Buffalo again

[square]

Yeah don't work there. You can work anywhere. Arctic Sunwest and Air Tindi are I think great companies with a really good safety culture and upgrade opportunities.

Joe is a goddamn lunatic. I used to work out of the NWT and my boss had been partners with him long before and said, one time Joe vapour locked a Baron in Lutselke/Snowdrift and couldnt get the second engine started so he just departed with the one. I used to fly to YK same time as he would arrive, managed to pass him due to upper winds on the way in, he taxied by giving the finger out the cockpit window to me and all my passengers and crew. Then went and balled out the controllers, who then had to give us S turns to make sure he won the next race. LOL.

Another time we went in there IFR, shot the ILS for, I think it's 34? down to minimums, had nothing and did a missed approach, he was right behind us VFR, controller asked him what he wanted to do traffic ahead did a missed approach, he went in for the other runway! No precision approach. Said he would go to the beacon and hook it in visual, made it in.

Another friend of mine used to work there, loved it! Going to all these ice strips you know with buckets of oil to get back, lol which is fine, til he got to be the senior copilot and had do to the sched, Hay River to YK in the AM then back in the PM, with Joe. He said anytime he would ask him a question about what he wanted to do going into YK or anything about the flight, Joe would switch on the pilot isolation (intercom off.)


The guy is not a good place to be around

I guess you haven't read the previous posts. The topic of this post is speculation on what it's like working for Buffalo. As previously stated, Joe doesn't have a say in what goes on there and he hardly flies at all anymore. Anyways, takes a minute to read some post. Again, Buffalo has gone through some major changes and their operation is completely legit these days. Conditions and responsibilities for the pilots have changed for the better and nobody works any more than any other company as per duty time regs. Plus once you start flying, which is only a matter of months now since they hire ground personnel who aren't pilots waiting to fly, the pay is great.

On top of that, safety records? How many fatalities do those companies that you mention have on their records? How many does Buffalo have? I know this is a controversial subject and depending what aspect you are looking at to determine what's safe could make you think one way or another but saying Buffalo is unsafe is just an uneducated statement.

Edited for spelling

Oh okay that's good news then

[Eric Janson]

Yeah don't work there. You can work anywhere. Arctic Sunwest and Air Tindi are I think great companies with a really good safety culture and upgrade opportunities.

Joe is a goddamn lunatic. I used to work out of the NWT and my boss had been partners with him long before and said, one time Joe vapour locked a Baron in Lutselke/Snowdrift and couldnt get the second engine started so he just departed with the one. I used to fly to YK same time as he would arrive, managed to pass him due to upper winds on the way in, he taxied by giving the finger out the cockpit window to me and all my passengers and crew. Then went and balled out the controllers, who then had to give us S turns to make sure he won the next race. LOL.

Another time we went in there IFR, shot the ILS for, I think it's 34? down to minimums, had nothing and did a missed approach, he was right behind us VFR, controller asked him what he wanted to do traffic ahead did a missed approach, he went in for the other runway! No precision approach. Said he would go to the beacon and hook it in visual, made it in.

Another friend of mine used to work there, loved it! Going to all these ice strips you know with buckets of oil to get back, lol which is fine, til he got to be the senior copilot and had do to the sched, Hay River to YK in the AM then back in the PM, with Joe. He said anytime he would ask him a question about what he wanted to do going into YK or anything about the flight, Joe would switch on the pilot isolation (intercom off.)

The guy is not a good place to be around

Care to name your Boss who used to be partners with Joe?

There is no 'beacon' on the other side of the ILS in Yellowknife.

I have over 1000 hours as Joe's F/O - never experienced anything remotely like your 'stories'.

[Maynard]

My first job was flying a 207. (11 years ago) I was hired as a “Pilot”. Do you think I just flew my sched/charter and then went home and drank at 4pm? When not flying I:

-Towed airplanes around, hangar shuffling
-Washed/groomed my and others planes
-Drove around company truck to pick up parts
-Swamped for the float drivers
-Fueled and loaded my and others planes
-Flight followed
-Didn’t complain.

None of those duties were in the job description, they were just duties that everyone had and did whether you were a pilot, mechanic, rampie, or owner. Get over yourself. Just because you hold a “Pilots” license doesn’t mean you’ve earned the right to be a lazy F*ck.

[Eric Janson]

Thanks for posting Maynard. Nice to see there are still people like you in this Business.

Your post is a welcome change from 'the World owes me a job' entitled Millenials who expect everything to be provided for them without any effort on their part.

[C.W.E.]

I also like what Maynard had to say because it describes a real pilots attitude towards flying as an occupation.

[C.W.E.]

Hey ., what does the W stand for?

William.

[sstaurus]

Totally agree with Maynard. I had as much fun doing the 'other stuff' as flying in my beginning jobs. I got into aviation because I like everything around it, supporting the whole operation. Just flying the plane itself gets old after a while.

[square]

Yeah don't work there. You can work anywhere. Arctic Sunwest and Air Tindi are I think great companies with a really good safety culture and upgrade opportunities.

Joe is a goddamn lunatic. I used to work out of the NWT and my boss had been partners with him long before and said, one time Joe vapour locked a Baron in Lutselke/Snowdrift and couldnt get the second engine started so he just departed with the one. I used to fly to YK same time as he would arrive, managed to pass him due to upper winds on the way in, he taxied by giving the finger out the cockpit window to me and all my passengers and crew. Then went and balled out the controllers, who then had to give us S turns to make sure he won the next race. LOL.

Another time we went in there IFR, shot the ILS for, I think it's 34? down to minimums, had nothing and did a missed approach, he was right behind us VFR, controller asked him what he wanted to do traffic ahead did a missed approach, he went in for the other runway! No precision approach. Said he would go to the beacon and hook it in visual, made it in.

Another friend of mine used to work there, loved it! Going to all these ice strips you know with buckets of oil to get back, lol which is fine, til he got to be the senior copilot and had do to the sched, Hay River to YK in the AM then back in the PM, with Joe. He said anytime he would ask him a question about what he wanted to do going into YK or anything about the flight, Joe would switch on the pilot isolation (intercom off.)

The guy is not a good place to be around

Care to name your Boss who used to be partners with Joe?

There is no 'beacon' on the other side of the ILS in Yellowknife.

I have over 1000 hours as Joe's F/O - never experienced anything remotely like your 'stories'.

Ok, it was Terry Harrold. The beacon is on final for, what it is 34? He used it as a downwind reference for the other runway, 27? It's been a while since I was in YK so I don't know the runway numbers but my "stories" are true.

[TheRealMcCoy]

People just want the easy way in, nobody wants to work for anything anymore. I think working the ramp is an excellent way to humble any individual, takes them off their high horse of graduating flight school.

[Zaibatsu]

No pilot would ever choose ramp over flying if given the choice, period.

Nobody without a pilot’s licence would move up to Yellowknife or Hay River to work endless days for minimum wage to be a rampie, period.

[Rowdy]

As a youngster, I spent a bit of time in YZF. Dad went up when things went sideways at AC and flew the twotter for a bit with his best friend. I got to ride around in the 6 and the 185 a bunch. Probably why I yearned to spend most of my early career on floats. Who knows.

Joe was super interesting for a 7yr old. I distinctly remember standing on the ramp watching one of the 'new' king airs (Had to be Ptarmigans as it was bright yellow) taxi in with Joe and he smiled and said 'Turbines are just a fad kiddo'. He always treated me well and I remember a lot of laughs and antics. Although I never did work for him. I've had quite a few buddies who have.

Mikey and I are pretty close in age, and when I was up there with a beaver many moons ago and couldn't find any oil for a 100hr.. he helped me out no questions asked.

I was never adverse to all the other aspects of flying in the north as many of my peers were. Some complained endlessly about loading, fuelling, preheating etc. I think it's those characters who have nothing but bad things to say about Joe and Buffalo.

[TheRealMcCoy]

No pilot would ever choose ramp over flying if given the choice, period.

Nobody without a pilot’s licence would move up to Yellowknife or Hay River to work endless days for minimum wage to be a rampie, period.

Sure.

And you think a red seal electrician went right away into wiring up fancy buildings? Or do you think he had to spend a good amount of time just pulling heavy wire through an old commercial building?

Do you think a driller got to make hole without having to be a leasehand/roughneck for a while?

Take the ramp experience as a learning time, you learn all the aspects of dealing with the aircraft so that when you start flying it all you have to concentrate on is flying because loading, fueling, de-icing, tenting, dealing with locals, is all second nature.

There is a very big gap in quality to those who had to pay their dues compared to those who didn't.

Hell, even just being a trucker you have to earn some time doing boring jobs before you can go low bedding, logging, etc.

[digits_]

Hell, even just being a trucker you have to earn some time doing boring jobs before you can go low bedding, logging, etc.

Yup, that's why you FLY at least a 172 or 206 or even right seat king air as a pilot before you go to the airlines or be a 703/704 multi crew captain, even in this hiring climate. Fuelling, tenting up, loading etc is all fine, as long as you also fly the airplane. If you don't, and you are just being used as cheap labor, something's wrong.

[C-GGGQ]

The difference between that electrician pulling cable and that trucker "paying his dues" before going low bed is that I'm still working (and getting paid as) an electrician or trucker. Still running wire, or still driving. Not working min wage unskilled labour. Earning your dues would still be flying. Just not flying turbine etc. Flying jumpers or banners or smaller twins/ floats. "Specializing" would equal your atpl. Turbines, 12,500+, jets etc.

[TheRealMcCoy]

Yup, that's why you FLY at least a 172 or 206 or even right seat king air as a pilot before you go to the airlines or be a 703/704 multi crew captain, even in this hiring climate. Fuelling, tenting up, loading etc is all fine, as long as you also fly the airplane. If you don't, and you are just being used as cheap labor, something's wrong.

And if you can land that gig, give're.

The difference between that electrician pulling cable and that trucker "paying his dues" before going low bed is that I'm still working (and getting paid as) an electrician or trucker. Still running wire, or still driving. Not working min wage unskilled labour. Earning your dues would still be flying. Just not flying turbine etc. Flying jumpers or banners or smaller twins/ floats. "Specializing" would equal your atpl. Turbines, 12,500+, jets etc.

And just because everyone wants or thinks that they should be getting paid to fly planes out of flight school, doesn't mean that that is in fact reality. If it were reality you wouldn't have all the kids here complaining about having to work the ramp. Like I said, if you can get the flying gig right away take it. But the 6 months to a year you spend looking for a job online (because lets face it these aren't the type to pack up everything and go for a drive) you could be at least learning stuff within the aviation industry instead of sitting at home jerking off.

And fwiw I made waaaaaaay more money as a rampie than I do flying planes right meow, because I had a schedule.

[Zaibatsu]

I never worked ramp. I did menial jobs in aviation outside of flying, but it didn’t come with a carrot.

It’s not paying dues, it’s slave labour and it does nothing to further a career. It would be like expecting resident doctors to scrub toilets or articling clerk to wash partners’ cars. Throwing bags and driving a forklift doesn’t do anything to improve your piloting skills, and in the meantime your actual piloting skills are atrophying.

And if you made way more money ramping, why aren’t you still ramping?

[Donald]

You make many good posts on here Rowdy, and I respect you for that.

But this part right here, you got wrong:

I was never adverse to all the other aspects of flying in the north as many of my peers were. Some complained endlessly about loading, fuelling, preheating etc. I think it's those characters who have nothing but bad things to say about Joe and Buffalo.

It seems in aviation that people like to normalize their behaviours and ostracize anyone who criticizes them, whether justified or not. Just because one person doesn't mind doing a particular job or using certain methods to accomplish a goal, doesn't make it right. And it doesn't necessarily make the person who points out what is wrong, a complainer. However, in aviation, if you weren't willing to do "it"*, you were considered less-than-worthy.

I get that Joe and Mikey are personal friends of yours, so you may be offended by negative views of their operation. If the only complaint was about "loading, fuelling, and preheating", wouldn't there be a similar level of complaints about Tindi/Summit/ASC (back in the day)/NWAL, etc etc? Maybe the issues at Buffalo run a little deeper.

[Donald]

Looks like more problems at Buffalo:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/yel ... -1.4624247

[Rowdy]

No offence taken Donald..I never worked there and never will. Nor am I standing up for the operation.

There is piles of complaining from folk elsewhere, it just doesn't get the exposure that Buffalo does. Maybe has something to do with the yelling/firing and TV show..

[square]

It would be like expecting resident doctors to scrub toilets or articling clerk to wash partners’ cars. Throwing bags and driving a forklift doesn’t do anything to improve your piloting skills, and in the meantime your actual piloting skills are atrophying.

Ah no this isn't true. It would be more like the rampy is a nurse or a paralegal. The co-pilot would be the resident doctor prepping an OR or supervising nurses, or a clerk proofing paralegals work and filing briefs at the court.

It's extremely relevant what happens in ground operations at an airline. If the aircraft isn't towed, fueled, loaded and de-iced properly it's a huge issue. The captain will typically be flight planning while the FO handles the ground crew/ops in a 704 or small 705 operation. 703 one guy just does everything. None of that shit gets taught in flight schools at all and it's why rampies make way better FO's than instructors. They already know how to manage the rampies there because they know what the rampy is supposed to be doing. It's the most important part of their job.

Flying around talking on the radio and flying approaches is super important and it's nice that they're afforded an opportunity to learn a trade that will set them up for life but, lol, we don't actually need them for that.