities to get started in commercial aviation.
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HansDietrich
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by HansDietrich »

tsukubacpe wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:17 pm I haven't even been offered a ramp position....not that I would take it because I believe and still have high hopes of landing my first job flying but man this is crazy.
It seems to me that you feel you're more entitled than the rest. I hope I'm wrong. Why wouldn't you take a ramp job? What exactly sets you apart from the rest of the 200 - 250 hr pilots? Why should someone hire you?

Most of us older guys paid our dues and started on the ramp, worked in the North, flew shitty NDB approaches on a daily basis and didn't have an auto pilot on our first plane... or second... or third...

This story is nothing new. Get your @$$ out of the road and start knocking on doors. Also, where are your friends? One of the things I've always been told and keep on telling people: "Make friends in aviation. They'll be the ones that will put in a good word for you, so you can get that first job. Most of my pilot buddies and also myself got jobs by knowing people. Were you the guy that always bragged about how your first job will be right seat of a Q400 at Porter?
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

HansDietrich wrote: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:29 am
Also, where are your friends? One of the things I've always been told and keep on telling people: "Make friends in aviation. They'll be the ones that will put in a good word for you, so you can get that first job. Most of my pilot buddies and also myself got jobs by knowing people.
/\ What he said. I flew for 5 different companies and every one was a result of a referral from somebody who knew me.
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North Shore
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by North Shore »

co-joe wrote: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:32 pm Not trying to bore you with searches I did, but god dammit there is some great advice here that gets lost in the shuffle. Best advice is search Just Curious posts on job hunt, road trip, job search, etc. He was a long time contributor here who sadly perished in a Twin Otter in Antarctica 5 years ago. He honestly took a genuine interest in seeing young pilots succeed and had some of the best advice I've ever come across. There was one specific post of his I was looking for about road trips that I just can't seem to find, gotta run some errands and but look later for you.
Try this thread: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=78703 Post #5 is a cut/paste I did of one of the better ones..
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by mixturerich »

Road trip got me and many other friends our first jobs. Be friendly and the people you meet along the way at each operator will help point you in the right direction. Also, hassle NorthWright for a job. They are always looking for people and it’s a great place to get started. Quick time to flight line. Not to mention grab that coveted PIC time on the C206/207 right out of the gates. And there’s no bond for the Cessnas either.
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co-joe
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by co-joe »

To North Shore you listen. Smart is he.
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tsukubacpe
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by tsukubacpe »

Major Update: Had a phone interview with a 703 operator on Friday. Just received letter of employment!!

Thank you all for the nice words of encouragement. I hope this helps and motivates others on their journey.
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DanWEC
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by DanWEC »

Great!! Enjoy it. Reflect on how lucky you are Every. Single. Time that you break through the top.

That'll keep you going when others get you down.
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FICU
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Re: Huge discouragement

Post by FICU »

A phone interview... how times have changed.

Congrats and enjoy the ride!
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